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Why does Alpha lock their LiveBarn?


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I’ve viewed many rinks over the years via LiveBarn. And by that, I mean probably around a hundred across America. 
 

Alpha and/or the Vengeance are literally the only rink I’ve seen lock their games. As I delved deeper, everything is locked outside of one or two time frames a day. Mite skates. 
 

Anyone from Alpha care to explain? I’d like to give someone the benefit of the doubt and let them explain why they’re seemingly the only rink in America who requires a code to watch anything. 
 

Now, I know that rinks/organizations will occasionally black out try outs, private lesson sessions etc. However, to view anything at Alpha, you need a code. If I want to go back and watch my friends kids games, or view my own kids games played there, I have to hunt down a security code to view. 
 

Individuals with a LiveBarn subscription would like to watch family and friends play hockey, without having to contact people for codes to watch. 

 

Edited by ctil20
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30 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I do not know what's worse - being able to attend games at Alpha but no LiveBarn, or UPMC allowing only family members of players but has LiveBarn turned on.

Why isn't UPMC adhering to the up to 20% capacity rule?

UPMC is run by the big Pens and they want to make sure that when training camp starts in December that they can shut the whole building off AGAIN without any problems beforehand. 

All that money dropped by parents up there and some teams have only played 2 or less games so far while other local organizations are 10, 15 or 20 games in already. 

 

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1 hour ago, Pucks11 said:

UPMC is run by the big Pens and they want to make sure that when training camp starts in December that they can shut the whole building off AGAIN without any problems beforehand. 

All that money dropped by parents up there and some teams have only played 2 or less games so far while other local organizations are 10, 15 or 20 games in already. 

 

Ahhh here is the Alpha/Vengeance associate. 
 

What’s the big secret? 

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2 hours ago, ctil20 said:

Ahhh here is the Alpha/Vengeance associate. 
 

What’s the big secret? 

My kid doesn't play at either rink and who said anything about a secret? Just stating facts, the big Pens shut the building down for the restart of the season and no one was allowed in. The PPE didn't have a problem asking for their $$$$. When the next NHL season gets ready to start all those kids will be locked out AGAIN and since the big boys practice there all season the PPE's season is over. 

I know some rinks have put passwords on their livebarns so they don't get flooded with people watching and then the video lags. 

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24 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

My kid doesn't play at either rink and who said anything about a secret? Just stating facts, the big Pens shut the building down for the restart and no one was allowed in but the PPE didn't have a problem asking for their $$$$. We know 30+ families that are up there. 

I know some rinks have put passwords on their livebarns so they don't get flooded with people watching and then the video lags. 

 I’ve never once had video lag, and I’ve watched USHL games on LiveBarn. 
 

I can’t help but think you are involved there. Seeing how you are turning a conversation about them, around to the pens. That’s the MO of some at Alpha/vengeance.
 

Anyway, what do you think the reasoning is behind the secrecy on LiveBarn is? It’s not bandwidth. 

Edited by ctil20
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I don’t get the point of locking things down.  Who gives a crap about who watches who... doesn’t make much of a difference when both teams hit the ice.  I think it’s more of an ego thing anyways-we’re so good nobody can watch our practices.  When in reality you’re not going to get a whole lot out of watching practices of another team.  It’s how you perform during the game itself.

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I can pretty much guarantee that nobody cares to watch any practice that’s happening at Alpha or any other amateur hockey organization. 
 

Knowing some of the individuals I know, in regard to Alpha... I can completely see it being on purpose and a result of paranoia. 

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1 hour ago, ctil20 said:

I can pretty much guarantee that nobody cares to watch any practice that’s happening at Alpha or any other amateur hockey organization. 
 

Knowing some of the individuals I know, in regard to Alpha... I can completely see it being on purpose and a result of paranoia. 

Actually there are people out there crazy enough to watch other team practices. I have met them.  That being said as Paul mentioned it's a complete waste of time. 

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1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Actually there are people out there crazy enough to watch other team practices. I have met them.  That being said as Paul mentioned it's a complete waste of time. 

Well, the weird thing is... I can watch a professional, D1, junior teams practice on LiveBarn... so if they aren’t concerned about others viewing their practices... I don’t know why Alpha or it’s tenants would be. 

Again, I’ve viewed a ton of rinks around America since the inception of LiveBarn. I have not come across any that have restrictions on every event, like Alpha does. 
 

Maybe someone needs to contact LiveBarn. Alpha can certainly make the decision not to have it, that’s their call, but if they’re going to have it... they need to let LiveBarn subscribers utilize it. 
 

I do have my suspicions on what it’s really about but I’m patiently waiting for someone from Alpha, and we all know a few of you are here, to speak up and maybe indicate it’s a technical issue or mishap. And fix it. There’s no reason why people who are paying for livebarns service should be locked out of viewing their kids play at this particular rink. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, ctil20 said:

 I’ve never once had video lag, and I’ve watched USHL games on LiveBarn. 
 

I can’t help but think you are involved there. Seeing how you are turning a conversation about them, around to the pens. That’s the MO of some at Alpha/vengeance.
 

Anyway, what do you think the reasoning is behind the secrecy on LiveBarn is? It’s not bandwidth. 

Good for you not having a video lags on you???????. That was the reasoning given to my wife from a rink this past weekend and why they had it password protected. 

You can think what you want, Alpha is to far of a drive for me and while I have been to UPMC over the years what I said about them is coming directly from their parents mouths. They are upset and will be AGAIN when the NHL season starts back up. 

As to the secrecy it probably has something to do with them NOT following the guidelines to be open. Alpha was the rink that didn't shut down at all during this entire COVID-19 outbreak,  they just blacked out their livebarns. 

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Lagging video will not be cured by password protecting / locking down the Livebarn feeds.  If some rinks are locking video in the thought that will increase/improve their video to other sheets in the building this is WAY off base.

FACT:  Users never directly access the cameras from LB.  All video is compressed on the camera and sent from the cams up to LB and then aggregated there for mass viewing.  One upload feed to LB - and from LB to users many feeds.

Lag would be due to a few possible issues:

1) inadequate bandwidth on the internet connection (upstream bandwidth). In the case of Alpha, they have 3 surfaces (I don't know if all 3 have LB).  But this means they would need a fairly decent internet connection to stream 3 feeds at once up to livebarn. I would guess at least 5mbit for each feed, so 3 would need roughly 15mbit upstream connection.

2) networking issues inside the building.  That's because a lot of rinks have crappy/old switches, hubs, wifi access points (if at all)...  instead of having gigabit ethernet inside the building.   Not a lot of $$ here... 1000 ft. of high quality CAT7 ethernet shielded cable can be had for a few hundred.  A good switch, $100-150.  A good router that can give everyone in the building WIFI, $200-$500.  

When you watch a livebarn feed you DO NOT connect directly to that camera in the rink.  You connect to a main feed server @ livebarn which rebroadcasts the feed in near real-time.  Usually the live feed is a few seconds behind the ACTUAL live action.  it takes a few seconds to send the data up, and then expose it for users to access (this is all behind the scenes).

So in tech terms it looks like this:

Camera in the rink -> switch/router in the rink -> out on the internet ->live barn

users watching -> internet -> livebarn feeds

 

So when you have a laggy video feed, it's most likely due to issues with that rink's setup.

Livebarn is supposed to ensure the internet connection has enough upstream bandwidth to send a full sized HD image up to their servers, but we all know how a lot of these rinks operate on shoestring budgets.

I had offered in the past to help a local rink troubleshoot their livebarn video feed and they never responded back to me. (yes, I am highly qualified to do that...)  The rink I dealt with ran several LONG ethernet feeds across their building supports into crappy switches and then to a crappy old router and onto the internet.  For starters you can't use a 10 year old router and expect performance, and you can't expect a solid ethernet connection on cheapo cable that you are going to run 300 feet from point to point.  it's a shame these places go so damn cheap on the IT front when they have volunteers like me who could provide the expertise to do this the right way and it would last for many years, for only a few $ more than they already are spending.

Edited by Wes
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I had been assuming that the Livebarn feeds that were shut down - this includes several rinks in the area - were doing so in part to reduce the risk of being caught not exactly following the restrictions. By that logic I figured they'd open their feeds when the restrictions were relaxed.

I know that when a new install is done, for a week or so they keep the feed private. I assume that has to do with commissioning and testing of the system.

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7 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

As to the secrecy it probably has something to do with them NOT following the guidelines to be open. Alpha was the rink that didn't shut down at all during this entire COVID-19 outbreak

Bingo.  Hosting all those super spreader events during yellow phase of recovery.  Gramma be damned, the rink needed to make money.  They needed to sell some ice and fraudster "instructors" preying on the fears of all you NHL bound parents with their scam clinics.  Have to get a leg up on everyone right?  Remember?  Why did they even install Live Barn?  They and their shady tenant organizations just continue to operate in the shadows.

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2 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Bingo.  Hosting all those super spreader events during yellow phase of recovery.  Gramma be damned, the rink needed to make money.  They needed to sell some ice and fraudster "instructors" preying on the fears of all you NHL bound parents with their scam clinics.  Have to get a leg up on everyone right?  Remember?  Why did they even install Live Barn?  They and their shady tenant organizations just continue to operate in the shadows.

Shady is by far, the best term I’ve heard to describe the vengeance. 

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55 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Shady is by far, the best term I’ve heard to describe the vengeance. 

I thought we were talking about LiveBarn at Alpha.  What does the Vengeance have to do with Alpha not using LiveBarn?  Do you have an insider tip or know something others don't?

As far as @Jack Handey stating Alpha was hosting "super spreader events" I recall PPE kids going in and out of Alpha once the rink opened when Allegheny Cty turned to yellow phase because UPMC was shut down.  And wasn't your son an active participant in skating sessions at Alpha during that time?  And as far as those "super spreader" events I haven not seen any data that there has been COVID outbreaks within those that were skating at Alpha.

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The thing is... I don’t even think the cameras were installed there, or they were not turned on when “Alpha was open during the shutdown”. I’m not really buying that excuse. 
 

There is currently no valid excuse to be blocking out paying LiveBarn subscribers from games/ice time their children are participating in at Alpha. 

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34 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I thought we were talking about LiveBarn at Alpha.  What does the Vengeance have to do with Alpha not using LiveBarn?  Do you have an insider tip or know something others don't?

As far as @Jack Handey stating Alpha was hosting "super spreader events" I recall PPE kids going in and out of Alpha once the rink opened when Allegheny Cty turned to yellow phase because UPMC was shut down.  And wasn't your son an active participant in skating sessions at Alpha during that time?  And as far as those "super spreader" events I haven not seen any data that there has been COVID outbreaks within those that were skating at Alpha.

Lockdown over, turn the cameras on! Like every other rink with a LiveBarn set up! 

 

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2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

I thought we were talking about LiveBarn at Alpha.  What does the Vengeance have to do with Alpha not using LiveBarn?  Do you have an insider tip or know something others don't?

As far as @Jack Handey stating Alpha was hosting "super spreader events" I recall PPE kids going in and out of Alpha once the rink opened when Allegheny Cty turned to yellow phase because UPMC was shut down.  And wasn't your son an active participant in skating sessions at Alpha during that time?  And as far as those "super spreader" events I haven not seen any data that there has been COVID outbreaks within those that were skating at Alpha.

The PPE was Alpha's main tenants during the lock down. They just put the ice under a parent's name on the locker room boards instead of the coaches just incase. 

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On 10/20/2020 at 2:49 PM, Pucks11 said:

UPMC is run by the big Pens and they want to make sure that when training camp starts in December that they can shut the whole building off AGAIN without any problems beforehand. 

All that money dropped by parents up there and some teams have only played 2 or less games so far while other local organizations are 10, 15 or 20 games in already. 

 

huh?? when has pens rink been shut down in Dencember? And look again at the games played - same as most teams in their divisions. What in the world are you talking about 

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1 hour ago, hockey2020 said:

huh?? when has pens rink been shut down in Dencember? And look again at the games played - same as most teams in their divisions. What in the world are you talking about 

He's saying with the NHL aiming for a January 2021 start, the UPMC complex will likely be closed starting in December for training camp. Meaning, PPE will not have a home rink.

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