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I'm trying to word this in a way that it doesn't come across as trolling.  Because I'm hoping for a serious discussion.  Preferably based on real life experiences.
 
Basically my question is it a one-way street from Pens Elite to other AAA Pittsburgh organizations?  Or have there been instances of players returning/going to PPE from these other programs?  
 
I could see it's various ways. Either the Pens don't want other organization retreads. Or perhaps the Pens would love to snag the best kid from a rivals roster.  Or does the past years team have absolutely no bearing?
 
Also curious how often at the older ages do local PAHL players make the jump to a legit AAA team.  It looks like most of the "replacement" kids on PPE rosters come from imports from out of the area AAA programs.  Seems the players that have the skill and desire to play AAA would do it at earlier ages and not just suddenly make the jump at 14,15,16 years old.
 
Thoughts?
 
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Lots of players come into their own only when they get older. A kid that is naturally big, aggressive, fast, or a combination can rule the roost at 8-12 years old. Once everyone matures more even at an older age and kids are deciding for themselves to work hard or not makes a big difference, too. 

That said, and it happens in baseball and I presume other sports as well, is that the younger you start the less likely it is to be cut from certain teams that you were on prior. A combination of familiarity and personal attachments come into play. But just because you've been at whatever level for x amount of years does not mean you're necessarily the best player to fill a role and that somebody else can't take it. But, whether a coach or whoever picks someone over someone else just depends. And like I said, not always just because they're the best player. 

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I know of a few players who were with Preds and Esmark who then made Pens Elite. I'm sure there are others. I don't think it happens very often.I do think it is very hard to make it as an older child if you were never part of the program. If you are contemplating it, find out how the tryouts work to try and prepare your child.

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11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I agree with most of what is posted here.  14+ pens elite us gonna be tough to just walk on I would guess but largely because they start pulling regionally (if not nationally).  I think at the younger ages there can be some back and forth. 

If not internationally.

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I have noticed that 90% of kids that have played AA hockey and tryout for a AAA team, including the teams that some people feel are “FAUX” have a hard time adjusting to how much faster the game is played. I am sure given a chance to develop during the season they can adjust to the speed, but it is not going to happen during tryouts. I have also noticed that the new players to a team have been contacted in advance and have been invited to practice (tryout before the tryouts) with the current team.

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38 minutes ago, BACKCHECKING said:

I have noticed that 90% of kids that have played AA hockey and tryout for a AAA team, including the teams that some people feel are “FAUX” have a hard time adjusting to how much faster the game is played. I am sure given a chance to develop during the season they can adjust to the speed, but it is not going to happen during tryouts. I have also noticed that the new players to a team have been contacted in advance and have been invited to practice (tryout before the tryouts) with the current team.

Depends on the age and skill as well as the individual kid. I've seen A major players step into games with AAA players and look just as good and I've seen AAA players play A Major the next year and look average.  I know Pens and Vengeance seem to use their own normal drills for tryouts so kids coming back would likely have an advantage of knowing the drill just like kids who do their various tuneup programs.  As they get older and the kids start coming from other states or countries it's just naturally going to be harder because that's an amazing talent pool to draw from. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/31/2021 at 9:17 AM, BACKCHECKING said:

 I have also noticed that the new players to a team have been contacted in advance and have been invited to practice (tryout before the tryouts) with the current team.

^^^ this 100%

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On 3/30/2021 at 1:27 PM, CovidPolice said:
I'm trying to word this in a way that it doesn't come across as trolling.  Because I'm hoping for a serious discussion.  Preferably based on real life experiences.
 
Basically my question is it a one-way street from Pens Elite to other AAA Pittsburgh organizations?  Or have there been instances of players returning/going to PPE from these other programs?  
 
I could see it's various ways. Either the Pens don't want other organization retreads. Or perhaps the Pens would love to snag the best kid from a rivals roster.  Or does the past years team have absolutely no bearing?
 
Also curious how often at the older ages do local PAHL players make the jump to a legit AAA team.  It looks like most of the "replacement" kids on PPE rosters come from imports from out of the area AAA programs.  Seems the players that have the skill and desire to play AAA would do it at earlier ages and not just suddenly make the jump at 14,15,16 years old.
 
Thoughts?
 

I could go on and on about this topic, but I don't want to write a book about this (yet).  PPE has it's favorites and frankly you're either a favorite of them or they drop you like a lead balloon.  It doesn't always have to do with talent either.  A lot is who they can pull from other AAA teams.   A while back an Ohio AAA team folded and they "invited" their star players to come to PPE tryouts and then promptly cut several local girls in lieu of out of towners.   This was during a time period where they said their rules were only X number of players could be from out of town.  When in fact 66% of the team was 1-10 hour drive away.  So the PPE name is more a moniker as they don't really do a lot to support or grow local kids, as they'd just as soon grab the best player from Detroit over a Pittsburgh kid.

They also love parents who have deep pockets or financial pull (pilots, real estate office owners, CEO's), as those kids seem to make teams year after year while kids to "average parents" don't stick around (unless you are a total stud).  

 

Edited by Wes
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5 minutes ago, Wes said:

 So the PPE name is more a moniker as they don't really do a lot to support or grow local kids, as they'd just as soon grab the best player from Detroit over a Pittsburgh kid.

They also love parents who have deep pockets or financial pull (pilots, real estate office owners, CEO's), as those kids seem to make teams year after year while kids to "average parents" don't stick around (unless you are a total stud).  

 

PPE is a white collar clique. Predetermined rosters based on parental income and butt kissing, but then again that's pretty much everywhere nowadays. 

It's so funny to me to see what Cranberry has become. It was a whole different world growing up there in the late 80's. I avoid it like the plague now. 

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Specific to the original topic, my son played at a AA level from squirts through 1st year Bantam. He made the Pens for 14U. I’ve seen others where that happens. It isn’t frequent, to other posters points, as the Pens start recruiting from outside the area and have more predetermined rosters as they advance in age. 

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21 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

They begin the recruiting process when players are 6 and 7 years old. It's actually comical. You have these Coaches calling, texting and emailing parents and telling them how great their little superstar is.

This is absolutely true. It’s how my oldest ended up with the 66ers a few years back. A coach in a PPE jacket approached my wife after a jamboree in delmont and went on and on about how talented our kid was. He was 7. I’ll admit, we were naive and swooned. So we jumped ship the following year and quite honestly it sucked. The environment there was terrible for my son and my family. I’m sure it’s great for others but we we’re definitely the black sheep of the group. 

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On the topic of AAA, word is SIX AAA teams for the 06 BY will exist this upcoming season - PPE, Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, Icemen and SHAHA.  This is completely absurd, yet parents will line up around the block to get their little Johnny on a AAA team.

Talk about diluting the talent base, then again if they want to spend the money have at it.

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59 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

On the topic of AAA, word is SIX AAA teams for the 06 BY will exist this upcoming season - PPE, Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, Iceman and SHAHA.  This is completely absurd, yet parents will line up around the block to get their Johnny on a AAA team.

Talk about diluting the talent base, then again if they want to spend the money have at it.

I think there are 4-5 at the 08 and 09 levels as well. And that doesn't include pens black (gone at that age now?)

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16 hours ago, forbin said:

PPE is a white collar clique. Predetermined rosters based on parental income and butt kissing, but then again that's pretty much everywhere nowadays. 

It's so funny to me to see what Cranberry has become. It was a whole different world growing up there in the late 80's. I avoid it like the plague now. 

I remember when everyone called that region "Mars" because that was the name of the exit you got off at to drive up RT19 to the turnpike. Basically farms there then.

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13 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

On the topic of AAA, word is SIX AAA teams for the 06 BY will exist this upcoming season - PPE, Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, Icemen and SHAHA.  This is completely absurd, yet parents will line up around the block to get their little Johnny on a AAA team.

Talk about diluting the talent base, then again if they want to spend the money have at it.

This is the same at 05 BY with PPE, Esmark, Preds, Vengeance, Icemen and Mt. Lebanon.  And the parents will justify it by saying stupid statements like they qualified for the MidAm tournament.  SHAHA 06 boasted this past year that they were the #3 seed at 14U and then proceeded to get swept.

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13 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

On the topic of AAA, word is SIX AAA teams for the 06 BY will exist this upcoming season - PPE, Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, Icemen and SHAHA.  This is completely absurd, yet parents will line up around the block to get their little Johnny on a AAA team.

Talk about diluting the talent base, then again if they want to spend the money have at it.

Here is my take on what will happen. PPE will bring in 4-6 players, that will knock a couple of those kids off the team, those 4-6 will likely go to Vengeance, Shaha or might go outside of PA to other AAA teams or prep schools. I think Vengeance has a solid core and added a very good coach, that may draw in a couple kids over shaha, but shaha still has a aaa level group and these 2 teams will see improvment over last year. I think Esmark and Preds will field teams from the leftovers of these teams, they will be low end AAA, but probably better than most AA teams in the area and will offer more ice, non parent coaches, more games and higher level competition. Iceman have tried every year to feild an 06 team, this team if it even happens will be the money grab team. I'm sure the coach will stress he is from Canada, so he knows hockey at the first meeting, but I would really be surprised if this team actually comes together. As far a the statement of 6 teams, it is also the 15u birth year and this does not exist at the Tier 2 AA level, only AAA, so yes you will see more that your share of 15u teams including the renagades, Allegheny Badgers and probably North Pitt trying to keep the 14u team they had together, all 3 are solid AA teams and would be good competetion for the Esmark and Preds squads, but you will hear all year long that these are joke teams, cause they call themselves AAA and our AA teams are better, when they are all the same. Have you ever noticed that as kids get older their are more AA and AAA team and less A minor/ B level. It is a relative, just changing groupings. So PPE 1, Vengeance, Shaha group 2, other 5-6 team group 3, rest, have fun and score some goals.

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 This question is for fafa fohi!  What if your kid is the one who insists on trying out for AAA.  Might be a borderline AAA but really wants to try with no encouragement from the parents.

Do you let him tryout. Only for the Pens Elite or Vengenance or a lower AAA team like Preds?  How do yo know if your kid is ready for AAA?  If they are best on AA team?

Just trying to figure some things out and it sounds like you have some experience with all this. All experienced opinions on the subject are welcome.

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23 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

 This question is for fafa fohi!  What if your kid is the one who insists on trying out for AAA.  Might be a borderline AAA but really wants to try with no encouragement from the parents.

Do you let him tryout. Only for the Pens Elite or Vengenance or a lower AAA team like Preds?  How do yo know if your kid is ready for AAA?  If they are best on AA team?

Just trying to figure some things out and it sounds like you have some experience with all this. All experienced opinions on the subject are welcome.

Just my opinion based on past experiences at this level.........If you kid wants to try out for a AAA team, let him but don't treat tryouts as "ice time" leading up to other tryouts as you can spend your $150 in better ways and get a better return for your money.  For kids that have played PAHL since U10, kids want to know how they stack up against higher level kids because PAHL is all they have known - just understand with so many AAA teams the talent level is diluted.  Also note many AAA teams (depending on age level ) have tryouts at the same time, so you can't send your kid to 3-4 different tryouts and pick and choose which one your kid wants to play for because tryout dates are not staggered.  

For the AAA price tag there are benefits - more ice time, full ice practices, off-ice training and film review, etc. I would say you get better coaching but that is questionable so do some research on the coaching staff before committing.  Don't just look at their coaching bio as the deal maker or breaker - they are like resumes' filled with companies a guy got *hit canned from but "exceeded company goals by 150%."

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