The death of PAHL

[HSFBLJ]

Mt. Lebo, Preds, Icemen, PPE, Esmark, Vengence all fielding AAA teams.

I'm wondering if PAHL will be able to survive.  Who is left? NP, AHA, WM, SCIR.

PAHL is becoming a watered dowl version of what is once was.  Call it what you want but it looking more and more like a house league division.  

[Bob Loblaw]

With that being said, you could also make the same argument for AAA hockey.

[HereWithPopcorn]

It is watered down across the board and therefore garbage hockey all around.

With the AAA expansion, those kids get plucked from the would be AA and A+, and then because of parent egos and needing the extra A, they backfill AA with A players that shouldn't be there all the way down to B.

To top it off, you get the sandbagging banner hunters from smaller organizations (looking at Wheeling and others) that play lower with a few higher ranked kids and wipe the floor with these diluted larger organizations.

[Denis Lemiuex]

This is awesome news. Now WPA can have it's own AAA league like in Detroit. Our kids won't have to travel 16 of 18 weekends and hundreds of players from around the country (and in Esmark's case the world) will come here to experience the joy and privilege of playing AAA hockey, a level they were born to play. The 40 -80 AAA players from WPA no longer have to leave the area to find their rightful place on AAA rosters instead of A Black. And with the higher class means better coaching, better use of resources and much better product so the parents won't feel bad about shelling out a few extra thousands for this happen. Glorious day. Never thought I would live long enough to see this happen. Just hope Corona doesn't get me before the season starts.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Denis Lemiuex

[Eddie Shore]

12 hours ago, The King said:

Ask yourself this, if your kid was the one that’s cut because teams or organizations were eliminated, would your kid go to a team labeled in-house or developmental?

I'll flip the question on you, if a kid was the one that’s cut because teams or organizations were eliminated, would their parents let them go to a team labeled in-house or developmental?

As you and I have discussed in the past, the majority of kids at a very young and at a very old age don't care about the number of A's, it's the parents.  When they are young, they just want to play and have fun (they don't know any better).  When they are older, they just want to play and have fun (they are past this whole, I play AAA thing).  It's the parents that create the mess.

[forbin]

I will say that you are completely right about it being the parents that care about the extra A. I've even seen it so far at the mite level which is absurd! Although I will also say that if the 10U AA teams practiced more nights a week than the B teams did, I would prefer my son have a good try out and make the AA team as there's nothing else he'd rather do than be on the ice. Obviously as he gets older that may change, but I can totally see the parental influence in forcing the AAA issue.

I always chuckle when I see little Johnny carry his AAA team bag into the rink followed by John Sr. and Karen fully decked out in their AAA team garb with their chests puffed out and nose in the air. Obviously this is a generalization and I am only stating it to ruffle some feathers. I have had many conversations with AAA parents who are great people and realize the BS that comes with the territory.

I am all for more avenues for players to play the game, but it has without a doubt watered down the talent pool at the local level. Maybe there needs to be more focus on skill development at younger ages?

[Danner27]

56 minutes ago, forbin said:

I will say that you are completely right about it being the parents that care about the extra A. I've even seen it so far at the mite level which is absurd! Although I will also say that if the 10U AA teams practiced more nights a week than the B teams did, I would prefer my son have a good try out and make the AA team as there's nothing else he'd rather do than be on the ice. Obviously as he gets older that may change, but I can totally see the parental influence in forcing the AAA issue.

I always chuckle when I see little Johnny carry his AAA team bag into the rink followed by John Sr. and Karen fully decked out in their AAA team garb with their chests puffed out and nose in the air. Obviously this is a generalization and I am only stating it to ruffle some feathers. I have had many conversations with AAA parents who are great people and realize the BS that comes with the territory.

I am all for more avenues for players to play the game, but it has without a doubt watered down the talent pool at the local level. Maybe there needs to be more focus on skill development at younger ages?

Don’t fully agree, My oldest wanted to play at the highest level he could, against the best players he could. That was his choice. 
 

with that said I see esmark is no longer just midget aaa - pw, bantam minor & major, 15u, 16u & 18u

[HSFBLJ]

I'm not talking about the extra A argument.  Don't these teams pay a PAHL fee?  How many teams have to leave PAHL before this becomes an issue?  

[forbin]

Playing devils advocate here, and hoping for some interesting comments...

Why not make a Western PA AAA hockey league?

6-8 organizations with only one team for each birth year 12U to 18U. They all play each other 2-4 times a season plus their normal travel and tournament schedule. Essentially a glorified "PAHL AAA"

Maybe then PAHL will have less teams at each age group, making those teams more competitive, also opening up some ice slots.

 

[aaaahockey]

2 hours ago, forbin said:

Playing devils advocate here, and hoping for some interesting comments...

Why not make a Western PA AAA hockey league?

6-8 organizations with only one team for each birth year 12U to 18U. They all play each other 2-4 times a season plus their normal travel and tournament schedule. Essentially a glorified "PAHL AAA"

Maybe then PAHL will have less teams at each age group, making those teams more competitive, also opening up some ice slots.

 

PAHL could just create a "AAA" Division and we could call Pens Elite AAAA and we can all be happy!  Or we could create AAA Major and AAA Minor divisions.  There are lots of solutions but all this just points to the fact that parents are ridiculous about the A's.

[Eddie Shore]

5 hours ago, The King said:

It’s a refusal to admit that the area is not as much of a hockey hot bed as the money counters want them to believe it is.

YES! Quote of the year right there everyone.  I have not spent much time in the area, but the little bit of time I was there, I could not believe how many people thought that Pittsburgh was a "hockey town".  What a joke. 

Most people there don't know the difference between a blue line and a clothes line.

[forbin]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

PAHL could just create a "AAA" Division and we could call Pens Elite AAAA and we can all be happy!  Or we could create AAA Major and AAA Minor divisions.  There are lots of solutions but all this just points to the fact that parents are ridiculous about the A's.

[forbin]

1 hour ago, Eddie Shore said:

YES! Quote of the year right there everyone.  I have not spent much time in the area, but the little bit of time I was there, I could not believe how many people thought that Pittsburgh was a "hockey town".  What a joke. 

Most people there don't know the difference between a blue line and a clothes line.

In terms of NHL fan base sense you are correct. Pittsburgh is a fair weather fan town. No question about it. I would estimate 70% of the Pens fan base today is made up of unintelligent homers who latched on when Crosby brought the cup to town. But can you blame them for that?

In terms of youth hockey, the Pittsburgh area has come a long way in popularity from when I played as a kid in the 90's. Hell, I was part of a high schools' inaugural season and it took A LOT of convincing to the school board to allow the sport be even be added as a club at the time. As a kid when I told people I played hockey they didn't even realize my suburb had an ice rink. The only place to get equipment was Play it Again and Perani's.

Much different scene today.

A "hockey town" like cities in MN, MI, or MA? No, not even close.

[Racchi’s Rug]

5 hours ago, forbin said:

 

In terms of youth hockey, the Pittsburgh area has come a long way in popularity from when I played as a kid in the 90's. Hell, I was part of a high schools' inaugural season and it took A LOT of convincing to the school board to allow the sport be even be added as a club at the time. As a kid when I told people I played hockey they didn't even realize my suburb had an ice rink. The only place to get equipment was Play it Again and Perani's.

Much different scene today.

A "hockey town" like cities in MN, MI, or MA? No, not even close.

You and I must have played in the same era although I played PAHL A.

there was just A, AA, and B. No gold or black or white or anything. I sound like an old fart but it’s pretty watered down now. And as someone said you have the sandbaggers who play down to get a banner. 

PAHL has a lot of flaws and a lot to fix, but if you read their meeting minutes they do a treasurers report and basically call it a meeting without many of the organizations don’t even bother to have a representative call in much less attend. It’s all about the buck. Hence 15 Squirt divisions or something ludicrous.

I don’t think that an AAA league around here (although it’s a great idea) would fly because of the simple facts of 1.  of what MyHockey rankings has done to the game. Too many people concentrate on “rankings” and schedules 2. Moreover and maybe most notably there’s an emphasis of travel with AAA teams to get the players into more hockey hotbeds for junior and college recruitment when many will end up quitting by the time they’re seniors from the pressure and grind and parents OR they’ll end up paying to play in ACHA D1.
 

not to knock the players-some parents have delusions of grandeur and want that extra A and are willing to pay exorbitant amounts of money and time to have that embroidered bag and windbreakers. Maybe playing high school hockey with your friends is more fun with way less pressure.

[Lifelongbender]

16 hours ago, forbin said:

In terms of NHL fan base sense you are correct. Pittsburgh is a fair weather fan town. No question about it. I would estimate 70% of the Pens fan base today is made up of unintelligent homers who latched on when Crosby brought the cup to town. But can you blame them for that?

In terms of youth hockey, the Pittsburgh area has come a long way in popularity from when I played as a kid in the 90's. Hell, I was part of a high schools' inaugural season and it took A LOT of convincing to the school board to allow the sport be even be added as a club at the time. As a kid when I told people I played hockey they didn't even realize my suburb had an ice rink. The only place to get equipment was Play it Again and Perani's.

Much different scene today.

A "hockey town" like cities in MN, MI, or MA? No, not even close.

LOL. Don't forget the wonderful Rupps! Now that was a hockey store.

[Racchi’s Rug]

2 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

LOL. Don't forget the wonderful Rupps! Now that was a hockey store.

Hannan’s too!

[Racchi’s Rug]

I see what you mean, @The King I just meant there’s more pressure to “move on” with AAA than there is in high school. No disrespect to either group of players. I was unclear and vague.

[Wes]

17 hours ago, The King said:

Understood and agreed. The funny thing is, the meaning of “moving on” has become such a subjective term within amateur hockey. Simply playing after high school graduation in an organized league with a focus on competition is considered moving on for most anymore (re: junior hockey in the US). And even the college scholarships aren’t what they used to be. A degree means much less than it did 15-20 years ago and most aren’t even a full ride. Great accomplishment and honor. But not the value it used to have. And what WPA has done to HS hockey is disgraceful. I’m not talking about any level of play or competitiveness. What I mean is, everything I read here combined with what I am told by people still in the know is that it’s been forced into being a parental free for all. The league officials are some of the weakest leaders around from what I hear. But it’s not all their fault. Who would want to be under constant assault and threat of legal action from parents who have been gaslighted into believing HS hockey is supposed to be an inter mural sport? Those organizations are run by parents, corrupted by parents, run into the ground by parents, and run as an organized crime syndicate by parents. It’s a crime. What kid would feel any sense of pride playing for an organization their parents built around them? It’s embarrassing to anyone with a sense of pride. Maybe that’s the issue?

@The King it was a total parent-centric free-for-all at our high school.  Nepotism, favoritism, black balling, gone wild.  Disgusting.  Which is my point of saying that (most) schools have zero idea what's going on inside those teams.

[nemesis8679]

2 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

@The King it was a total parent-centric free-for-all at our high school.  Nepotism, favoritism, black balling, gone wild.  Disgusting.  Which is my point of saying that (most) schools have zero idea what's going on inside those teams.

That's why they should be under the athletic director. If they're going to to bound to the school colors and logo, just sayin'.