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Midam/USA hockey decision on hockey


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6 hours ago, Racchi’s Rug said:

The RMU idea is intriguing. Having played beer league there I can tell you that the boards on the outdoor rink are very high and don’t give much, checking there would be brutal. It would be cool to see the classic outdoor rinks at the parks reopened for regular hockey. Maybe the Pens would do something like they did at Highmark Stadium a few years back (doubtful) if outdoor becomes the norm. 

Not to mention the short neutral zone on that rink. Man!

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11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

My understanding of the Mid-Am guidance is exactly what Danner said about Denver. They told everyone to abide by state rules.  So PA we have the 25 person indoor limit for recreational sports. Different in NY, Indiana, Ohio, WV, etc.  

It seems from my reading of what I saw that, were PA to allow some places to relax the 25 person limit but not others, that we could even be in a situation where we could play 5v5 with full rosters outside Allegheny County, while still being limited to 10 players/bench inside Allegheny County.

As someone said above, my kids will want to play if any hockey at all is allowed to occur, but this is really going to mess things up. Imagine being a senior varsity player (or even JV, honestly). How is PIHL hockey going to proceed?

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1 hour ago, Lifelongbender said:

Not to mention the short neutral zone on that rink. Man!

Yeah that rink is only 85" X 185" but i have heard thats a legal sized rink for ages up to 16U. Not sure if id want to see a bantam checking game there as someone mentioned above those boards might as well be made from concrete.

We're going to have to get creative to make this work. I am hopefully the powers at be feel the same. 

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7 hours ago, Racchi’s Rug said:

The RMU idea is intriguing. Having played beer league there I can tell you that the boards on the outdoor rink are very high and don’t give much, checking there would be brutal. It would be cool to see the classic outdoor rinks at the parks reopened for regular hockey. Maybe the Pens would do something like they did at Highmark Stadium a few years back (doubtful) if outdoor becomes the norm. 

It may be time for someone to start thinking about building a few outdoor pads similar to the multiple outdoor facilities in Buffalo. Especially being there is no end in sight, and some saying this could go on for a few years (virus situation).

You could throw up a covered outdoor rink in what, a month and a half? Level the lot, build 1/4 a warehouse (steel pillars and roof) then pour the concrete. 
 

 

Edited by ctil20
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43 minutes ago, forbin said:

Yeah that rink is only 85" X 185" but i have heard thats a legal sized rink for ages up to 16U. Not sure if id want to see a bantam checking game there as someone mentioned above those boards might as well be made from concrete.

We're going to have to get creative to make this work. I am hopefully the powers at be feel the same. 

I've played some beer league on that little rink, and the neutral zone is so short that if you take off when your defense gets the puck you'll be offside before the breakout pass reaches you. And that's my skating. My midget would be screwed.

Then there's the Olympic size rink there, too. I never get to play on the NHL size rink...

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The kids won't care that much about how big the ice is or how many players are out there or not being allowed to check. They will have fun on the ice no matter what. I think that's the most important thing to the majority. It's the parents that will be crying about their superstar not getting the most for their money. The kids will miss the parents cheering, but they won't miss the ones that jeer & heckle and constantly critique them during the game. The off-ice stuff is will be the hardest for the kids. The strict rules and limited socialization will be tough. No tournaments, No post-game team stops on the way home. Those team-building activities are half the fun (maybe more) and we won't have them this season.

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And so I must ask again, why the hell is DICKtator Wolf giving youth sports a problem when .001 percent of that age group are getting COVID?  

That’s less of a chance than getting the annual flu, cold, strep throat, etc.

This is all such BS at the expense of our youth not getting a good education or physical activity, and all in the name of politics.

Edited by Scooby Doo
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1 hour ago, ctil20 said:

It may be time for someone to start thinking about building a few outdoor pads similar to the multiple outdoor facilities in Buffalo. Especially being there is no end in sight, and some saying this could go on for a few years (virus situation).

You could throw up a covered outdoor rink in what, a month and a half? Level the lot, build 1/4 a warehouse (steel pillars and roof) then pour the concrete. 
 

 

There's a nice big lot right off 79 by Top Golf....would make a PERFECT location for something like this. Already has a big paved parking lot too. I would absolutely love to see this happen. Throw some synthetic ice or sport court down during the spring and summer months. We can dream....

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15 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

And so I must ask again, why the hell is DICKtator Wolf giving youth sports a problem when .001 percent of that age group are getting COVID?  

That’s less of a chance than getting the annual flu, cold, strep throat, etc.

This is all such BS at the expense of our youth not getting a good education or physical activity, and all in the name of politics.

I would give a detailed response to this but it is useless when you are stuck on the political part. We can't change each others mind about their politics. I try to focus on what the most educated and experienced people regarding a subject are saying. That certainly does not include the politicians.

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2 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I would give a detailed response to this but it is useless when you are stuck on the political part. We can't change each others mind about their politics. I try to focus on what the most educated and experienced people regarding a subject are saying. That certainly does not include the politicians.

And these most educated experienced people don't have a political bent?? We can find highly qualified, reputable "educated" people that disagree completely about how this whole situation is being handled. Because of their political differences, they will never find common ground, leaving all of us stuck in the middle.

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6 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

And these most educated experienced people don't have a political bent?? We can find highly qualified, reputable "educated" people that disagree completely about how this whole situation is being handled. Because of their political differences, they will never find common ground, leaving all of us stuck in the middle.

Right. So what experts should we trust? The ones we cherry-pick to fit our agenda or the ones that are in the overwhelming majority?

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9 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Right. So what experts should we trust? The ones we cherry-pick to fit our agenda or the ones that are in the overwhelming majority?

Lol, overwhelming majority? Says who, the MSM?? Those that have financial gains to be made from this crisis? Those that have flip-flopped all over the place the entire time?

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4 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

Lol, overwhelming majority? Says who, the MSM?? Those that have financial gains to be made from this crisis? Those that have flip-flopped all over the place the entire time?

Yeah. I know. I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. You will always get you news from a different source than mine. I guess it's nice that we can find a place to give us different versions of the facts.

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I will go by facts. Young people aren’t dying from COVID or frankly getting sick from it.  That is clearly factual.  If you’re worried about your kid or yourself if you’re a ref, skip this season.

literally none of the hockey parents I know are worried about this at all, which is probably the same for high school football parents, etc.

the question is when can we as adults make the decisions for ourselves instead of a one size fits all approach by the State Govt?

I think we are also starting to see data that being around people who have COVID strengthens your immune system just like being around people with other viruses, just like man has been experiencing for 100,000 years.

its so damn frustrating on many levels and YES politics does have to do with it, when most of worst states are Run by one party.

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15 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Yeah. I know. I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. You will always get you news from a different source than mine. I guess it's nice that we can find a place to give us different versions of the facts.

It is certainly possible for intelligent and reasonable people to disagree on policy on any issue in general, and on the COVID situation in particular. If you're well-informed, you know that there are highly intelligent, highly educated people out there who disagree substantially on the appropriate responses to all of the COVID issues - masks, sports, etc. It's also clear that the appropriate level of response/concern about this issue varies between highly educated and informed individuals. That makes sense because ad hoc risk tolerance assessment is highly subjective. If you're not using a formal cost/benefit model to calculate risk, you're not doing it rigorously.

This is further compounded by the fact that so many arguments that this board has seen on the subject seem to have public good and private good mixed up.

I personally believe that the measures ordered by our government are disproportionate and of dubious effect. However, at this point they are what they are. It's clear that nobody really knows enough to make hard decisions about managing the virus, and equally clear that the current measures are not politically/socially tenable in the long run.

With all that as a background, it's surely true that much of the debate about the issue of response to the virus situation is based upon differing assessments of public risk and the tolerance level of public risk, all the way from the "if it saves even one life..." to "you're violating my rights and public health be damned" (both of these extreme examples being equally vapid). Because these decisions are made by politicians, decisions assessing these risks are inherently and unavoidably political in nature. Hard stop.

What I'm not doing is assigning risk assessment policies to political parties - I'm not saying "those damned liberal democrats are ruining my life" or "those crazy super backwards republicans are going to kill us all". I am saying that this issue cannot be resolved for two simple reasons:

  1. Nobody has hard, non-ambiguous science that is not in debate by good scientists on both sides to tell us how risky this really is or how to best protect ourselves from the risk. (I know, some people are going to disagree with this statement, but it's a cold hard fact that there is a healthy debate about this between informed individuals.)
  2. There is no universally accepted way to evaluate the public risk issues and assign an acceptable level of risk. Every person has a different idea of how much risk is acceptable for themselves, and most people just assign that same level of acceptable risk to the public at large. That's not a reasonable way to assess public risk issues.

In short, there is no way to resolve this issue by any sort of debate online, since everyone, no matter how informed and convinced of their cherry picked portion of the science available, is inherently making a personal assessment of risks. Those risk assessments are the problem.

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4 minutes ago, Paul Baxter said:

I will go by facts. Young people aren’t dying from COVID or frankly getting sick from it.  That is clearly factual.  If you’re worried about your kid or yourself if you’re a ref, skip this season.

literally none of the hockey parents I know are worried about this at all, which is probably the same for high school football parents, etc.

the question is when can we as adults make the decisions for ourselves instead of a one size fits all approach by the State Govt?

I think we are also starting to see data that being around people who have COVID strengthens your immune system just like being around people with other viruses, just like man has been experiencing for 100,000 years.

its so damn frustrating on many levels and YES politics does have to do with it, when most of worst states are Run by one party.

My whole argument with issues like this is that people try to simplify them based on politics. It just amazes me that we can't agree that this is so complicated and nobody could possibly have the total solution. These decisions affect everyone (the whole community) not just the young athletes. What happens at the rink, does not stay at the rink. I'm not sure if we need to have these strict guidelines or not and neither is anyone else. I choose to respect guidelines & laws, even the ones I that I think may be overkill.

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13 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

It would be nice if we the parents could make the decision on behalf of our family. This virus is no worse than any other one that mankind has faced, I will agree with that.

I agree that it would but you would also be making that decision on behalf of the public. I often think that we should just move forward, but then I always get pulled the other direction as I weigh the risks. I'm just not a big risk taker. I probably have less fun than many others because of that. I wish it was as simple as your statement. I wish you didn't have to suffer because of people like me worrying that things could get real bad, There are just so many people like me. Sorry.

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25 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

It would be nice if we the parents could make the decision on behalf of our family. This virus is no worse than any other one that mankind has faced, I will agree with that.

Agreed 100%. Then they will say you might infect someone else.  Everyone that is that worried about it should stay home.

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1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said:

The kids won't care that much about how big the ice is or how many players are out there or not being allowed to check. They will have fun on the ice no matter what. I think that's the most important thing to the majority. It's the parents that will be crying about their superstar not getting the most for their money. The kids will miss the parents cheering, but they won't miss the ones that jeer & heckle and constantly critique them during the game. The off-ice stuff is will be the hardest for the kids. The strict rules and limited socialization will be tough. No tournaments, No post-game team stops on the way home. Those team-building activities are half the fun (maybe more) and we won't have them this season.

If your kid is competitive or ever played at the AA level or above, they will not be happy with no contact. 

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13 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

If your kid is competitive or ever played at the AA level or above, they will not be happy with no contact. 

My kids are scrubs but they love hockey in any form. The better kids will prefer traditional hockey but will still be happy with any hockey. There are many spoiled kids that will complain because they are used to always getting their way, but they will adjust.

Edited by Quinlan2020
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4 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

The Rumor being discussed that Pahl & Pihl will be going to nine skaters, 4 on 4 with no contact unfortunately has become truth. The other option is not playing at all. 

Are they keeping it a secret? Or will we see this in an official statement or posted on PAHL/PIHL sites.

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This season of 4 on 4 non contact will separate the good skaters and good hockey IQ kids from the rest of the pack. Should be really interesting to see how it all unfolds. Can't wait to see the sh*t storm of parents b*tching and moaning about their kids ice time!

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