Midam/USA hockey decision on hockey

[fafa fohi]

12 hours ago, Eddie Shore said:

Same side?  Buddy, you and I ain’t on the same side of anything.  I find you repulsive and all you stand for.  I only hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gains.  The truth is coming out now

https://www.newsweek.com/nashville-officials-withheld-covid-numbers-restaurants-bars-because-cases-were-so-low-emails-show-1532641?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&fbclid=IwAR3HdazVXAubMPInqCTa4kX8ZfrnAZiGcZxicKfLZ3wvs9Q2ZPY2wukClC8#Echobox=1600360716

 

You have some major anger issues, Ed.  This forum is about civil debate and people are allowed to have and express opinions that may be different from yours.  Debate is healthy and my opinions on many issues related to this outbreak have changed over time, especially when it comes to the sport of hockey.  I am in line with your thinking on this topic far more than I am with @Quinlan2020

I have disagreed big time with many members of this thread and I admit, I am a stubborn guy and my stubbornness sometimes gets the best of me.  But for you to "hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gain" is downright vile.  

Edited September 19, 2020 by fafa fohi

[Saucey]

59 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

You have some major anger issues, Ed.  This forum is about civil debate and people are allowed to have and express opinions that may be different from yours.  Debate is healthy and my opinions on many issues related to this outbreak have changed over time, especially when it comes to the sport of hockey.  I am in line with your thinking on this topic far more than I am with @Quinlan2020

I have disagreed big time with many members of this thread and I admit, I am a stubborn guy and my stubbornness sometimes gets the best of me.  But for you to "hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gain" is downright vile.  

I felt an immediate sense of repulsion as well.

But since when has this forum ibeen about civil discourse?  It is a microcosm of how people talk to each other. The discourse on this board is infantile at best most days. 

Where does civil discourse take place in our country? Can you think of one? We certainly don't see it in our sport, where the angry parent feels entirely free to berate players, refs and coaches loudly from the stands.

I'd rather just talk hockey.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

You have some major anger issues, Ed.  This forum is about civil debate and people are allowed to have and express opinions that may be different from yours.  Debate is healthy and my opinions on many issues related to this outbreak have changed over time, especially when it comes to the sport of hockey.  I am in line with your thinking on this topic far more than I am with @Quinlan2020

I have disagreed big time with many members of this thread and I admit, I am a stubborn guy and my stubbornness sometimes gets the best of me.  But for you to "hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gain" is downright vile.  

As Eddie has pointed out before, he is one of the people who has been directly impacted and harmed by the terrible policy choices that have been made by our governor. Most hockey people are lucky and don't have to do anything but teach their kids and work at home but he felt the brunt that millions of others in our state did. While the reply might have been a little crude, he's just tired of rich, unaffected crybabies talking about how good this shutdown crap has been because they live in their own little luxury bubbles.  If you lost your job and most of your family income like millions of regular people because wolf is an @$#hat you might be angry too. 

[nemesis8679]

Maybe directing your anger at the federal government, who has remained unable- but probably more accurately unwilling- to step in and help its citizens who are in a tough spot. Lord knows there's been no problem when corporate America needs financial help. 1200 bucks to get people through six months and counting? That's unacceptable. The shutdowns are what they are, were necessary, and you can't help that. But the response has been severely lacking. 

[Eddie Shore]

14 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

You have some major anger issues, Ed.  This forum is about civil debate and people are allowed to have and express opinions that may be different from yours.  Debate is healthy and my opinions on many issues related to this outbreak have changed over time, especially when it comes to the sport of hockey.  I am in line with your thinking on this topic far more than I am with @Quinlan2020

I have disagreed big time with many members of this thread and I admit, I am a stubborn guy and my stubbornness sometimes gets the best of me.  But for you to "hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gain" is downright vile.  

You are correct.  Major anger issues.  I have them.  We will see how you feel when a government can step in at any time and take away your entire life (your business, your income, your home and everything you have worked for your entire life) for no reason.

[aaaahockey]

Right on time!  https://tribhssn.triblive.com/gov-wolf-legislation-to-allow-more-sports-spectators-will-be-vetoed-today/ 

[whatever]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:20 AM, nemesis8679 said:

Maybe directing your anger at the federal government, who has remained unable- but probably more accurately unwilling- to step in and help its citizens who are in a tough spot. Lord knows there's been no problem when corporate America needs financial help. 1200 bucks to get people through six months and counting? That's unacceptable. The shutdowns are what they are, were necessary, and you can't help that. But the response has been severely lacking. 

Read today Allegheny county has had 354 deaths.  66 of those were outside of nursing homes.  1.2 million people in the county and 66 deaths outside of nursing homes but countless livelihoods destroyed because of a governor acting completely on his whim along with an un`elected health secretary.   It didn't need to be this way.   This devastation is a state issue. All states are not equal.  Pa is being screwed by a true dictator. 

[Quinlan2020]

7 hours ago, whatever said:

Read today Allegheny county has had 354 deaths.  66 of those were outside of nursing homes.  1.2 million people in the county and 66 deaths outside of nursing homes but countless livelihoods destroyed because of a governor acting completely on his whim along with an un`elected health secretary.   It didn't need to be this way.   This devastation is a state issue. All states are not equal.  Pa is being screwed by a true dictator. 

Were any lives outside of nursing homes saved due to restrictions? I won't ask the same question pertaining to nursing homes since your post seems to imply that those lives are not as valuable.

[nemesis8679]

Were those deaths humans, or sacrificial lambs? How many were saved by restrictions? I bet that's a countless number, too. 

Again, the government could have and should be doing more to help those affected. Blame them for why you are where you are. Security for the people of the country is their job. 

If you were an airline, trust fund, auto manufacturer, or a bank- you would have been helped 10 times over. A small business owner or worker, and not so much. 

The whole ordeal has shown some cracks in the American armor. If you want to be blind to that, and center 100% of your dismay solely on the governor that's your right. But then don't expect things to get better. 

[Lifelongbender]

3 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Were any lives outside of nursing homes saved due to restrictions? I won't ask the same question pertaining to nursing homes since your post seems to imply that those lives are not as valuable.

We can never know, can we? (I know that you think you do know, but honestly we just don't. My level of blind faith in masking is not as high as yours, and my science is less about confirmation bias than yours, too. Just because you believe something to be true, even based upon whatever evidence you can cite, doesn't make it so, because in this case there is only one trial, and the data is inherently inconclusive.)

For the record, I read his post not as implying that nursing home deaths were less significant, but that they are a special case, and not the population at large. Not less valuable, but less useful for evaluation of the effects on a population at large.

[Quinlan2020]

20 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

We can never know, can we? (I know that you think you do know, but honestly we just don't. My level of blind faith in masking is not as high as yours, and my science is less about confirmation bias than yours, too. Just because you believe something to be true, even based upon whatever evidence you can cite, doesn't make it so, because in this case there is only one trial, and the data is inherently inconclusive.)

For the record, I read his post not as implying that nursing home deaths were less significant, but that they are a special case, and not the population at large. Not less valuable, but less useful for evaluation of the effects on a population at large.

I am not claiming to know the number of lives saved. I really don't know. I don't know a lot about public health or epidemiology. I also don't know enough to claim that the decisions to implement safety measures/restrictions for Covid-19 mitigation are motivated by the desire to oppress the public and take away our rights. Some seem sure of that. It does make sense that the more community spread that there is, the higher the risk of it getting into nursing homes. Those ~300 deaths that were mentioned did not originate in the nursing home. They likely started from someone that contracted the disease and may have not even known they had it. That source may not have even showed up in the case count as they were never tested. They just passed it on and it was never traced to any place or activity. I'm not exactly sure what to do about that. Nobody really is. The people making decisions don't know but they are tasked with trying. The simple solution is to do nothing as some seem to suggest. Is it that simple?

[HockeyMom5]

https://t.co/ZBky0yIycY

[forbin]

Should a different approach be taken? Instead of writing bills to eliminate the restrictions completely, what about asking to write a bill that makes them slightly more lenient? For example 75 people indoor and 350 outdoor. 

75 people indoor would more than suffice to allow full roster games and spectators. None of this would be an issue at all. Parents would still need to socially distance and wear masks but the season would go on as "normal"

 

[hockey55]

On 9/18/2020 at 7:31 PM, Eddie Shore said:

Same side?  Buddy, you and I ain’t on the same side of anything.  I find you repulsive and all you stand for.  I only hope you and your family feel the same pain as others by having their lives destroyed by others for nothing more than political gains.  The truth is coming out now

https://www.newsweek.com/nashville-officials-withheld-covid-numbers-restaurants-bars-because-cases-were-so-low-emails-show-1532641?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&fbclid=IwAR3HdazVXAubMPInqCTa4kX8ZfrnAZiGcZxicKfLZ3wvs9Q2ZPY2wukClC8#Echobox=1600360716

 

I also find it frustrating when PA has the same exact #s of deaths per 100,000 as Florida and South Carolina who both barely closed down. Small business owners have been completely annihilated in PA. It’s disgusting the way they have been treated. 
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

[nemesis8679]

6 hours ago, hockey55 said:

I also find it frustrating when PA has the same exact #s of deaths per 100,000 as Florida and South Carolina who both barely closed down. Small business owners have been completely annihilated in PA. It’s disgusting the way they have been treated. 
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Again, the federal government should be giving them money. God knows banks, hedge funds, airlines, and big business got it. 

And $1200 to last 6+ months is a real joke from the government. That's about 6 bucks a day. But as usual, the jokes on the lower and middle classes. 

 

[Danner27]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:20 AM, nemesis8679 said:

Maybe directing your anger at the federal government, who has remained unable- but probably more accurately unwilling- to step in and help its citizens who are in a tough spot. Lord knows there's been no problem when corporate America needs financial help. 1200 bucks to get people through six months and counting? That's unacceptable. The shutdowns are what they are, were necessary, and you can't help that. But the response has been severely lacking. 

[Danner27]

HB2787 - did not get 2/3rd vote on the veto. Wolf veto stands. 22 house democrat reps changed their vote in favor of wolf! 

 

@fafa fohi party politics 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Danner27

[Danner27]

9 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

HB2787 - did not get 2/3rd vote on the veto. Wolf veto stands. 25 democrat house reps changed their vote in favor of wolf! 

 

@fafa fohi party politics 

Miller (D) from Mt Lebanon is one that flipped. 

[Danner27]

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/RC/Public/rc_view_action2.cfm?sess_yr=2019&sess_ind=0&rc_body=H&rc_nbr=1613
 

Folks can view the flippers! 

[Danner27]

On 9/3/2020 at 2:24 PM, fafa fohi said:

I wrote my State Senator, Democrat Lindsey Williams regarding Bill #2787 and received this response from her office today.  She expressed reluctance in supporting this bill at first but I assume her office was inundated with emails in hoping she would reconsider and support the bill and clearly, she did and voted YES.  Power to the people.

Her response is below:

In the past few weeks, many parents have emailed me about their children playing sports. Parents expressed concern about their kids missing an opportunity to play. As a former high school athlete myself, I understand. I know that sports are a valuable part of students' lives-- for their physical, mental, and social development. I also know that parents are worried about the health risks of exposing their families to COVID-19.

Today, I voted in favor of HB 2787 in the Education Committee meeting in order to advance it to the full Senate for consideration. HB 2787 allows individual school districts to make decisions on school sports and other extracurricular activities. This was not an easy decision for me. Pennsylvania still lacks proper testing, contract tracing, and PPE. However, if the state is allowing individual districts to make their own decisions on reopening, it seems inconsistent to not allow them to make their own decisions on sports. I have been disappointed that the state’s guidance on sports has failed to fully address the differences in risks between different sports and the different types/sizes of indoor venues. I anticipate that the full Senate will vote on this bill next week.

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out.

Sincerely,

Lindsey M. Williams

38th Senate District

PARTY POLITICS Williams flipped buddy! Be sure to ask her why.  

[Danner27]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:11 PM, fafa fohi said:

And why is that?  Because she’s a Democrat?

I've read lots of political bullshit on this and other threads and it’s getting old. I think everyone here wants the same thing, and the political commentary doesn’t help.  I provided an example of someone that was initially against this bill and with the help of her constituents sending emails she changed her mind and voted yes.   Now we can move on to 2832  

Whom have you written to on any of the bills? What response did you or others get?   Where’s yours or others update on what their lawmakers have done?  

The cynicism here is a joke. 

Hey buddy how do you feel now ? She changed her mind again. Get in line - party politics. I guess you didn’t see this coming did you ? I didn’t think so. 

[Danner27]

[fafa fohi]

5 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Hey buddy how do you feel now ? She changed her mind again. Get in line - party politics. I guess you didn’t see this coming did you ? I didn’t think so. 

Hey Benji - what I did see coming and predicted weeks ago on this thread was you slobbering all over yourself with "I told you so."  

Remember that, Biff?

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by fafa fohi

[Danner27]

23 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

What I did see coming and predicted weeks ago on this thread was you slobbering all over yourself with "I told you so."  

Remember that, Biff?

 

Yes I do remember, Thanks for the pat on the back! 

[Danner27]

@fafa fohi you horse tooth jackass - direct quote here! 

House Democratic Leader Frank Dermody of Allegheny County, fell into that category. He told the Pennsylvania Capital-Star, Wolf is "our governor. He vetoed it, and I’m the Democratic leader, ... I am not going to override the governor’s veto.”

that is this guys reasoning for flipping, that is PARTY POLITICS at its finest, you know man, that thing, that thing you said that doesn’t, you know man you know what I mean pony boy something!  
 

I would like to add this quote for everyone else about 14 of the Democrats that flipped.

But those who like to venture a guess on why Kim and Schlossberg had a change of heart pointed to the fact that they were among the 14 Democrats who flipped are politically safe because they happen to be uncontested in their re-election bid this November.The Pennsylvania School Boards Association said its review of the federal court ruling leads to one conclusion: schools still have no choice but to adhere to Wolf’s limits on the size of gatherings.“Judge Stickman’s ruling does not have any effect on gathering size limits for high school athletic events, one way of the other, whether or not the ruling is stayed pending appeal, overturned or upheld,” according to a statement issued on Wednesday from PSBA’s legal team. “The judge’s ruling about the constitutionality of the governor’s gathering size limits is limited to political or other expressive activities protected by the First Amendment. There is really not a plausible case to be made that there is a First Amendment right to attend a high school football game or to have as many people attend as the team or school may want."