Quinlan2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 OK. Science & facts are on one side, so I will take that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said: OK. Science & facts are on one side, so I will take that side. Woooosh. The point just flew over your head. I think you need to go back and read my other posts. I wear a mask when appropriate and socially distance myself. The comparison there was between a politician who says that matters but then does whatever the hell he wants (Wolf) and a politician who says it doesn't matter and does whatever the hell he wants (Trump). Seems like one is following what they actually say out loud. Both are/could be wrong here (in my opinion the likeliest case). You are also the one who, when I put a direct quote from the CDC website, said you would trust experts when I would not. I let it go at the time, returning to it now because you like throwing the science word around so much. So I'm not sure what else to say. Edited July 11, 2020 by aaaahockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlan2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 11 hours ago, aaaahockey said: Woooosh. The point just flew over your head. I think you need to go back and read my other posts. I wear a mask when appropriate and socially distance myself. The comparison there was between a politician who says that matters but then does whatever the hell he wants (Wolf) and a politician who says it doesn't matter and does whatever the hell he wants (Trump). Seems like one is following what they actually say out loud. Both are/could be wrong here (in my opinion the likeliest case). You are also the one who, when I put a direct quote from the CDC website, said you would trust experts when I would not. I let it go at the time, returning to it now because you like throwing the science word around so much. So I'm not sure what else to say. I am not really concentrating on what politicians are saying. Most are trying find some sort of middle ground in an effort to not alienate too many people and lose their votes. Some are way worse than others and put their self-interest way above the health of the public. It seems that the majority of the scientific community is zeroing in on how this virus transmits and what we should do to limit the spread. I can't find any CDC statements inferring that they do not know if it spreads from asymptomatic transmission. Perhaps that was the view early on but it now seems that it is thought that more than half of the infections are transmitted from asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals. Why is it so important for pro athletes to quarantine and get tested almost daily, but many are insisting that youth sports are safe absent such precautions? Like I have said before, I am not sure of the real risk, but it is a giant experiment that I would feel a lot better about with a lower case rate and improved testing standards. It scares me that so many are willing to jump right in no matter what and many of those will be the people responsible for keeping our kids and community safe. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/asymptomatic-presymptomatic-people-transmit-covid-19-infections-study/story?id=71647268 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beans Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 17 hours ago, fafa fohi said: No social distancing. No masks. Indoors at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK. So you hate Trump, I don't care. This thread is about "do as I say, not as I do" Wolf. If these people in OK were in charge of shutting down youth sports in Pa then it would be relevant to the topic, instead it is only deflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said: I am not really concentrating on what politicians are saying. Most are trying find some sort of middle ground in an effort to not alienate too many people and lose their votes. Some are way worse than others and put their self-interest way above the health of the public. It seems that the majority of the scientific community is zeroing in on how this virus transmits and what we should do to limit the spread. I can't find any CDC statements inferring that they do not know if it spreads from asymptomatic transmission. Perhaps that was the view early on but it now seems that it is thought that more than half of the infections are transmitted from asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals. Why is it so important for pro athletes to quarantine and get tested almost daily, but many are insisting that youth sports are safe absent such precautions? Like I have said before, I am not sure of the real risk, but it is a giant experiment that I would feel a lot better about with a lower case rate and improved testing standards. It scares me that so many are willing to jump right in no matter what and many of those will be the people responsible for keeping our kids and community safe. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/asymptomatic-presymptomatic-people-transmit-covid-19-infections-study/story?id=71647268 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html Scroll down to transmission and "when is someone contagious?" You will see the exact quote I told you came from the CDC a couple days ago: "There are reports of asymptomatic infections (detection of virus with no development of symptoms) and pre-symptomatic infections (detection of virus prior to development of symptoms) with SARS-CoV-2, but their role in transmission is not yet known." - CDC We don't have enough information regardless of what he said or she said or ABC said. Note the study you linked there was a "mathematical model" not a real study of real people. The WHO is on the same page as the CDC and has actually gone as far as to say "rarely". Edited July 11, 2020 by aaaahockey Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlan2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, aaaahockey said: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html Scroll down to transmission and "when is someone contagious?" You will see the exact quote I told you came from the CDC a couple days ago: "There are reports of asymptomatic infections (detection of virus with no development of symptoms) and pre-symptomatic infections (detection of virus prior to development of symptoms) with SARS-CoV-2, but their role in transmission is not yet known." - CDC We don't have enough information regardless of what he said or she said or ABC said. Note the study you linked there was a "mathematical model" not a real study of real people. The WHO is on the same page as the CDC and has actually gone as far as to say "rarely". Fair enough. I see where that came from. That seems like an outdated statement, but we all should give credence to what is posted by the CDC. But do we really think there are that many sick people out there recklessly transmitting this? I do remember when the WHO mentioned "rarely". They did walk that back and said that we just don't know. Most of the evidence points to a ton of asymptomatic spread so it's all about who you believe and who you don't. The bottom line is... I'm just uncomfortable about how so many seem sure that participating in contact youth sport is safe. This is risky based on the unknowns and everyone has a stake. That includes people not even involved in youth sports as the spread of this disease affects everyone in so many ways. Maybe it can be done and maybe it's a bad idea. Can we at least agree that this a a very fluid situation and people have legitimate concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said: Fair enough. I see where that came from. That seems like an outdated statement, but we all should give credence to what is posted by the CDC. But do we really think there are that many sick people out there recklessly transmitting this? I do remember when the WHO mentioned "rarely". They did walk that back and said that we just don't know. Most of the evidence points to a ton of asymptomatic spread so it's all about who you believe and who you don't. The bottom line is... I'm just uncomfortable about how so many seem sure that participating in contact youth sport is safe. This is risky based on the unknowns and everyone has a stake. That includes people not even involved in youth sports as the spread of this disease affects everyone in so many ways. Maybe it can be done and maybe it's a bad idea. Can we at least agree that this a a very fluid situation and people have legitimate concerns? I agree there are a lot of concerns and anyone's concern can be legitimate. The bigger debate we are all having is when your concern becomes my requirement to do something and to what limits I have to do it (wear a mask, not eat in a restaurant, not play sports). Honestly I have very little if any concern about the children playing sports (or going to school for that matter) themselves. They are very unlikely to have anything near serious effects of coronavirus and in their age group it might be even less risky than playing during flu season (which I believe kills children at a higher rate than coronavirus depending on what strain of flu). I can understand people, especially with pre-existing conditions or compromised immune systems (and generally old) worried about kids bringing it home to them although I believe some of those concerns are overplayed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlan2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, aaaahockey said: I agree there are a lot of concerns and anyone's concern can be legitimate. The bigger debate we are all having is when your concern becomes my requirement to do something and to what limits I have to do it (wear a mask, not eat in a restaurant, not play sports). Honestly I have very little if any concern about the children playing sports (or going to school for that matter) themselves. They are very unlikely to have anything near serious effects of coronavirus and in their age group it might be even less risky than playing during flu season (which I believe kills children at a higher rate than coronavirus depending on what strain of flu). I can understand people, especially with pre-existing conditions or compromised immune systems (and generally old) worried about kids bringing it home to them although I believe some of those concerns are overplayed as well. Yep. It's a fine line we have to walk on with requirements & mandates. This is an extremely complicated issue. We all want to get to the same place. How quickly we get there is largely based on how we behave through all of this. The downplaying of it is what upsets me sometimes. I don't think you are doing that but many are. That just makes it worse. Even if you don't consider it a health disaster it will continue to be an economic & social one as long as case counts are high. So we need to refrain from doing things that keep the case count high. Is that youth sports? I dont know for sure, but it's got to be scrutinized. I keep trying to convince myself that hockey is safe, but then I always think of a situation that may present a problem. Yes. I do have an anxiety issue. I have trouble sleeping at night thinking about my kids and trying to solve problems that I am not qualified to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafa fohi Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, beans said: So you hate Trump, I don't care. This thread is about "do as I say, not as I do" Wolf. If these people in OK were in charge of shutting down youth sports in Pa then it would be relevant to the topic, instead it is only deflection. I simply pointed to the idiocy of your comment and photo. You tried to make a political statement and I called you out for not looking at the entire picture. Next time, think.......you won’t look so silly in the process. Edited July 11, 2020 by fafa fohi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 This might offended some, o well. When a man cuts his parts of and transitions into a woman, that is a mental disorder. We are not not talking about straight, gay or bi people ( that’s another debate) How does this person become a “doctor” and head of the states health department ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 7:14 PM, Danner27 said: This might offended some, o well. When a man cuts his parts of and transitions into a woman, that is a mental disorder. We are not not talking about straight, gay or bi people ( that’s another debate) How does this person become a “doctor” and head of the states health department ? That is pretty awful, offensive and has nothing to do with hockey. Can't people go talk politics and COVID somewhere else? This board sucks more than usual. I can't believe it, but I miss histrionics over Pens Elite cutting little Johnny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Saucey said: That is pretty awful, offensive and has nothing to do with hockey. Can't people go talk politics and COVID somewhere else? This board sucks more than usual. I can't believe it, but I miss histrionics over Pens Elite cutting little Johnny. He had to say something once his mission to shut down ice castle didn't work.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBLJ Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 This thread was doomed from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Baxter Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Time to lock this thread and move on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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