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Either way officiating has gone down hill. I witnessed 2 different squirt games/teams today with the same 2 officials and in the 1 game they called 19 minor penalties and 1 10min and then in the other they called 15minor penalties. They actually had these kids crying in the box because they had no idea what they did. 

My sons team had an experience last weekend with refs where they were putting their arms up as to call a penalty a couple of times and then both teams changed positions a couple of times and then they didn't call anything. There was a time from both teams goalies that they went to leave the ice and almost let up a goal because they didn't realize that there was no penalty. 

I know the game can be fast, but for them to even butcher who scored goals sometimes when there are 2 of them out there is nuts. They were giving goals and assists to kids that were not even on the ice or even numbers on the team. 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Questions21 said:

Either way officiating has gone down hill. I witnessed 2 different squirt games/teams today with the same 2 officials and in the 1 game they called 19 minor penalties and 1 10min and then in the other they called 15minor penalties. They actually had these kids crying in the box because they had no idea what they did. 

My sons team had an experience last weekend with refs where they were putting their arms up as to call a penalty a couple of times and then both teams changed positions a couple of times and then they didn't call anything. There was a time from both teams goalies that they went to leave the ice and almost let up a goal because they didn't realize that there was no penalty. 

I know the game can be fast, but for them to even butcher who scored goals sometimes when there are 2 of them out there is nuts. They were giving goals and assists to kids that were not even on the ice or even numbers on the team. 

Yes, because those squirt score sheets get sent straight to NCAA scouting departments. Who cares. 

The other stuff is valid, if that’s how it played out. With that said, does anyone really think the parents ESPECIALLY in western PA really help the situation? These guys can’t get through a 2 minute sequence of officiating without being harassed by a parent. For all the things PAHL and other AAA organizations are uptight about... you would think deterring your parents from acting like chimpanzees in the stands would be a priority. 

Or at the very least, educate the parents that a referee is a human being and not some extraterrestrial intelligent life that’s going to see/catch every single infraction on the ice. 

Furthermore, if these guys called everything they did see... you wouldn’t have a hockey game left to play. It’s about managing a game not calling every single thing that happens on the ice. 

 

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they may not be sent to NCAA but they are used in placements and evaluations of kids for peewee rankings and placements.. so yeah they should be as correct as possible.. your other points are very valid.. However the officiating the past few years has been atrocious.. human or not.. they need to do a better job or at the min not be so 1 sided in there calls / non calls every game. its not difficult to call a fair game.  some of them don't even bother to leave the neutral zone, they are never in position when calling a goal or no goal, won't get out of the way when a puck is coming at them and won't even bother explaining calls to the coaches.. so most of the harassment is self inflicted. 

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48 minutes ago, rock said:

they may not be sent to NCAA but they are used in placements and evaluations of kids for peewee rankings and placements.. so yeah they should be as correct as possible.. your other points are very valid.. However the officiating the past few years has been atrocious.. human or not.. they need to do a better job or at the min not be so 1 sided in there calls / non calls every game. its not difficult to call a fair game.  some of them don't even bother to leave the neutral zone, they are never in position when calling a goal or no goal, won't get out of the way when a puck is coming at them and won't even bother explaining calls to the coaches.. so most of the harassment is self inflicted. 

Example 1/1,000,000 of why hockey parents in WPA are human garbage. These kids don’t stand a chance. These are the “men” they have to look up to. And forget the mothers. Coddling has taken on a new meaning with these twits. Officials are human and susceptible to mistakes. That does not give any “coach” (and I use that term loosely with all the clowns in this area currently coaching at the mite-pee wee levels) or parent the right to berate them and the officials should start exercising their right to punish these idiots. Look up the PA state law passed in 1990 regarding abuse of youth sports officials. I dream of the day a family is destroyed because the law did its job and hammered one of these morons that can’t get over striking out in little league or their inadequacies with their manhood. 

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There used to be some refs on the old message board.  Maybe they could chime in. 

As to the question PAHL vs PIHL vs PIHO.  PIHO is a referee scheduler service and works with youth associations up through college.  PAHL referee scheduling is done by the local associations that make up PAHL.  Some PAHL associations use the service of PIHO, but not all.  Other associations schedule refs on their own.  They have their own pool of referees, and those pools largely overlap the PIHO pool.

I think PIHL uses the services of PIHO to schedule refs for the entire league, but not totally certain on that.

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31 minutes ago, Wampa1 said:

Officials are human and susceptible to mistakes. 

Amen to that.  The game moves fast and no one can see everything.  

If there's a problem with officiating, why not don the stripes?  Pretty sure every association will gladly accept your help.  

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17 hours ago, PIHOPIHLPAHL said:

What is the real difference between PIHL, PAHL, and PIHO officials. They all seem like the same guys. Wasn't there something else before PIHO that had the same officials.

PIHL and PAHL are Hockey leagues.

PIHO is a company that schedules refs for the leagues. PIHL uses them exclusively. PAHL does not. PAHL leaves the decision up to the individual member organizations as to whom schedules their officials for them.

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18 hours ago, Wampa1 said:

Example 1/1,000,000 of why hockey parents in WPA are human garbage. These kids don’t stand a chance. These are the “men” they have to look up to. And forget the mothers. Coddling has taken on a new meaning with these twits. Officials are human and susceptible to mistakes. That does not give any “coach” (and I use that term loosely with all the clowns in this area currently coaching at the mite-pee wee levels) or parent the right to berate them and the officials should start exercising their right to punish these idiots. Look up the PA state law passed in 1990 regarding abuse of youth sports officials. I dream of the day a family is destroyed because the law did its job and hammered one of these morons that can’t get over striking out in little league or their inadequacies with their manhood. 

Wow look at you and all your name calling. You are a much better role model...  Guess your example 2/100,000,000

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37 minutes ago, Chinstrap said:

“......I dream of the day a family is destroyed.......”

 

Wow

Very predictable manipulation of context by a millennial. And as usual, you missed the point. There are vehicles in place to punish people that cannot exercise the proper restraint and act accordingly in an ice rink during an amateur sports event. When the legal system is used to enforce the rules (and a parent ends up in jail) it destroys a family. Unfortunately, it seems that is the only way many of you dopes are going to learn your lesson. Best advice, stay in you seat and shut up. You kids will be better off.

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https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=1989&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0227&pn=3049

 

Original text of the law.

 

You got me. Probably should not have clipped that quote. Guilty.

 

But after reading the text of the law, not sure that a first degree misdemeanor lives up to the destroying of a family that one user dreams of. It remains troubling to me that there is a law in place to begin with, and that someone dreams of a family being destroyed.

 

Millenial? Now that’s funny.

 

As for me, I will continue to do what I always do; stand either between the opposing sides of bleachers or at either end of the ice, hands in pockets, watching the game. Will continue to keep my mouth shut and watch the lunatics in the stands.

 

 

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One additional thought on the matter:

Some who get upset at the refereeing will label it as PAHL problem.  That is incorrect thinking.  PAHL is just one league that is served by the local pool of referees.  The same group of referees covers PPE, Esmark, Icemen, independent teams, middle school, high school, college, and beer league.  Something to keep in mind if you think your player needs to move on from PAHL next year.

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11 minutes ago, Chinstrap said:

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=1989&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0227&pn=3049

 

Original text of the law.

 

You got me. Probably should not have clipped that quote. Guilty.

 

But after reading the text of the law, not sure that a first degree misdemeanor lives up to the destroying of a family that one user dreams of. It remains troubling to me that there is a law in place to begin with, and that someone dreams of a family being destroyed.

 

Millenial? Now that’s funny.

 

As for me, I will continue to do what I always do; stand either between the opposing sides of bleachers or at either end of the ice, hands in pockets, watching the game. Will continue to keep my mouth shut and watch the lunatics in the stands.

 

 

https://www.phillyref.com/articles/pennrefassault.html

 

try this link. Now, imagine a loudmouth tough guy being given the max sentence of 5 years. Don’t think that will wreck a family? Think it through. And it’s usually the weasels that stand off to the side that wait for their chance and feel justified in throwing a sucker punch because they can’t control themselves. Happened recently. Educate yourself. 

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11 minutes ago, Chinstrap said:

First I am a Millennial (1981-1996), not even close.

 

Now I’m a weasel.

 

I agree there are heated emotions at youth hockey games. Never been me. Look elsewhere for your vitriol and ad hominem attacks. Not me bro.

Whether you are an actual millennial or not, you sure do wear the costume well. Which is actually worse. And these aren’t just “heated emotions”. These are people who think they have some right that allows them to attempt to verbally or god forbid physically intimidate or assault a youth sports official. You’re a special kind of entitled scumbag to think that’s ever acceptable. The fact you feel the need to explain yourself and verify on a message board that it’s “not me bro”, tells me a lot. You’ve probably spent most of the time manipulating behind the scenes to this point. Picking and complaining to people in an effort to disrupt the function of an organization or event because your voice wasn’t being heard or your little guy or gal isn’t getting what you deserve. It’s all the same and leads to the same result. Just shut up and drop them off at the rink. They’ll be better off

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On 2/4/2019 at 12:33 PM, rock said:

they may not be sent to NCAA but they are used in placements and evaluations of kids for peewee rankings and placements.. so yeah they should be as correct as possible.. your other points are very valid.. However the officiating the past few years has been atrocious.. human or not.. they need to do a better job or at the min not be so 1 sided in there calls / non calls every game. its not difficult to call a fair game.  some of them don't even bother to leave the neutral zone, they are never in position when calling a goal or no goal, won't get out of the way when a puck is coming at them and won't even bother explaining calls to the coaches.. so most of the harassment is self inflicted. 

Points are used in placements for kids? Elaborate? What does an individual child’s point total have to do with rankings? 

 

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So this officiating thing is very comparable to their current climate surrounding law enforcement. 

You have a minority of people who ruin it for the masses. Then blanket labels start getting thrown around. 

Here is reality as I see it. Most referees are trying to do their job adequately and leave. Are they thick skinned and sometimes aloof? Absolutely, they had to be. Common sense tells you that. 

The amount of absolute nonsense these guys have to put up with is not even worth the job in my opinion. As I mentioned earlier, they can’t get through a two minute sequence of the game without some parent from either team yelling about something. Or a coach throwing a temper tantrum. 

It should be widely acknowledged, during the famed parent meetings at the beginning of the season, that it is not a referees job to call every single infraction that happens on the ice. You may not understand it, but that’s reality. 

These women and men are there to moderate a collision sport that moves a lot faster than the average person can process it. 

Yes they will be wrong sometimes not nearly, even remotely as close as the vitriol from the stands indicates. 

 

 

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Pahl didn't do the refs any favors by implementing the fair play point. All that did was cause them to be scrutinized even more. Refs are indeed human, and do not have the luxury of video replay. Any wrong or questionable calls are put under the spotlight even more because they have the possibility of affecting a teams post season. It's a flawed system that passes the buck so the league doesn't have to be the bad guy and deal with the repeat offenders who actually are the problem.

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On 2/4/2019 at 1:28 PM, Wampa1 said:

Example 1/1,000,000 of why hockey parents in WPA are human garbage. These kids don’t stand a chance. These are the “men” they have to look up to. And forget the mothers. Coddling has taken on a new meaning with these twits. Officials are human and susceptible to mistakes. That does not give any “coach” (and I use that term loosely with all the clowns in this area currently coaching at the mite-pee wee levels) or parent the right to berate them and the officials should start exercising their right to punish these idiots. Look up the PA state law passed in 1990 regarding abuse of youth sports officials. I dream of the day a family is destroyed because the law did its job and hammered one of these morons that can’t get over striking out in little league or their inadequacies with their manhood. 

If you think atrocious parent behavior is unique to western PA hockey parents then you don't get out much. It happens in all 50 states,$58,160 in all sports.  Attend a youth baseball game in DC, a gymnastics tournament in NC , a football game in Anywhere, TX.  Anabolic parents are all over.

Lastly, if you use your loose label of  "clowns" coaching at the Mite - PW level then you should volunteer your time to improve the process and environment.  It seems like you have all of the answers and were recently voted "Dad of the Year."  The last time a parent like you came up to me and questioned why his kid was "short shifted" when in fact he had a few shorter shifts due to penalties or ref whistles / line changes, I took my coaches jacket off and told him he could have it and take my place.  Dude looked me straight in the eye and said "I don't know how to skate."

Nuff said.

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4 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

If you think atrocious parent behavior is unique to western PA hockey parents then you don't get out much. It happens in all 50 states,$58,160 in all sports.  Attend a youth baseball game in DC, a gymnastics tournament in NC , a football game in Anywhere, TX.  Anabolic parents are all over.

Lastly, if you use your loose label of  "clowns" coaching at the Mite - PW level then you should volunteer your time to improve the process and environment.  It seems like you have all of the answers and were recently voted "Dad of the Year."  The last time a parent like you came up to me and questioned why his kid was "short shifted" when in fact he had a few shorter shifts due to penalties or ref whistles / line changes, I took my coaches jacket off and told him he could have it and take my place.  Dude looked me straight in the eye and said "I don't know how to skate."

Nuff said.

Woah what an original comeback junior! You showed that guy.

Anyway, I’m not talking about any other sport in any other area but this one. At no time did I say it was unique to this area. But this message board is titled what again? What region and sport does it cover? 

 

Nuff said

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