Midam/USA hockey decision on hockey

[Quinlan2020]

17 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

This is completely different than alpha running a tournament how they want. This is the sanctioning body that governs hockey in the United States.  

OK. Makes sense. The no checking thing would be fine with me if it sticks, but I don't have any AA/AAA caliber players. They will never end up playing high school hockey. I understand the other side as well. It seems to me that it would make sense to keep checking out of youth hockey unless it's A major or higher.

[hockeyisgreat]

I just watched a bantam scrimmage this morning. Game was played as normal. Yes they had Refs. No mention of any of the above. You would think that something would be on the USA website by now.   All teams in the PAHL have been selected with full rosters. People are paying season fees. Who is going to tell them they can't come to a game because 0nly 9 players are allowed. If this happens a lot of people are going to want their money back. I would also think a class action suit against USA Hockey would be considered to get registration fees back as this is not what we signed up for.

[Danner27]

17 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

OK. Makes sense. The no checking thing would be fine with me if it sticks, but I don't have any AA/AAA caliber players. They will never end up playing high school hockey. I understand the other side as well. It seems to me that it would make sense to keep checking out of youth hockey unless it's A major or higher.

They have been wanting to remove checking for years, stats show once checking starts kids stop playing. That’s why they took it out of pw years back. Canada has non checking leagues now.

its not about tier 1, tier 2 etc, it’s about keeping people signed up. To me it’s not hockey If checking is removed regardless of the skill level. The game is completely changed, this is even more true at the midget level. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Danner27

[Ynot02]

2 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

That makes sense, but it seems like a hard thing to draw these fine lines and say this rink is better suited than this rink for these rules. It's like saying that the speed limit for Jeeps is 45 in the same place that it is 65 for cars that are less prone to rollover. I get what you are saying, but I think these finely targeted rules will cause more anger than satisfaction even if they are geared toward common sense. I don't have a solution to this. Things are just so complicated right now and I just don't sense any strong leadership from anyone.

Sorry - I wasn’t clear. I wasn’t suggesting different rules for every rink. I’m talking about indoor venue size, regardless of if it’s sports related. But to use sports as an example, a volleyball or basketball team plays in a smaller venue and playing area than a hockey rink. Why shouldn’t the capacity be scaled to venue size?  I get that it means more people, but a bigger area should be able to handle more people. That was the argument with the car show. Yes, it was outside, but there was enough space to maintain social distancing. 

[Danner27]

I’ve talked to people around the country, nobodies districts are being very clear. Denver told the districts to abide by state  laws, this is causing a lot of confusion. 
 

Do we have a PAHL or PIHL higher up around here that can give how they are interpreting things ? AAA will be a complete mess traveling to other states, every state has different rules. Someone involved in the ushl told me don’t expect them to start playing games until Jan 2021. 
 

the PIAA goes against the governor’s recommendation, declares all fall sports are a good in PA. Football teams will have 50 kids per side line, refs, coaches, trainers and emt’s. PIHL, being a club sport, waits to see what the piaa does now gets the rug yanked out from under them by USA hockey. AAA & PAHL don’t have a leg to stand on because USA hockey, even the rogue usphl put out a statement (similar to what USA hockey is doing) that state laws must be followed by its members. 
 

In PA you can play a contact sport like football were you have over 100 people on the field. Yet hockey that has a total of 45 or so with refs has to be played with modified rules and no contact. Sorry folks, I’m lost at this point and thankful my kids are done. Hockey needs all its players to bill the ice bills, you cannot start cutting teams in half at any level or league.  
 

@Scooby Doo what did you hear today ? 

[Quinlan2020]

So, I guess this is just a really slow moving story. There is nothing official about this anywhere.

I think comparing hockey & football is a bit of a stretch. Hockey is usually played indoors. All the experts that I have heard have made it clear that indoor transmission is many times more likely than outdoor. It would be nice if we could get a lot of outdoor ice time for these kids during this crisis. I also don't understand why the kids are still spending time in locker rooms (maskless, I have heard.) It seems easy enough to get changing stations set up outside in all that empty parking space. Bad weather will create a challenge but rinks with big lobbies could accommodate.

[bender05]

From our hockey org:

 

As such, we were told that in order to be sanctioned by USA Hockey we needed to follow our state’s rules.  If we do not follow the state’s rules, then we are participating in non-sanctioned activity.
 

On August 6^th, the State Health Department updated its guidance on youth sports.  This guidance included a 25 person limit for indoor sporting events (See Attached .PDF). 

 

So, why is Sanctioning important?  Because aside from giving us the playing rules and structure under which we operate, USA Hockey provides insurance to cover our players and coaches.  This insurance is designed to help participants cover medical expense after they have paid a certain deductible out of their own pocket.  Also, USA Hockey provides coverage for catastrophic incidents.  Please see pages 5 through 10 of the attached Insurance Handbook.

 

This insurance coverage is vital to every hockey organization.  While severe injuries are rare, they do happen.  They have happened locally to individuals playing in the Pittsburgh area.

 

So, we are telling our teams to comply with the 25 person rule when they do any sort of scrimmages.  To accomplish this, We are saying to play 9 skaters and 1 goalie on each team.  Throw in the refs, EMT, and one person in the scorebox, and we will be around the 25.  Is this ideal?  Absolutely not, and we are working to overcome it.

[Novos51]

This clearly sucks as the 25 person rule in effect for sports but 25% or 50% for other indoor things. 
 

If your kid is not playing 1/2 the games or rotating in and out of the locker rooms how many people are going to say hell with it. 
 

AAA? It’s going to be a financial bloodbath. 

[Wes]

4 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I’ve talked to people around the country, nobodies districts are being very clear. Denver told the districts to abide by state  laws, this is causing a lot of confusion. 
 

Do we have a PAHL or PIHL higher up around here that can give how they are interpreting things ? AAA will be a complete mess traveling to other states, every state has different rules. Someone involved in the ushl told me don’t expect them to start playing games until Jan 2021. 
 

the PIAA goes against the governor’s recommendation, declares all fall sports are a good in PA. Football teams will have 50 kids per side line, refs, coaches, trainers and emt’s. PIHL, being a club sport, waits to see what the piaa does now gets the rug yanked out from under them by USA hockey. AAA & PAHL don’t have a leg to stand on because USA hockey, even the rogue usphl put out a statement (similar to what USA hockey is doing) that state laws must be followed by its members. 
 

In PA you can play a contact sport like football were you have over 100 people on the field. Yet hockey that has a total of 45 or so with refs has to be played with modified rules and no contact. Sorry folks, I’m lost at this point and thankful my kids are done. Hockey needs all its players to bill the ice bills, you cannot start cutting teams in half at any level or league.  
 

@Scooby Doo what did you hear today ? 

Had our game today.  Zero restrictions at the rink (in Westmoreland county).  Full teams on the benches.  Ref on the ice and several parents in the stands. Nobody from the rink cracked down on anything.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Scooby Doo

[Quinlan2020]

So where did the 4 on 4, no checking stuff come from?

[aaaahockey]

40 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

So where did the 4 on 4, no checking stuff come from?

I don't know about the checking part, but with 9 skaters 5 v 5 would be pretty hard. On the flip side we can help the kids get ready for their transition to beer hockey when no one shows up 

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said:

So where did the 4 on 4, no checking stuff come from?

Denver to the districts, read the above post what was sent to a Pahl org.

 

[Quinlan2020]

19 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Denver to the districts, read the above post what was sent to a Pahl org.

 

Thanks but I don't see any such post. Sorry, It's probably me just missing something. I would love it if you would just post a quote or a link.

[dazedandconfused]

I'd like to pose this question, "has anyone on this forum EVER received a penny from the USA hockey insurance program?". Better yet, does anyone even know anyone or heard of anyone that has?"

I know plenty of people whom have had injuries and your personal insurance is the first thing that gets billed. Then if there is anything left to pay, I believe that it can be submitted to this "insurance policy".

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Thanks but I don't see any such post. Sorry, It's probably me just missing something. I would love it if you would just post a quote or a link.

It was posted by @bender05 look up. 

[Danner27]

32 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

I'd like to pose this question, "has anyone on this forum EVER received a penny from the USA hockey insurance program?". Better yet, does anyone even know anyone or heard of anyone that has?"

I know plenty of people whom have had injuries and your personal insurance is the first thing that gets billed. Then if there is anything left to pay, I believe that it can be submitted to this "insurance policy".

My 99 cracked his pelvis in a Bantam game, we never bothered to submit anything because my health insurance covered everything. To answer your question - no. 

[Quinlan2020]

41 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

It was posted by @bender05 look up. 

OK.Thanks. I saw that but still don't see any mention of PAHL. PAHL site makes no mention and I am yet to see any site of a PAHL organization refer to it.

[hockey2020]

does bender’s post say anything about no checking? i am missing it for some reason. i know of org’s splitting teams up for scrimmages to stick to the 25 person limit but i personally ha e not heard of any going non-checking. is that official?

[Quinlan2020]

24 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

does bender’s post say anything about no checking? i am missing it for some reason. i know of org’s splitting teams up for scrimmages to stick to the 25 person limit but i personally ha e not heard of any going non-checking. is that official?

I am missing it too. I would think that there would be some official info somewhere regarding this. I have also been wondering how they have been handling practices. I was told back in June that there was a 20 player limit on the ice. That would mean 10 players per side during the half-ice sessions. The team rosters that are posted have around 17 players per team so some would have to sit out. Are they actually sticking to that or cheating? My kids have friends that have told them that the mask thing isn't being enforced. That's definitely not surprising.

[Danner27]

I got the information about no contact from a district friend, word from denver to the districts - if the game can not be played  under normal circumstances there is to be no contact. 

[aaaahockey]

My understanding of the Mid-Am guidance is exactly what Danner said about Denver. They told everyone to abide by state rules.  So PA we have the 25 person indoor limit for recreational sports. Different in NY, Indiana, Ohio, WV, etc.  

[forbin]

So I guess we can expect some games to be scheduled at North Park, South Park, Schenley, RMU open air rink when those are up and running? 

Edited August 24, 2020 by forbin
Spelling

[aaaahockey]

3 hours ago, forbin said:

So I guess we can expect some games to be scheduled at North Park, South Park, Schenley, RMU open air rink when those are up and running? 

Tons if they do open. I wondered about RMU does it count as outdoor?

[Racchi’s Rug]

The RMU idea is intriguing. Having played beer league there I can tell you that the boards on the outdoor rink are very high and don’t give much, checking there would be brutal. It would be cool to see the classic outdoor rinks at the parks reopened for regular hockey. Maybe the Pens would do something like they did at Highmark Stadium a few years back (doubtful) if outdoor becomes the norm. 

[Danner27]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:58 PM, Scooby Doo said:

Had our game today.  Zero restrictions at the rink (in Westmoreland county).  Full teams on the benches.  Ref on the ice and several parents in the stands. Nobody from the rink cracked down on anything.

Nobody cracked down, that is the key. Both teams were told the scrimmage was to be played 4 on 4 with 10 players per team.