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It is well known now that some very specific USAH coaches, hockey parents, and players are willfully disobeying public health orders.   There is news today of fall team prospects now practicing together.

Some may now be infected, or may now be carriers of infection.  

Allowing these coaches and players to participate in a tryout is now a serious health risk.  

Can we assume that local associations will protect their memberships, and require a negative COVID-19 test on these people before tryouts? 

Edited by Jack Handey
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Wait so people aren’t getting the virus anywhere but a hockey rink? 
 

And once the Southpointe rink rats determine that someone doesn’t have the virus, they can no longer get it in the future and be a risk to membership? That’s a hell of a test if it’s also giving immunity. 

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11 minutes ago, ctil20 said:

Wait so people aren’t getting the virus anywhere but a hockey rink? 

Yeah I can't get into a forensics debate here, but it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened if there is outbreak amongst a group of people who collectively engaged in a risky activity.  On the bright side, 99% will survive.  Odds are in your favor.

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9 minutes ago, The King said:

Either way, what’s best is far from anyone’s radar.

What's best  is probably not within the bounds of reality.  

 

14 minutes ago, The King said:

do I have enough money to grease their palms?

I'm guessing they'll need to grease the palms in the legal community instead.  If an association has knowledge that its coaches and players are practicing, they could be held accountable once mid-am goes green if a future outbreak occurs.  It's probably a good time for board members to pick up some (more) personal liability insurance.

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Honestly, and I've never noticed this on the past so hopefully I'm wrong, but this entire thread stinks of "my kid didn't get invited I'm jealous" or at a minimum "I'm terrified in my house and jealous other people aren't". Let kids play sports and get some exercise.  Save the liability bull$ for people who care. 

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I will say this much..
 

Each rink that is operating needs to do a better job of keeping people away from each other. I’ve seen two rinks with employees cleaning, requiring masks and that’s a start. However, what goes on inside is like nothing has changed... parents huddled together in the stands, lobby, parking lot. 
 

Set up a sign at the entrance, masks, 6ft distance, no groups or you will be asked to leave. People would fall in line very quickly if they knew they would have to leave. Rinks have been seemingly too forgiving. What they are offering is at a premium right now, might as well take advantage and instill some order instead of letting it turn into a free for all once everyone is in the door.
 

And they would be doing everyone a favor by being more strict about behavior inside rink. It’s been real sloppy, locker rooms loaded with kids, parents frolicking and having tailgates. I would think that whoever is making the decision to open would realize you have people by the proverbial balls... and they will absolutely fall in line if it’s the difference in junior getting to skate. 

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2 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Honestly, and I've never noticed this on the past so hopefully I'm wrong, but this entire thread stinks of "my kid didn't get invited I'm jealous" or at a minimum "I'm terrified in my house and jealous other people aren't". Let kids play sports and get some exercise.  Save the liability bull$ for people who care. 

100% 

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22 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

It is well known now that some very specific USAH coaches, hockey parents, and players are willfully disobeying public health orders.   There is news today of fall team prospects now practicing together.

Some may now be infected, or may now be carriers of infection.  

Allowing these coaches and players to participate in a tryout is now a serious health risk.  

Can we assume that local associations will protect their memberships, and require a negative COVID-19 test on these people before tryouts? 

So, what you are saying is the rinks in question are not allowed legally to be open?  Or are the rinks allowed to be open, but the teams are legally allowed to practice? You quoted “disobeying public Heath orders”, can you elaborate a little bit what specific orders these are?  I would think if the rinks aren’t allowed to be open, someone would stop by and let them know.  It’s not like they are hiding anything 

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23 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Honestly, and I've never noticed this on the past so hopefully I'm wrong, but this entire thread stinks of "my kid didn't get invited I'm jealous" or at a minimum "I'm terrified in my house and jealous other people aren't".

I'm worried that people who are pretty smart at science, medicine, microbiology, etc have issued recommendations for the benefit of the public good, and that hockey coaches by night and whatever else they are by day have decided they know better.  

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THIS IS GOING TO SOUND CRAZY!!!!

How about everyone worry about their own kid!!!!

Most of the parents who are raising issues about this are jealous and are the same types of parents that openly complain to their child about the coach or teammates.

The supposed favorites are usually the kids that works harder than everyone else, loves the game, wants to be at the rink, and listens, which is the reason why their one of the better players on the team and getting more ice time.   It’s not the coach’s fault, it’s the players, because I guarantee the player isn’t working hard, goofs around, doesn’t listen, isn’t skilled enough and causes the team problems.

Rather than worry about what other kids and organizations (that your kid isn’t skilled enough to make) are doing you should worry about teaching your kid how to take responsibility for themselves and not shift blame.

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12 minutes ago, BACKCHECKING said:

It’s not the coach’s fault, it’s the players,

Great post!!

I agree with this "It's not the coaches fault"

I disagree with this "it's the player"

The player has culpability for sure. But their portion is about a third and their parents about two thirds. The kids of the parents who are constantly in their ear have such little chance to achieve what THEY want simply because of what their parents want.

 

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Local basketball camps got cleared to open as of tomorrow in Pittsburgh. How would hockey be any more risky? Shouldnt all the rinks be open too?

And if the kids are exposes to other activities would the delay in hockey make any difference?

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4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

I'm worried that people who are pretty smart at science, medicine, microbiology, etc have issued recommendations for the benefit of the public good, and that hockey coaches by night and whatever else they are by day have decided they know better.  

I wouldn’t worry if I were you.  I’m sure the coaches, organizations and rinks are taking the necessary precautions and following the rules.  But if this is weighing that heavily on you, just keep your kid outa little longer until you feel more comfortable.  It’s up to you. 

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2 hours ago, Eddie Shore said:

I wouldn’t worry if I were you.  I’m sure the coaches, organizations and rinks are taking the necessary precautions and following the rules.  But if this is weighing that heavily on you, just keep your kid outa little longer until you feel more comfortable.  It’s up to you. 

Minding your own business seems hard these days 

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5 hours ago, BACKCHECKING said:

How about everyone worry about their own kid

This is ALL ABOUT protecting my kids.   And protecting myself too.

 

5 hours ago, BACKCHECKING said:

parents who are raising issues about this are jealous

No, we're soccer, lacrosse, and track this time of year.  Miss those too, but this is really about protecting kids and families at tryouts like I said from the start. 

It's about staying alive. 

I like life.  Big fan. 

I like my life, my kids' lives, your lives, your kids' lives, and all the kids' gramma's lives.  When my team plays your team this year, I want 100% of your team, my team, every coach, every official, and every cow-bell-ringing gramma to be there.  It will be a great game, I'm looking forward to it.  

What I don't want is any single one of those people to miss out on the fun that is our game. 

Especially if their absence could have been so easily prevented.

My kids are not tested.  I'm not tested.  We could be carriers.  I don't know.  You don't know.  You and your kids could be carriers.  You don't know.  I don't know.

But our lives, your life, your kids' lives, your gramma's life are all more important than my kids' need for hockey.  So we can wait a little while. 

From the trenches, if you've not been: hockey brings all kinds of opportunity for fluid exchange.  Spit.  Hockers.  Snot.  Coughing.  Vomit.  Blood.  Even something as simple as a coach delivering a spirited talk at the whiteboard, spittle flying through his teeth and lips while kids take a knee, shoulder to shoulder, heavy breathing from the last drill, rapidly inhaling and exhaling.

We have enough uncertainty with this virus.  By getting together in large groups under yellow, some of us are compounding that uncertainty.

Do your kids and yourselves and my kids and me and all grammas a favor: stay home for a few more weeks.  Hockey will still be there when we go green.  

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Do us all a favor and never drive anywhere ever again. Would hate for you to have an accident and kill Gramma so she misses the hockey game. 

Eventually, everyone in the world can't stay locked up forever.  Lots of people like you want to tell me and everyone else "just a few more weeks" and guess what we've been at this for over two months - supposedly to save hospital capacity. Now even the UPMC docs are telling us to stop this idiocy.  Try listening to them instead of a political back. 

 

Im glad it seems as though you have not been personally impacted financially but think of those who have. Or those suffering depression, suicide, and substance abuse. Or domestic and sexial violence with no way to escape their home situations. Or unable to seek proper medical care for other conditions. Or unable to exercise and accruing heart disease and other diseases. 

Until you (or even the governor for gods sake) are willing to give real metrics for opening up, you are simply whining that others are back to living life. 

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37 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Do us all a favor and never drive anywhere ever again. Would hate for you to have an accident and kill Gramma so she misses the hockey game. 

Eventually, everyone in the world can't stay locked up forever.  Lots of people like you want to tell me and everyone else "just a few more weeks" and guess what we've been at this for over two months - supposedly to save hospital capacity. Now even the UPMC docs are telling us to stop this idiocy.  Try listening to them instead of a political back. 

 

Im glad it seems as though you have not been personally impacted financially but think of those who have. Or those suffering depression, suicide, and substance abuse. Or domestic and sexial violence with no way to escape their home situations. Or unable to seek proper medical care for other conditions. Or unable to exercise and accruing heart disease and other diseases. 

Until you (or even the governor for gods sake) are willing to give real metrics for opening up, you are simply whining that others are back to living life. 

I'm with you 100 percent on this. Jack Handy might as well put him and his family in a bubble. Only sure way he's not going to catch anything.  This is something we are all just going to have to live with.  Hopefully we can be smart. And yes there are lots of people out there that are taking no precautions. But that's life and that's the world we live in.  Time to get back to it.

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I just saw an article today that states that on the average summer day in the US that 7500 people will die. That was before Covid-19.  Why aren't those numbers reported every day? With a breakdown as to how they died.  Now the numbers are closer to 10,000 a day but only the deaths and suspected deaths from Covid-19 are reported.  Should be real interesting to see what the numbers are going to be when the shutdowns are relaxed.

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I am staying home and if nothing happens to you, you can thank me later.  You can stay home too.  You got this.  

And for all the new overnight pulmonary experts, here's a medical tip: 

Yellow is not Green. 

It seems this basic scientific fact has eluded you on your way to your instant MD.

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2 hours ago, The King said:

The theme of @Jack Handey original post was the fact that rinks and/or coaches are breaking state mandates on conducting business and allowing larger than permitted groups use the facilities. At some point it got twisted by a litany of  “but what about...?” Posts that are the weakest form of argument or debate. Even the OP dropped their original argument for a political diatribe that eventually devolved into this boards famous virtue signaling. So I’ll ask this question Of you, @aaaahockey, through the original viewpoint of rule breaking- are you of the belief that rules only apply when it’s convenient? The fact that rinks, coaches, clubs, etc, have decided to eschew any mandates from “governing bodies” or state governments, doesn't in the least bother you at all? Let me give you a scenario and see how you’d handle it. Let’s say a parent of a player on your kids team isn’t playing as much as yours. They decide to accuse your player of bullying. Understand that whether the kid did or not is irrelevant because the simple implication of it is what matters. Now, your kid obviously denies it. However, one of the lawyers that is on the board of directors in your district, reached out to the parents that make the accusations to do an “investigation”. Keep in mind the accusing parent has money to burn and loose morals. All of a sudden your kid is called into a hearing where they are forbidden to defend themselves and only permitted to listen to the accusations. They then are suspended. Obviously the process violates the rights of your son and taking a kickback or “donation” in exchange for a certain ruling would be illegal in any world. But no matter how hard you try, certain social or political voices (similar to this board) determines that your kid bullied and deserved it. Would you then be so obtuse about rule breaking? Just curious. 

Rules should always be followed. That's why I always drive 55 on the interstate around the city and never let my kids play knee hockey in a hotel. I also never eat less than 30 minutes before getting in the swimming pool, never litter, always get a building permit when I do home repairs, and never curse in front of my mother. Scouts honor!

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I don't see how these repeated sarcastic posts are moving this discussion forward.

I'm afraid that the question of whether social distancing and shut down or operational restrictions of various services and facilities is necessary and the question of whether those shut down/operational restrictions are the law of the land are two different, and, it appears, increasingly unrelated, questions.

The various restrictions on our daily lives may or may not have been necessary. We can never know whether they were or were not necessary because it is not possible to know what would have happened if they had not been enacted. For my part, I suspect they were not necessary, as I have stated elsewhere on this board. However, that question is not relevant to the question of whether rinks/coaches are permitted to operate outside the rules laid down by the government. The various requirements to operate are clear, if not clearly scientific, and operating otherwise is risking official action. There can't be any question about that. It is up to the various rinks to decide what level of exposure they can accept.

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8 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

I don't see how these repeated sarcastic posts are moving this discussion forward.

I'm afraid that the question of whether social distancing and shut down or operational restrictions of various services and facilities is necessary and the question of whether those shut down/operational restrictions are the law of the land are two different, and, it appears, increasingly unrelated, questions.

The various restrictions on our daily lives may or may not have been necessary. We can never know whether they were or were not necessary because it is not possible to know what would have happened if they had not been enacted. For my part, I suspect they were not necessary, as I have stated elsewhere on this board. However, that question is not relevant to the question of whether rinks/coaches are permitted to operate outside the rules laid down by the government. The various requirements to operate are clear, if not clearly scientific, and operating otherwise is risking official action. There can't be any question about that. It is up to the various rinks to decide what level of exposure they can accept.

I actually agree with you and it's also up to the individual parents. My sarcasm in the last post was a response to King about when "rules" apply.  I have not participated in any hockey activities and probably won't until it is officially allowed. At the same time, it isn't my job to go around whining about other people who choose to do so or try to morality shame them or snitch on them or anything else. If someone wants to enforce the rules, be it a government organization or a sporting authority like Mid-Am, PAHL, or USA Hockey, it's easy enough to see who is participating and who isn't and that's their perogative. It's looking more and more as though nothing is going to be enforced and I'm perfectly OK with that. 

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