Midam/USA hockey decision on hockey

[What the..]

2 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

Masks were "recommended" at the beginning, until they realized that nobody was wearing them. They went and made them mandatory. I think that the Governor is likely to double down on the limits rather than remove them, unless the legislature is successful in removing that option. Seems to me that there is a very good chance that those rinks that are not following the guidelines will cause a total shutdown of hockey for that reason. i hope very much that I am wrong here.

So these rinks have been open for business as usual with full teams etc and nothing has happened in 4-5 months! No Covid outbreak! That should tell you something. 

[Lifelongbender]

3 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I dunno. If they haven't gotten in trouble to this point what makes you think that's gonna change?  I'm sure jealous parents have called the health department on all the rinks doing what they want but we still haven't seen much change. Just curious...

I don’t have any reason to think it will change other than their refusal to relax the rules. And the way they’ve behaved in the past when their recommendations were not followed. 
 

I hope you’re right. I really do. Me, I think masks are stupid but I wear mine and follow the stupid pointless rules because the consequences might be dire indeed. 

[aaaahockey]

8 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

I don’t have any reason to think it will change other than their refusal to relax the rules. And the way they’ve behaved in the past when their recommendations were not followed. 
 

I hope you’re right. I really do. Me, I think masks are stupid but I wear mine and follow the stupid pointless rules because the consequences might be dire indeed. 

I think we are on the same page with the rules.  I just wonder if nothing has happened to date I don't see anyone making a stink (unless there really were an outbreak tied to a rink, which as "What the..." Pointed out we haven't actually seen. 

[hockeyisgreat]

9 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

Masks were "recommended" at the beginning, until they realized that nobody was wearing them. They went and made them mandatory. I think that the Governor is likely to double down on the limits rather than remove them, unless the legislature is successful in removing that option. Seems to me that there is a very good chance that those rinks that are not following the guidelines will cause a total shutdown of hockey for that reason. i hope very much that I am wrong here.

The way I see it it's not the rinks job to enforce a 25 limit on sports.  The rink sells the ice and doesn't care how it is used other than making sure that they don't exceed the capacity limit. Is it 25 or 50 percent for indoor recreation facilities.

[hockeyisgreat]

That's why I think the mandate is real hard to enforce.  I guess the governor could fine the PAHL if they are not in compliance. Don't think I have heard of any place being fined or cited other than bars. They threaten to revoke their liquor license which would shut them down.

[carroll81]

I don't think the issue is really about enforcement.  The potential issue is that once in a lifetime catastrophic injury or penalty.  Somehow it ends up in court and the governing bodies are gonna say, they were not following local rules, so we did not sanction, so we have no liability.  To most this will not matter, but to the party involved it could be a big deal.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, carroll81 said:

I don't think the issue is really about enforcement.  The potential issue is that once in a lifetime catastrophic injury or penalty.  Somehow it ends up in court and the governing bodies are gonna say, they were not following local rules, so we did not sanction, so we have no liability.  To most this will not matter, but to the party involved it could be a big deal.

Yeah but they are going to say the same thing even if it was sanctioned.   What if a kid snaps his neck in a non-covid world?  Same rules apply. 

[BeaverFalls]

2 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Yeah but they are going to say the same thing even if it was sanctioned.   What if a kid snaps his neck in a non-covid world?  Same rules apply. 

Very true. But...it is still scaring the shit out of people thinking somehow they’d be held liable. 

If nothing else comes of this, maybe a growth of AAU etc to knock down the USA hockey monopoly. 

[PuckHead7]

Anybody play games this past weekend?  How did your team play them?  Local only!  Don’t want to hear about Cleveland, etc.  You don’t have to name your team.  Just trying to gauge what teams are doing locally.  Playing full games, full benches, full contact, and what rink?

[hockeyisgreat]

40 minutes ago, PuckHead7 said:

Anybody play games this past weekend?  How did your team play them?  Local only!  Don’t want to hear about Cleveland, etc.  You don’t have to name your team.  Just trying to gauge what teams are doing locally.  Playing full games, full benches, full contact, and what rink?

So if I read the PAHL Calender Summary correctly they don't even schedule regular season games till after October 11th for 12U and up?  Seems like a long time from the start of the season till games start. Hopefully it gives enough time to get rid of the 25 person mandate. Gives me a little hope that it might happen although I think it all depends on the numbers in the next 2 weeks to see if we get a spike from Labor Day parties.. I think everybody that can is playing out of State to get regular games in.  Way to take the money out of PA Governor!

[PUCKCOVID19]

2 hours ago, PuckHead7 said:

Anybody play games this past weekend?  How did your team play them?  Local only!  Don’t want to hear about Cleveland, etc.  You don’t have to name your team.  Just trying to gauge what teams are doing locally.  Playing full games, full benches, full contact, and what rink?

2005 Preds AAa vs 2005 Hornets aaa was at Ice castle this weekend ( sat night and Sunday morning ).  Full bench, tons of parents

[Hockey22]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:43 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

yes!!! you are correct their rinks opened up Wednesday and Thursday of this past week. 2 parents per player MAX!!!  

With players wearing MASKS on the ice - They are going to have a hard time getting teams to come play in MI with this stipulation...fro MAYA website (https://www.maha.org/news_article/show/1121369) 

"As you know, on Thursday the Michigan Governor issued Executive Orders 175  and 176 that provide for a process to restart hockey and other youth sports in Michigan. Part of that EO requires that all athletes except swimmers where a “facial covering” while on the “field of play.” EO 2020-176.7(b).  You may also be aware that the USA Hockey Safety Committee has published information on helmet face shields and masks that indicate that the CDC and WHO believe wearing a cloth mask during high intensity aerobic activity is not recommended.  The Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MDHHS) has issued similar guidance.  While the CDC, WHO an MDHHS have provided recommendations, the Governor’s current order seems inconsistent with those recommendations, as well as similar guidance from the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MDHHS).  We also do not know whether the exceptions in Executive Order 153 addressing when a face covering is not required apply to Executive Order 176.  

MAHA, and others organizations, are seeking further clarification on EO 2020-176.  Until such time as the government issues a clarification or change this is what we must follow if we plan to resume play on September 9. MAHA is not requiring any more than what is set out in EO 2020-176.  Some of the feedback we have received indicates that other organizations would not require this Executive Order to be followed. I can assure you that they’re required to follow these same guidelines, and I would be very leery of an organization that is not taking this order and the safety of participants seriously.

While wearing facial covering may not be ideal in the opinion of some, similar standards are being enforced on DI college football teams that are practicing as well as in youth hockey in Colorado and Massachusetts (face offs only). We aware of at least one hockey equipment manufacturer that has facial coverings that attach to the inside of a mask with may be a more preferential option for our sport. Unfortunately, we are hearing that product will not be available until early October. 

MAHA wants our membership to return to the ice on September 9. To do that we must follow the EO’s that are in place until such time as they change. We have worked hard for months to get hockey back to this point where we can restart activity.  At this time, MAHA is of the position that a facial covering is required while on the ice but we expect further clarification in the near future.  MAHA believes this can be accomplished in a number of ways and it is up to the participant to comply with current requirements.  To ignore Executive Orders could lead to hockey being shut back down before it gets going. As you know this has been a very fluid situation with changes occurring on a regular basis. Parents certainly have the right to withhold participation of the players if they feel the guidelines may cause health issues for their son or daughter. "

[BeaverFalls]

This can’t be real, can it?

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, BeaverFalls said:

This can’t be real, can it?

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s real. Covid has been completely politicized.   

[Guru]

4 hours ago, Hockey22 said:

With players wearing MASKS on the ice - They are going to have a hard time getting teams to come play in MI with this stipulation...fro MAYA website (https://www.maha.org/news_article/show/1121369) 

Need to do a bit of research.  MAHA is requiring Covid info from any area that a team desires to play in out of state. (Tournament, scrimmage, league play).  
 

Appears that out of staters aren’t welcome In Michigan either   

No locker rooms, must arrive at rink dressed and depart once game completed. 
 

Concession  sales also prohibited by EO

Edited September 8, 2020 by Guru

[gatorlb]

5 hours ago, Guru said:

Need to do a bit of research.  MAHA is requiring Covid info from any area that a team desires to play in out of state. (Tournament, scrimmage, league play).  
 

Appears that out of staters aren’t welcome In Michigan either   

No locker rooms, must arrive at rink dressed and depart once game completed. 
 

Concession  sales also prohibited by EO

This is not true.  They are requiring contact information for contact tracing purposes only. 
Locker room availability is based on the arena policy.  Some allow and some don’t currently.  I expect this to relax more now that rinks are legally allowed to be open.

Full text of the guidelines are here

https://cdn4.sportngin.com/attachments/document/1ace-2250057/MAHA_Return_to_Play_Standards_-_2020-21_FINAL_Draft.pdf#_ga=2.75479506.1116179089.1599619648-996059422.1599619648

[Guru]

7 hours ago, gatorlb said:

This is not true.  They are requiring contact information for contact tracing purposes only. 
Locker room availability is based on the arena policy.  Some allow and some don’t currently.  I expect this to relax more now that rinks are legally allowed to be open.

Full text of the guidelines are here

https://cdn4.sportngin.com/attachments/document/1ace-2250057/MAHA_Return_to_Play_Standards_-_2020-21_FINAL_Draft.pdf#_ga=2.75479506.1116179089.1599619648-996059422.1599619648

My source who is a coach shared his organizations rules for season.   He has NO reason to exaggerate stipulations under which they have to operate  
 

Remember this is a state where the governor shut down non essential parts of Walmart’s 

[Guru]

7 hours ago, gatorlb said:

This is not true.  They are requiring contact information for contact tracing purposes only. 
Locker room availability is based on the arena policy.  Some allow and some don’t currently.  I expect this to relax more now that rinks are legally allowed to be open.

Full text of the guidelines are here

https://cdn4.sportngin.com/attachments/document/1ace-2250057/MAHA_Return_to_Play_Standards_-_2020-21_FINAL_Draft.pdf#_ga=2.75479506.1116179089.1599619648-996059422.1599619648

My source who is a coach shared his organizations rules for season.   He has NO reason to exaggerate stipulations under which they have to operate  
 

The recent EO confirms what he told me

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Guru

[carroll81]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:34 PM, aaaahockey said:

Yeah but they are going to say the same thing even if it was sanctioned.   What if a kid snaps his neck in a non-covid world?  Same rules apply. 

If your team is playing in a sanctioned event, then the USA Hockey and related insurance is in force.  If you are playing in a non-sanctioned event, then you are own for insurance coverage.  This includes players, officials, rinks and organizations.  Goes back to everything The King used to preach about USAH.

[aaaahockey]

24 minutes ago, carroll81 said:

If your team is playing in a sanctioned event, then the USA Hockey and related insurance is in force.  If you are playing in a non-sanctioned event, then you are own for insurance coverage.  This includes players, officials, rinks and organizations.  Goes back to everything The King used to preach about USAH.

We had this conversation about this earlier and no one ever heard of USAH insurance actually ever covering anything.  Are there examples of it?

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

We had this conversation about this earlier and no one ever heard of USAH insurance actually ever covering anything.  Are there examples of it?

I don't think most people know about it. The rinks do, not sure if there is anyone who can speak to it.

[aaaahockey]

41 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I don't think most people know about it. The rinks do, not sure if there is anyone who can speak to it.

Rinks would need to have insurance other than USAH because they allow a wide range of activities not included.  Local teams might need to have it but even then I'm very unclear what it would cover. 

[4thlinerefugee]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:02 AM, PuckHead7 said:

Anybody play games this past weekend?  How did your team play them?  Local only!  Don’t want to hear about Cleveland, etc.  You don’t have to name your team.  Just trying to gauge what teams are doing locally.  Playing full games, full benches, full contact, and what rink?

We played Pee Wee in a tournament in the Hershey Area. It was 9 skaters and a goalie, 1 coach. The kids played 2 halves of 5 on 5 hockey. You could switch players at the half. Was it perfect no, did the kids seem to have fun absolutely.

[Danner27]

I was Just told 18U “AAA” Icemen lost to team Ohio AA, predators AA and Ashburn AA. 

[carroll81]

6 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

We had this conversation about this earlier and no one ever heard of USAH insurance actually ever covering anything.  Are there examples of it?

USAH insurance, for players, is a supplement for health insurance.  It would pick up something that your normal health insurance does not.  I know of 2 people that used it.  But the claims process is a pain and it is only after other insurance and $1000 deductible are met.

This is really not the insurance issue I mean.  The areas that are bigger concern are Catastrophic Injury (for players) and Liability Coverage (rinks and organizations, including coaches).