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13 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

Would you rather have sports, businesses and restaurants opened on a limited basis while wearing a mask when you go out, or have everything closed while not having to wear a mask at all.........

Everyone has choices, and if I need to wear a mask when entering / exiting a restaurant or seeing an amateur hockey game, I am OK with it.  Those same businesses mandate shoes and a shirt, no?

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28 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Would you rather have sports, businesses and restaurants opened on a limited basis while wearing a mask when you go out, or have everything closed while not having to wear a mask at all.........

Everyone has choices, and if I need to wear a mask when entering / exiting a restaurant or seeing an amateur hockey game, I am OK with it.  Those same businesses mandate shoes and a shirt, no?

This is exactly right, @fafa fohi. While masks may or may not be effective, and it may or may not be reasonable to force everyone to wear them, and it may or may not be an infringement upon our rights, etc., if wearing masks is the (honestly fairly small though annoying) price we have to pay to get on with our lives, more or less, then you just do it. We have been discussing elsewhere, among myriad posts about what a high opinion many of this board's members have about each other, how disregarding the order by just one or two rinks/organizations may cost all of Western PA a season. 

The short version of all of this is that you have to do what you have to do.

Having said that, @Scooby Doo, nothing about that makes me happy, either.

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Reading the FAQ I am not too worried about it. Unless it's changed since yesterday you do not need to wear a mask while actively participating in sports only when you come off the field (or I would assume ice).  I think this can be adjusted fairly easily for hockey to be face shields count. I would pity coaches having to try to mask up every mite kid when they come off for a shift but luckily I'm too old to have to worry about that now haha. 

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I can't say for sure what the risk is in playing hockey, but if I am doing risk/reward analysis, the reward will definitely be low this season. As a result, my child will not be participating.

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I'm torn on this whole mask thing.  When you go back a read articles from 2018 and prior, they all say wearing a mask does nothing to prevent the spread of virus and disease, but now they are saying it is the best thing to prevent the spread.  So, I don't really know what to think.  It almost feels like a symbolic thing as opposed to something that that really contributes.  Kind of like a politician that will take a knee to symbolize they oppose racism but not do anything for true reform.  They are viewed in a positive way.  Yet another who would work to pass legislation for true reform, yet says I'm not kneeling because it's just a "symbol" is viewed in a negative way.  I just don't get it sometimes.

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42 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

I'm torn on this whole mask thing.  When you go back a read articles from 2018 and prior, they all say wearing a mask does nothing to prevent the spread of virus and disease, but now they are saying it is the best thing to prevent the spread.  So, I don't really know what to think.  It almost feels like a symbolic thing as opposed to something that that really contributes.  Kind of like a politician that will take a knee to symbolize they oppose racism but not do anything for true reform.  They are viewed in a positive way.  Yet another who would work to pass legislation for true reform, yet says I'm not kneeling because it's just a "symbol" is viewed in a negative way.  I just don't get it sometimes.

Torn? What would it take besides all the medical experts telling us how important it is? I just don't get it. I'm so frustrated that everyone is not on board with this. Can we just try it? Because what we are doing now is, obviously, not working.

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@Quinlan2020 and I'm saying this with all seriousness, you may want to speak with someone about your anxiety. I'm not telling you not to wear a mask (I do when appropriate), or to allow your children to play hockey (you should make that decision based on risk profile of your family), but your posts kind of breathe an air of anxiety that doesn't seem healthy - especially in the North Hills thread. Things have been very hard on all of us over the last few months but if I can guarantee you one thing it is that people aren't coming to this hockey forum for medical advice or to change their mind about their kids playing.  

As for the mask scientific nature @Eddie Shore I think a lot of the problem is that not enough real research has been done either way. Hell we are dealing with a virus that months into massive amounts of transmission we still aren't certain really transmits through surfaces or not, not sure if it transmits asymptomatically often or not, not sure how often it spreads outside or in large rooms, and are making lots of decisions by the seat of our pants (deciding what to close and when without any real evidence or contact tracing). A very serious problem throughout the entire pandemic has been making decisions on a lack of data.  Even if I disagreed with the scope of Allegheny County's bar ban, on the other side, I also applauded them for actually using some contact tracing data in making the decision. It was a step in the right direction.  I would agree it would be wise to pause specific youth sports if serious cases arose from a specific sport.  

The way I see masks is they can't hurt, so I'm willing to do it, but if someone has serious trouble breathing when doing vigorous (or any) exercise they shouldn't wear it.  I'm also skeptical they are as full proof as people pretend they are just like I am skeptical of standing 6 feet apart on a piece of tape is going to do anything serious, but I still do it because how the hell would I know?  Dammit Jim I'm a hockey dad not a scientist. 

 

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11 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

@Quinlan2020 and I'm saying this with all seriousness, you may want to speak with someone about your anxiety. I'm not telling you not to wear a mask (I do when appropriate), or to allow your children to play hockey (you should make that decision based on risk profile of your family), but your posts kind of breathe an air of anxiety that doesn't seem healthy - especially in the North Hills thread. Things have been very hard on all of us over the last few months but if I can guarantee you one thing it is that people aren't coming to this hockey forum for medical advice or to change their mind about their kids playing.  

As for the mask scientific nature @Eddie Shore I think a lot of the problem is that not enough real research has been done either way. Hell we are dealing with a virus that months into massive amounts of transmission we still aren't certain really transmits through surfaces or not, not sure if it transmits asymptomatically often or not, not sure how often it spreads outside or in large rooms, and are making lots of decisions by the seat of our pants (deciding what to close and when without any real evidence or contact tracing). A very serious problem throughout the entire pandemic has been making decisions on a lack of data.  Even if I disagreed with the scope of Allegheny County's bar ban, on the other side, I also applauded them for actually using some contact tracing data in making the decision. It was a step in the right direction.  I would agree it would be wise to pause specific youth sports if serious cases arose from a specific sport.  

The way I see masks is they can't hurt, so I'm willing to do it, but if someone has serious trouble breathing when doing vigorous (or any) exercise they shouldn't wear it.  I'm also skeptical they are as full proof as people pretend they are just like I am skeptical of standing 6 feet apart on a piece of tape is going to do anything serious, but I still do it because how the hell would I know?  Dammit Jim I'm a hockey dad not a scientist. 

 

I agree with most of what you said. I do have anxiety. I think more people should. The complacency is why we are where we are. However, the part about whether it transmits asymptomatically is not in question. It does, and that is one of the main reasons it spreads so easily. Epidimieologists agree that this virus is killing so many people because the death rate is low. People aren't afraid of it, so it spreads more, leading to more deaths. A more deadly disease would not kill as many people. 

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From the CDC website (WHO if that's your boat says rarely does it transmit asymptomatically):

" There are reports of asymptomatic infections (detection of virus with no development of symptoms) and pre-symptomatic infections (detection of virus prior to development of symptoms) with SARS-CoV-2, but their role in transmission is not yet known."

I understand why people might think differently based on the news stories we see or what politicians or others say, but seriously we don't know for sure about asymptomatic transmission. I think it's also important to note if you had a mild fever you might not realize it or mild symptoms like scratchy throat or light cough you might think it's allergies but you wouldn't be asymptomatic.  Lots and lots of unknowns here. 

 

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28 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

From the CDC website (WHO if that's your boat says rarely does it transmit asymptomatically):

" There are reports of asymptomatic infections (detection of virus with no development of symptoms) and pre-symptomatic infections (detection of virus prior to development of symptoms) with SARS-CoV-2, but their role in transmission is not yet known."

I understand why people might think differently based on the news stories we see or what politicians or others say, but seriously we don't know for sure about asymptomatic transmission. I think it's also important to note if you had a mild fever you might not realize it or mild symptoms like scratchy throat or light cough you might think it's allergies but you wouldn't be asymptomatic.  Lots and lots of unknowns here. 

 

 

OK. I can't make anyone believe what the health experts say, but please concede that this a an extremely contagious & dangerous disease. Our rink has a sign on the front door outlining this and how participants are to assume all risk. Why do people want to downplay this? I am not one to decide what is a safe activity and what is not, but why is there such resistance to every precaution possible to protect everyone and get us to a better place?

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Those are the same signs posted everywhere. The gov is now in the business of closing businesses and telling us what to wear. 


for the past 5 billion years viruses  have worked themselves out fine without gov shutdowns. We are adults and should make our own decisions about the risks we want to assume.
 

 

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5 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Torn? What would it take besides all the medical experts telling us how important it is? I just don't get it. I'm so frustrated that everyone is not on board with this. Can we just try it? Because what we are doing now is, obviously, not working.

So why is it that any article you look at prior to 2019 says mask wearing does not reduce the spread of viruses?  I mean almost everyone article says the same thing, now it's the greatest thing since slides bread.  Do you want me to add links to like 20-30 of these?  I just don't understand what is different about this.  And since you brought it up, why are we still seeing doctors and other medical experts still staying it doesn't do much?

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9 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

So why is it that any article you look at prior to 2019 says mask wearing does not reduce the spread of viruses?  I mean almost everyone article says the same thing, now it's the greatest thing since slides bread.  Do you want me to add links to like 20-30 of these?  I just don't understand what is different about this.  And since you brought it up, why are we still seeing doctors and other medical experts still staying it doesn't do much?

I do not see or hear anyone saying wearing a mask is "the best thing since sliced bread" but I hear most health professionals say masks act as a deterrent and help in reducing the spread.  Nowhere have I seen any medical professional say it is a 100% deterrent.  

The only thing I know of that is 100% is you staying home and not interacting or being in a social setting of any kind.

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27 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

The only thing I know of that is 100% is you staying home and not interacting or being in a social setting of any kind.

Correct.  Also, the GOVT should SUGGEST what we should do, but should not FORCE us to do things. 

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2 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

Correct.  Also, the GOVT should SUGGEST what we should do, but should not FORCE us to do things. 

The problem is there are a ton of jagoffs in our society and we march to the speed of said jagoffs, not to the smart people.

Why do we have speed limits on the highway?  Because dumbasses speed, cause accidents or death and rules then need to be applied and enforced to protect others.  You exceed the speed limit and get caught, you get a citation.  

As with masks, the government can suggest wearing them all they want and the Ken’s and Karen’s of the world know more than anyone else (including healthcare professionals and scientists)  and will refuse to wear them because it infringes on their rights and freedoms......or it inhibits their breathing due to a bullshit medical condition they say they have.  

The irresponsible people on this planet ruin things for everyone. And as I have said before, a few minutes of “inconvenience” by wearing a mask so I can go to a restaurant, have a meal and drink a beer or go watch my kid play hockey is a small price to pay than to say I’m gonna do whatever the hell I want while restaurants, bars and ice rinks close down.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 5:15 PM, fafa fohi said:

The problem is there are a ton of jagoffs in our society and we march to the speed of said jagoffs, not to the smart people.

Why do we have speed limits on the highway?  Because dumbasses speed, cause accidents or death and rules then need to be applied and enforced to protect others.  You exceed the speed limit and get caught, you get a citation.  

As with masks, the government can suggest wearing them all they want and the Ken’s and Karen’s of the world know more than anyone else (including healthcare professionals and scientists)  and will refuse to wear them because it infringes on their rights and freedoms......or it inhibits their breathing due to a bullshit medical condition they say they have.  

The irresponsible people on this planet ruin things for everyone. And as I have said before, a few minutes of “inconvenience” by wearing a mask so I can go to a restaurant, have a meal and drink a beer or go watch my kid play hockey is a small price to pay than to say I’m gonna do whatever the hell I want while restaurants, bars and ice rinks close down.

 

I guess I don't feel as strongly about this because when I go out in public, I wear a mask and if I see someone not wearing one, I stay at least 6ft away from them.  I really don't care if anyone else wears one or not. 

If you want to wear one, great, I'll get a little closer to you in the supermarket.  If you don't, great, I'll just keep my distance, and let you catch a disease and kill yourself.

If you want to drive the speed limit, great, I'll drive along side you.  If you want to drive 100mph, great, I'll keep my distance and let you go down the road and kill yourself.

I guess what I am saying is my problem is really that I don't give a crap what anyone else does, what they spend their money on, how they vote, or in all honesty whether they live or die.

I guess I'm just a "jagoff".

 

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2 hours ago, Eddie Shore said:

I guess I don't feel as strongly about this because when I go out in public, I wear a mask and if I see someone not wearing one, I stay at least 6ft away from them.  I really don't care if anyone else wears one or not. 

If you want to wear one, great, I'll get a little closer to you in the supermarket.  If you don't, great, I'll just keep my distance, and let you catch a disease and kill yourself.

If you want to drive the speed limit, great, I'll drive along side you.  If you want to drive 100mph, great, I'll keep my distance and let you go down the road and kill yourself.

I guess what I am saying is my problem is really that I don't give a crap what anyone else does, what they spend their money on, how they vote, or in all honesty whether they live or die.

I guess I'm just a "jagoff".

 

My point is this.......everyone else suffers from other peoples stupidity.  

If someone drives 100 mph, other people on the highway are at risk.  If someone is not wearing a mask and is not 6 ft away, other people are at risk.  How often do you hear of the drunk driver that kills others while the driver survives - are you saying we should not have laws against drunk driving since you personally do not drink and drive?   Jagoffs do not live in a bubble, and what they do can potentially alter the lives of others.  That is why we are a nation of laws.

I for one, do give a crap about what others do when it can effect the lives of  me and my family or others.  

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46 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

My point is this.......everyone else suffers from other peoples stupidity.  

If someone drives 100 mph, other people on the highway are at risk.  If someone is not wearing a mask and is not 6 ft away, other people are at risk.  How often do you hear of the drunk driver that kills others while the driver survives - are you saying we should not have laws against drunk driving since you personally do not drink and drive?   Jagoffs do not live in a bubble, and what they do can potentially alter the lives of others.  That is why we are a nation of laws.

I for one, do give a crap about what others do when it can effect the lives of  me and my family or others.  

Yes. I don't understand how this has to be explained so often. The people that rebel against these regulations are hurting everyone (including themselves.) Even if they are not afraid of dying.... there are so many other issues that continue be a problem (both health and economic) as long as there is widespread community spread. Lowering the rate of transmission is the key to everything. We really could get close to a normal life if everyone was truly in this together.

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12 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Yes. I don't understand how this has to be explained so often. The people that rebel against these regulations are hurting everyone (including themselves.) Even if they are not afraid of dying.... there are so many other issues that continue be a problem (both health and economic) as long as there is widespread community spread. Lowering the rate of transmission is the key to everything. We really could get close to a normal life if everyone was truly in this together.

No social distancing, some people not wearing masks, others not wearing the mask properly.  

2702368_web1_AP20155682556720.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Yes. I don't understand how this has to be explained so often. The people that rebel against these regulations are hurting everyone (including themselves.) Even if they are not afraid of dying.... there are so many other issues that continue be a problem (both health and economic) as long as there is widespread community spread. Lowering the rate of transmission is the key to everything. We really could get close to a normal life if everyone was truly in this together.

Again, I guess I am just a "jagoff" (although I have never heard of that term before).  I guess it's a take on the term a jerk-off.  I'm probably too old and too darn tired to care anymore.  Do whatever y'all want. 

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3 hours ago, Eddie Shore said:

Again, I guess I am just a "jagoff" (although I have never heard of that term before).  I guess it's a take on the term a jerk-off.  I'm probably too old and too darn tired to care anymore.  Do whatever y'all want. 

You must not be from Pittsburgh........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagoff

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6 hours ago, beans said:

No social distancing, some people not wearing masks, others not wearing the mask properly.  

2702368_web1_AP20155682556720.jpg

No social distancing.  No masks.  Indoors at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK.

image.thumb.png.2449e31ef4a47b25f2a5ca37e1a0e0ea.png

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2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

No social distancing.  No masks.  Indoors at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK.

image.thumb.png.2449e31ef4a47b25f2a5ca37e1a0e0ea.png

Not taking a side but wolf says it matters and those people including Trump say it doesn't....

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