Southwestern PA still RED

[Denis Lemiuex]

1 hour ago, The King said:

There are a few junior leagues and small in house leagues that run independent. But no USA hockey team is permitted to schedule and play games against non-USA hockey affiliates teams. Which means, if you want to operate outside of the monopoly, you can only play teams on the outside. Who will pay for that? If you have the time, finances, and determination to build, you could do it over time. Part of how they sell the importance of USA hockey registration is the insurance. Anyone that has seen that joke of a process play out can tell you it protects USA hockey more than it protects the members. They also use this against the rinks. If a rink allows non USA hockey entities to use their rink, they CAN restrict or ban USA hockey members from using the facilities. Again, it’s a monopoly that may be catching up to them some time in the near future. 

If it is so bad. Twenty, 30, ,40, 50 more would have booked by now. Not too hard get so many of these fed up organizations in a room to leave for AAU. The reason is USA Hockey isn't as bad as people think. The real problem with USA Hockey is idiot parents screw things up.

Case in point. About 20 years ago they tried to put the skids on the proliferation of AAA teams. Their solution was to "award" each area with a cap on AAA teams. People screamed even though the real AAA players on teams that would have been eliminated would easily have found a new home. But what was good for the game and especially the families playing revolted. So instead of having 60 0r 70 AAA team we are approaching 200.

WPA was awarded 2 teams - AM Pens and the Hornets. The Stars (prior to esmark) and Phantoms were told to drop down to AA. People revolted. What do we have now? And guess what. I've seen a bunch of these AAA teams and WPA only have enough AAA players to field 2 teams. But 5 organizations and SSA (who has to resort to recruiting players outside of the region) and a ton of AA/AAA hybrid programs. So about 60 percent of these people are being sold a bill of goods, spending thousands for that extra A. Costing their kids an opportunity to enjoy their HS years instead of sitting in hotel rooms most weekends.

Before blaming USA Hockey. Think about what you want to change and see if you think it would be changed. Basically. USA Hockey is exactly what its membership wants it to be,

[Wes]

54 minutes ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

If it is so bad. Twenty, 30, ,40, 50 more would have booked by now. Not too hard get so many of these fed up organizations in a room to leave for AAU. The reason is USA Hockey isn't as bad as people think. The real problem with USA Hockey is idiot parents screw things up.

Case in point. About 20 years ago they tried to put the skids on the proliferation of AAA teams. Their solution was to "award" each area with a cap on AAA teams. People screamed even though the real AAA players on teams that would have been eliminated would easily have found a new home. But what was good for the game and especially the families playing revolted. So instead of having 60 0r 70 AAA team we are approaching 200.

WPA was awarded 2 teams - AM Pens and the Hornets. The Stars (prior to esmark) and Phantoms were told to drop down to AA. People revolted. What do we have now? And guess what. I've seen a bunch of these AAA teams and WPA only have enough AAA players to field 2 teams. But 5 organizations and SSA (who has to resort to recruiting players outside of the region) and a ton of AA/AAA hybrid programs. So about 60 percent of these people are being sold a bill of goods, spending thousands for that extra A. Costing their kids an opportunity to enjoy their HS years instead of sitting in hotel rooms most weekends.

Before blaming USA Hockey. Think about what you want to change and see if you think it would be changed. Basically. USA Hockey is exactly what its membership wants it to be,

Amen to this:

 I've seen a bunch of these AAA teams and WPA only have enough AAA players to field 2 teams. But 5 organizations and SSA (who has to resort to recruiting players outside of the region) and a ton of AA/AAA hybrid programs. So about 60 percent of these people are being sold a bill of goods, spending thousands for that extra A. Costing their kids an opportunity to enjoy their HS years instead of sitting in hotel rooms most weekends.

[ctil20]

I don’t think many people necessarily care who has been the better entity between USA hockey and AAU. If people can get their kids playing again under AAU, USA hockey is done for. 
 

If rinks are open for business and USA hockey cancels the season, does anyone actually think the rinks will fall in line with that? As mentioned, rinks will have up “enter at your own risk” signs and liability waivers. Then they will proceed to sell ice to whoever wants to buy it. 

With all of that said I think the lawsuit angle is not realistic. How would one even prove that someone else they encountered at an ice rink is the person that got them ill. This is akin to suing giant eagle because they are open, and you think you acquired the sickness there. I don’t think there’s a single legal leg to stand on when it comes to someone getting sick from entering your place of business. There are no amount of forensics that can determine whether you got sick from an ice rink, or if someone sneezed out of his car window at a red light and the particles entered your vehicle. 
 

 

Either way, if rinks are allowed to open, there will be hockey. Whether USA hockey permits it or not. No rink owner is going to let his investment turn into a bankruptcy because USA hockey told him he can’t have hockey there, while the federal government says he can. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by ctil20

[Danner27]

2 minutes ago, ctil20 said:

I don’t think many people necessarily care who has been the better entity between USA hockey and AAU. If people can get their kids playing again under AAU, USA hockey is done for. 
 

If rinks are open for business and USA hockey cancels the season, does anyone actually think the rinks will fall in line with that? As mentioned, rinks will have up “enter at your own risk” signs and liability waivers. Then they will proceed to sell ice to whoever wants to buy it. 

With all of that said I think the lawsuit angle is not realistic. How would one even prove that someone else they encountered at an ice rink is the person that got them ill. This is akin to suing giant eagle because they are open, and you think you acquired the sickness there. I don’t think there’s a single legal leg to stand on when it comes to someone getting sick from entering your place of business. There are no amount of forensics that can determine whether you got sick from an ice rink, or if someone sneezed out of his car window at a red light and the particles entered your vehicle. 

Do you know what it cost to run a rink ? Rinks will not open if their main tenants are not buying ice, they probably need to be 75% booked to break even. The rinks that makes money are the ones that also run club teams. 

[ctil20]

14 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Do you know what it cost to run a rink ? Rinks will not open if their main tenants are not buying ice, they probably need to be 75% booked to break even. The rinks that makes money are the ones that also run club teams. 

Did you not read what I wrote? 
 

If the federal government says rinks can open, but USA hockey cancels the season, people, organizations etc are just going to break away from USA hockey and purchase the ice. 

As I mentioned in a previous post, there will be a rogue governing body ready to take the reigns before the USA hockey canceled season email makes the “swoosh” sent sound. 
 

The people make the hockey world go around, not USA hockey. USA hockey simply has just organizes the rules and gets paid. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by ctil20

[hockey55]

Rumor has it there’s a rink open already in the Pittsburgh area  

[ctil20]

1 minute ago, hockey55 said:

Rumor has it there’s a rink open already in the Pittsburgh area  

Which one 

[Danner27]

23 minutes ago, ctil20 said:

Did you not read what I wrote? 
 

If the federal government says rinks can open, but USA hockey cancels the season, people, organizations etc are just going to break away from USA hockey and purchase the ice. 

As I mentioned in a previous post, there will be a rogue governing body ready to take the reigns before the USA hockey canceled season email makes the “swoosh” sent sound. 
 

The people make the hockey world go around, not USA hockey. USA hockey simply has just organizes the rules and gets paid. 

Ugh no they won’t, USA hockey CONTROLS the rinks customers. Maybe king Ralph goes against the grain for the predators due to owing both but they won’t have anyone to play. Truth being, I doubt he would even go against USA hockey but who knows. 

[ctil20]

Right, rinks will choose to lose everything. Owners will go bankrupt and potentially have it effect the livelihood of their families. 
 

I’m not having this conversation any longer. If the government allows rinks to operate, and USA hockey does not allow organizations to have a season. Some, if not all organizations will play under another entity. 
 

[Denis Lemiuex]

So when USA Hockey proposed to limit the number of AAA teams 20 years ago. Everyone was happy and it passed. Thank god. If it didn't we have 400 AAA teams.

USA Hockey wanted to eliminate Middle School hockey (it happens no where but here and that's why there's problem with the check/no check rule). Complete waste of resources but a fundraiser for each organization. I know. I was on the board and our MS team made money and subsidized the other teams.  USA Hockey told the PIHL it's bad for the sport and shut it down. Wait didn't happen either.

USA Hockey, just like all similar organizations respond to its members. Now I am not an idiot. USA Staff stay at 5 star hotels and probably have a $500 per day per diem and take fact finder tours all over the place. Waste is a problem and we all end up paying for it.

[ctil20]

Example: PA rinks are open, hockey season happens. Michigan rinks are closed, no hockey season. Michigan throws a fit about how unfair it is. Especially if someone notable has a kid playing in an area that has no hockey. 

Thats the only scenario I see USA hockey even attempting this if rinks are open for business. And even then they would get laughed at. 

Whatever the case, I think we all agree that USAH loves money. 
 

 

[hockey07]

2 hours ago, ctil20 said:

Which one 

pia had lessons today 

[BeaverFalls]

https://www.usahockey.com/news_article/show/1103731
 

 

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, ctil20 said:

Example: PA rinks are open, hockey season happens. Michigan rinks are closed, no hockey season. Michigan throws a fit about how unfair it is. Especially if someone notable has a kid playing in an area that has no hockey. 

Thats the only scenario I see USA hockey even attempting this if rinks are open for business. And even then they would get laughed at. 

Whatever the case, I think we all agree that USAH loves money. 
 

 

Give it up, you sounding like a squirt parent. Until USA hockey gives a green light nothing is happening. 

[ctil20]

51 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Give it up, you sounding like a squirt parent. Until USA hockey gives a green light nothing is happening. 

Yes, you’re right... rinks are going to bow down and lose it all because a youth sports organization said nobody can play hockey. 
 

Since you’re so inclined to tell me what I sound like, I’ll return the gesture. I’ve yet to see an intelligent or informed post from you here. You take all of this time out of your day to give your input here and it equates to nothing of value. You present no facts, and your opinions are akin to “that mother” in the stands screaming “show some class”. You are the board Karen. 
 

ta ta 

Edited May 5, 2020 by ctil20

[hockeyisgreat]

USA Hockey put out their Return to the Rink guidelines on their website. Basically sounds like they are leaving it up to the rinks based on State reopening. No mention of dates to allow tryouts.  At least they are thinking in the right direction.  Some of the things discussed here are in their guidelines. Like  suggesting that players dress at home and spend as little time at the rinks as possible. Limiting parents etc.

[BeaverFalls]

No parents would be great

[ctil20]

39 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

USA Hockey put out their Return to the Rink guidelines on their website. Basically sounds like they are leaving it up to the rinks based on State reopening. No mention of dates to allow tryouts.  At least they are thinking in the right direction.  Some of the things discussed here are in their guidelines. Like  suggesting that players dress at home and spend as little time at the rinks as possible. Limiting parents etc.

Precisely, because they don’t want to be the bad guy. It’s what I’ve been saying all along, despite clowns like Danner trying to contradict my point.
 

They aren’t going to be the bad guy in all of this. They will let the states do it.  

 

[nemesis8679]

4 hours ago, hockey07 said:

pia had lessons today 

Is that open to all the instructors now? Or just certain ones/or one? If that's the case, I can't see all the other instructors that have lost presumably  thousands of dollars being real thrilled. 

[Pucks11]

14 hours ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

Oh, And please no AAU hockey. There's a reason why it hasn't taken off. Some teams in MI but it is horribly run, has no concern about the players or even the sport. It is nothing more than a money maker. You can rail on USA Hockey and some of it is justified but I promise you it is 1000 times better than AAU.

From my experience AAU was 1,000 times better. We didn't have to deal with politics or huge expenses like we have faced in USA Hockey. My son played at a high level against BETTER teams. Most of the time in the SAME rinks. There was BETTER travel and tournaments, it was cheaper, you can play whoever you want even USA hockey teams(they just don't put it on their schedules to not get into trouble ?). There are actually a lot of teams that my son's teams have played over the last few years that have a USA Hockey registered team and then play under another name for AAU(it's BIG in the Buffalo area).

[Saucey]

9 hours ago, hockey07 said:

pia had lessons today 

That rink is so disgusting, they probably figure the kids already have immunity built up over the years of playing there.

All kidding aside, if true, you would have to be nuts to go there. They can't handle being clean in normal circumstances, you're gonna trust them to sanitize during a pandemic? No thanks. 

[Denis Lemiuex]

5 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

From my experience AAU was 1,000 times better. We didn't have to deal with politics or huge expenses like we have faced in USA Hockey. My son played at a high level against BETTER teams. Most of the time in the SAME rinks. There was BETTER travel and tournaments, it was cheaper, you can play whoever you want even USA hockey teams(they just don't put it on their schedules to not get into trouble ?). There are actually a lot of teams that my son's teams have played over the last few years that have a USA Hockey registered team and then play under another name for AAU(it's BIG in the Buffalo area).

Please name AAU players currently in USHL or college. Thank you

[BACKCHECKING]

[dazedandconfused]

1 hour ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

Please name AAU players currently in USHL or college.

Any player who played in any of the USPHL Junior leagues. This includes NCDC, Premier and Elite divisions. All are AAU sanctioned.

[Eddie Shore]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 11:36 PM, ctil20 said:

I don’t understand this logic here.

Let’s say we kept up business as usual. No social distancing, we all went about our lives. What do you think the infection and death rate would be then? 
 

That simple question completely overrides anything I’ve read here. 63,000 deaths to date with intense mitigation strategies. Just based on simple math, had we not shut down, we’d be talking millions of deaths. People like to site empty hospitals. Yes, because what we have been doing has worked most places. Short of a cess pool like NYC and some other overcrowded areas.

Your logic is flawed.  You are making the assumption that the infection rate is standardized.  It is not.  Over 65% of all cases are the elderly and nursing homes are hit the hardest.  News flash for you, those people don't go outside!  It has also been proven that hospitals get more insurance money if they code a case as COVID versus not (look it up from any news source).  Also, it has been proven that any death that occurs and the person had symptoms of COVID (ie a temperature) will be coded as COVID.  That means if I have a heart attack when I had a temperature, or were coughing it gets coded as COVID (straight out of the CDC guidelines).  These are facts, and they are undeniable.  Look up the flu deaths from the past years