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14 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Ohio opens for youth sports at the end of the month. 

Non-contact youth sports open in Ohio May 26. The governor mentioned this includes sports like tennis, golf, baseball.  He specifically said that there is no set date yet for contact sports including hockey, lacrosse, soccer.

What about if instead of 'hockey', rinks start doing skating skills sessions and the like and call it non-contact?  I don't know, I'll have to look at the fine print. But, he specifically mentioned hockey as not being included in those sports opening May 26 in his presser today.

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39 minutes ago, Loach said:

Non-contact youth sports open in Ohio May 26. The governor mentioned this includes sports like tennis, golf, baseball.  He specifically said that there is no set date yet for contact sports including hockey, lacrosse, soccer.

What about if instead of 'hockey', rinks start doing skating skills sessions and the like and call it non-contact?  I don't know, I'll have to look at the fine print. But, he specifically mentioned hockey as not being included in those sports opening May 26 in his presser today.

I assume that's exactly what's going to go on. There are no tryouts or games, but nothing about specifically nit having skating lessons, drills, or whatever with instructors. Or even having sticktimes- limited capacity, of course. But again, I wonder what the insurance situation is. Not to mention- if there is any aid available from the state for these businesses now or in the future, these business almost certainly wouldn't be eligible to receive it. Now, do the owners have the forethought to consider this? I have no idea. 

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8 hours ago, Loach said:

Non-contact youth sports open in Ohio May 26. The governor mentioned this includes sports like tennis, golf, baseball.  He specifically said that there is no set date yet for contact sports including hockey, lacrosse, soccer.

What about if instead of 'hockey', rinks start doing skating skills sessions and the like and call it non-contact?  I don't know, I'll have to look at the fine print. But, he specifically mentioned hockey as not being included in those sports opening May 26 in his presser today.

The rinks have been ready to go, I know a few people in Toledo that will start skating this weekend. Lessons, open skates and even beer league will start back up. 

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11 hours ago, Danner27 said:

The rinks have been ready to go, I know a few people in Toledo that will start skating this weekend. Lessons, open skates and even beer league will start back up. 

I can't speak to what's happening Toledo. But, I can guarantee there's no hockey or skating going on in Columbus now or this weekend. The rinks there are all owned by McConnell (owner of the NHL team - all the Chiller rinks) or OSU and I don't see them opening up before getting an official blessing from the governor and USA Hockey.

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2 hours ago, Loach said:

I can't speak to what's happening Toledo. But, I can guarantee there's no hockey or skating going on in Columbus now or this weekend. The rinks there are all owned by McConnell (owner of the NHL team - all the Chiller rinks) or OSU and I don't see them opening up before getting an official blessing from the governor and USA Hockey.

Columbus is on the list for places to watch for a hotspot. Alpha has opened up for practices this weekend if anyone was driving by the rink tonight would notice 

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On 5/15/2020 at 10:26 PM, hockey07 said:

Columbus is on the list for places to watch for a hotspot. Alpha has opened up for practices this weekend if anyone was driving by the rink tonight would notice 

I wonder for what teams? I haven't heard anything about renegades having their tryouts or anything, and nothing from school teams, either. 

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2 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

The rink posted they were reopening following CDC guidelines on their own website. I don't think it is a secret now. 

The CDC message was on the site before the state stay at home orders were put in place, and was just never removed. The website also has the newer message that says they are closed until further notice.

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My remarks pertaining to this situation, and I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this:

1) It's not right to censor someone saying a rink is open on this forum, when the rink is obviously relatively known to be open. If they are not supposed to be open, then that is their problem if people talk about it. 

2) Besides the obvious health concerns (and would waiting another month or two (or three) help prevent this virus from spreading again and possibly ruin part or all of next season?), my big problem with this is that the ones being hurt here are the kids that are following the rules or have parents that are following the rules. They are really being put at a disadvantage here. You are rewarding those who are not thinking of anyone but themselves (of course if they get sick or die- or spread it to at-risk family members- I guess that's not much of a reward). Actually, I have a huge problem with that. You can't keep your skills up with skating the way you could stay fresh with other sports- which, by the way, still aren't running organized practices. 

And by the same token, rinks that are going against rules shouldn't be being financially rewarded when other privately owned rinks are biting the bullet and complying as asked. 

3) are they, in fact, in compliance now that reopening has started? Does the non-contact/no games aspect of this allow them to operate (we'll leave aside the fact that it is virtually impossible to have hockey practice and still follow mask guidelines/social distancing? If not, does USA Hockey have any ability to not sanction arenas or teams, or fmgive them a general hard time, through certain means? 

 

This point of this post is not me saying shutdowns are right or wrong. Personally, I'm in the middle of both extremes. And ultimately believe what educated health officials say over politicians or CEO's. But aside from that, I'm just talking purely from the perspective that if you're being asked/told not to do something, then you shouldn't be doing it. So I'm not looking to debate the constitution, insult political parties, or call anyone a fraud. I just want a conversation pertaining to the hockey aspect of this. 

Edited by nemesis8679
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1. Agree with you Nemesis.  I think the moderator was more concerned with protecting the ID of the original poster than protecting the anonymity of the violating rink.  But we should be able to talk about controversial tidbits.  Outing a violator is probably in the best interest for public health.  Worst case scenario: positive cases of the virus will spike upward, progress to green status will be halted, season will be further delayed or even canceled.  If that happens, you can blame the rink or blame the dude needing his quick buck off a clinic.  I will blame both.

2. I wouldn't worry much about not being able to practice while other kids are practicing.  Suppose a few kids are getting a few weeks head start.  It will all even out by the start of the season.  If there is a season.  And lets be honest - anyone working on ice hockey specific skills in May is probably on the path to burn out.  Kids should be outside doing lacrosse, baseball, soccer, and track/field.

3. USA Hockey has no jurisdiction over a private business and no jurisdiction over a private transaction (sale of ice to guy running clinic).  OMG I've turned into the King! I'm sure USAH can issue dirty looks though.  

A fourth point of interest, worthy of discussion, is insurance.  USAH liability coverage does not apply in this case.  Maybe rink is protected through another insurance.  Maybe ISI?  Opening the doors with no liability insurance would seem like a big risk.  I would like to hear more comments on that if anyone has knowledge to share.

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1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

My remarks pertaining to this situation, and I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this:

1) It's not right to censor someone saying a rink is open on this forum, when the rink is obviously relatively known to be open. If they are not supposed to be open, then that is their problem if people talk about it. 

2) Besides the obvious health concerns (and would waiting another month or two (or three) help prevent this virus from spreading again and possibly ruin part or all of next season?), my big problem with this is that the ones being hurt here are the kids that are following the rules or have parents that are following the rules. They are really being put at a disadvantage here. You are rewarding those who are not thinking of anyone but themselves (of course if they get sick or die- or spread it to at-risk family members- I guess that's not much of a reward). Actually, I have a huge problem with that. You can't keep your skills up with skating the way you could stay fresh with other sports- which, by the way, still aren't running organized practices. 

And by the same token, rinks that are going against rules shouldn't be being financially rewarded when other privately owned rinks are biting the bullet and complying as asked. 

3) are they, in fact, in compliance now that reopening has started? Does the non-contact/no games aspect of this allow them to operate (we'll leave aside the fact that it is virtually impossible to have hockey practice and still follow mask guidelines/social distancing? If not, does USA Hockey have any ability to not sanction arenas or teams, or fmgive them a general hard time, through certain means? 

 

This point of this post is not me saying shutdowns are right or wrong. Personally, I'm in the middle of both extremes. And ultimately believe what educated health officials say over politicians or CEO's. But aside from that, I'm just talking purely from the perspective that if you're being asked/told not to do something, then you shouldn't be doing it. So I'm not looking to debate the constitution, insult political parties, or call anyone a fraud. I just want a conversation pertaining to the hockey aspect of this. 

Lol - disadvantage ? There are two other rinks open. This may surprise some of you, ppe is buying ice at this rink! Getting on the ice one or two days a week a few weeks before others doesn’t matter. If your kid takes hockey serious (not you) he or she is doing off ice right now, that’s way more important than skating in May. My oldest never played hockey in the spring and summer. He played baseball and ran track a few years. At 16 he quit baseball to focus more on hockey, that time was still spent off the ice not on it. 

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USA Hockey would not sanction the rink.  IMO USA Hockey should hammer anyone not following the guidlines.  Suspensions of teams and coaches possibly the entire organization.  You don't see other sports teams practicing, no other rinks are open for business in this fashion.  I'm all for the rink opening but you would think they would have some idea of who is renting the rink and what it is being used for.  I don't think they can just put their head in the sand and say coach A is renting the ice for private use and walk away free and clear.  Coach A is obviously renting the rink for his team to use.  

My guess is nothing happens and this group just keeps doing what they have been doing.  

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3 hours ago, Ynot02 said:

The CDC message was on the site before the state stay at home orders were put in place, and was just never removed. The website also has the newer message that says they are closed until further notice.

Oh good to know. I guess if you leave both messages up you can have your cake and eat it too. 

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45 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Lol - disadvantage ? There are two other rinks open. This may surprise some of you, ppe is buying ice at this rink! Getting on the ice one or two days a week a few weeks before others doesn’t matter. If your kid takes hockey serious (not you) he or she is doing off ice right now, that’s way more important than skating in May. My oldest never played hockey in the spring and summer. He played baseball and ran track a few years. At 16 he quit baseball to focus more on hockey, that time was still spent off the ice not on it. 

Is "PPE" buying ice at the rink or are some dad's whose kids play PPE buying ice at the rink?  I'd be shocked if a dime of PPE organization money can be traced to purchasing ice somewhere.  Especially since they never had tryouts. 

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1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Is "PPE" buying ice at the rink or are some dad's whose kids play PPE buying ice at the rink?  I'd be shocked if a dime of PPE organization money can be traced to purchasing ice somewhere.  Especially since they never had tryouts. 

PPE squirt teams, possibly spring ? But most of the kids have their PPE bags. 

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3 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

USA Hockey would not sanction the rink.  IMO USA Hockey should hammer anyone not following the guidlines.  Suspensions of teams and coaches possibly the entire organization.  You don't see other sports teams practicing, no other rinks are open for business in this fashion.  I'm all for the rink opening but you would think they would have some idea of who is renting the rink and what it is being used for.  I don't think they can just put their head in the sand and say coach A is renting the ice for private use and walk away free and clear.  Coach A is obviously renting the rink for his team to use.  

My guess is nothing happens and this group just keeps doing what they have been doing.  

How do you propose to enforce this. I don't think USA Hockey is going to send someone to a rink to take names.  I am actually quite shocked by the people who are whining about a rink renting their ice out. How will you feel if rinks have to close because they have had no income for 4 or 5 months. How would it affect youth hockey  if the number of rinks in western pa is cut in half when it gets to green.  And for arguments sake tell me what it is going to take to get to green. How can you work toward something with no guidelines. People are tired of government just making things up,  No one is being forced to skate.   Maybe just maybe there are people skating for the love of the game.  I would like to think that most people are well aware of the risks involved with being in public.  We are in this for the long haul. No quick fix. Time to get on with life! And yes that most likely means the inflated numbers are going to go up, people are going to get sick. Most will recover some will not. I live in a country that up until now gave me the choice to live my life free from oppression. I'd like to get back to that. Enough of my rantings.
Time

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26 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

How do you propose to enforce this. I don't think USA Hockey is going to send someone to a rink to take names.  I am actually quite shocked by the people who are whining about a rink renting their ice out. How will you feel if rinks have to close because they have had no income for 4 or 5 months. How would it affect youth hockey  if the number of rinks in western pa is cut in half when it gets to green.  And for arguments sake tell me what it is going to take to get to green. How can you work toward something with no guidelines. People are tired of government just making things up,  No one is being forced to skate.   Maybe just maybe there are people skating for the love of the game.  I would like to think that most people are well aware of the risks involved with being in public.  We are in this for the long haul. No quick fix. Time to get on with life! And yes that most likely means the inflated numbers are going to go up, people are going to get sick. Most will recover some will not. I live in a country that up until now gave me the choice to live my life free from oppression. I'd like to get back to that. Enough of my rantings.
Time

Yeah, dude. I'd like to get back to that, too. But no one is being "oppressed". How would I feel if some rinks went out of business over this? Bad. No question. But I won't feel any better if this shit gets prolonged enough to wreck getting back to life, and hockey, even longer. And when we get right back to where we started- not because a handful of rinks are open, but because people aren't willing to sacrifice a bit of personal gain- they'll go out of business then, instead. Look, these small businesses should get assistance from state and federal government- isn't that one of the reasons we have governments? If you're country is unwilling or unable to help in these situations then something is majorly wrong with your government. But at the same time, go tell someone who grew up during the great depression or WW2 that it was just "too difficult" to go a few months with no hockey, or getting a haircut. They'd laugh at you. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the sooner we all do what we should be doing, the sooner this could all be a non-issue. 

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4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

1. Agree with you Nemesis.  I think the moderator was more concerned with protecting the ID of the original poster than protecting the anonymity of the violating rink.  But we should be able to talk about controversial tidbits.  Outing a violator is probably in the best interest for public health.  Worst case scenario: positive cases of the virus will spike upward, progress to green status will be halted, season will be further delayed or even canceled.  If that happens, you can blame the rink or blame the dude needing his quick buck off a clinic.  I will blame both.

2. I wouldn't worry much about not being able to practice while other kids are practicing.  Suppose a few kids are getting a few weeks head start.  It will all even out by the start of the season.  If there is a season.  And lets be honest - anyone working on ice hockey specific skills in May is probably on the path to burn out.  Kids should be outside doing lacrosse, baseball, soccer, and track/field.

3. USA Hockey has no jurisdiction over a private business and no jurisdiction over a private transaction (sale of ice to guy running clinic).  OMG I've turned into the King! I'm sure USAH can issue dirty looks though.  

A fourth point of interest, worthy of discussion, is insurance.  USAH liability coverage does not apply in this case.  Maybe rink is protected through another insurance.  Maybe ISI?  Opening the doors with no liability insurance would seem like a big risk.  I would like to hear more comments on that if anyone has knowledge to share.

Good points.

As far as losing out because of not skating for a few months, I agree. But some kids just love the game of hockey. To the point they'd rather be doing that than any other sport or even playing video games. So if it's the kid's choice, I'm all for the one-sport athlete. 

And with the insurance, as I understand it now, it doesn't matter who is "covering" it- if you have a business that's told not to be open and they are anyway, any insurer can refuse payment on any claims. And the way insurance companies are, if they can deny paying, they will. And even if you have personal insurance, if you're injured doing this when the gov. is saying you can't do it, the personal insurance conceivably could be denied, too. So now you're just opened up to lawsuits- against the rink, the organization, the coach, parents, and lord knows who else. And you know there is absolutely a parent out there, who if they or their kid caught covid at a rink, will sue and say they caught it because the rink opened when they shouldn't have, but they weren't aware of the risk because the rink and the coaches told them that with the protocols it would be okay. And there's a million attorneys that would make that argument. They're going to disinfect the rinks after each group of kids? If you've seen any of them (besides Shadyside Academy) and believe that, well I don't know what to tell you. A mediocre lawyer would have a field day with just that alone. Not to mention the social distancing part... I guess unless you're using Chara's stick, you can't take a puck from someone at the recommended 6 ft. Seems like a lot of risk, and a mess waiting to happen. 

Edited by nemesis8679
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2 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Yeah, dude. I'd like to get back to that, too. But no one is being "oppressed". How would I feel if some rinks went out of business over this? Bad. No question. But I won't feel any better if this shit gets prolonged enough to wreck getting back to life, and hockey, even longer. And when we get right back to where we started- not because a handful of rinks are open, but because people aren't willing to sacrifice a bit of personal gain- they'll go out of business then, instead. Look, these small businesses should get assistance from state and federal government- isn't that one of the reasons we have governments? If you're country is unwilling or unable to help in these situations then something is majorly wrong with your government. But at the same time, go tell someone who grew up during the great depression or WW2 that it was just "too difficult" to go a few months with no hockey, or getting a haircut. They'd laugh at you. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the sooner we all do what we should be doing, the sooner this could all be a non-issue. 

OK I agree but give me an idea as to when that might be. 1 month, 2 months, 3 years?  I don't see an end. And when will the government just run out of money too?   They can't just keep printing it.  This virus is going to be here. We are not going to be able to eliminate it without a vaccine and even then it likely will mutate. We need to get back to life cautiously. Letting young kids play sports is not going to change the course of this virus one way or another.  If you are vulnerable protect yourself. Don't expect someone else to do it for you.

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25 minutes ago, ctil20 said:

I’m curious why there wasn’t this kind of uproar when news came out that a particular rink has been running lessons since early April? 
 

 

Because it was only one, now there are a handful, people’s feelings are hurt - being left out. If their superstar kid can’t get on the ice, then nobody should be allowed. Typical of most parents. 

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33 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Because it was only one, now there are a handful, people’s feelings are hurt - being left out. If their superstar kid can’t get on the ice, then nobody should be allowed. 

The thing is, is that nobody IS allowed. What personality defect is it that some people think they're above everyone else, that rules don't apply to them? 

I would tend to think that parents willing to risk their kid's health (or other's) are more likely to be the ones with the self-appointed "my kid is a superstar" attitude than the ones who can take a step back and wait a month or two to see what happens. In fact, knowing some of the ones that are doing it, I'd say I'm 100% right about that. 

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