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42 minutes ago, rock said:

here is what I've learned so far from you: 

1. if you reply on a forum your mad

2. if you have an opinion keep it to yourself

3. if you reply more than once your really mad

4. trolls get off when you get mad

5. if someone doesn't agree with you then you should call them names

6. people know everything about you just from 1 post

7. troll can respond without being mad, they are just doing their job

8. grammar is really important

9. being polite is totally out of the question

10. don't question the troll they obviously know everything about everything 

11. adding something to a post means your really really mad

 

could you help me with one more thing i'd like to learn Wampa1? 

 

 

Way too easy

Edited by one97one00
Consistency with prior edit of quoted comment

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40 minutes ago, Wampa1 said:

Way too easy

bingo! 

 

12: trolls have to have the last word!! 

 

 

wait for it.. wait for it... 

Edited by rock
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So far this year. I saw a kid get away with three punches to an opposing players head. Ref claimed he saw nothing. A net that was off and the ref let it go for a full minute before a team scored on it and a team that scored with 7 players on the ice after pulling their goalie. I get the argument that refs are human, but as parents who spend a ton of money on this sport. We can ask for better officiating. I'm tired of hearing the argument that if I don't like it I should put on the stripes.No, I pay my money for my kid to play this sport, it's not cheap. I want a better product. I want a better experience for my kids.   Refs have been worse this year than most. Can't argue that. 

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3 minutes ago, 2&10 said:

So far this year. I saw a kid get away with three punches to an opposing players head. Ref claimed he saw nothing. A net that was off and the ref let it go for a full minute before a team scored on it and a team that scored with 7 players on the ice after pulling their goalie. I get the argument that refs are human, but as parents who spend a ton of money on this sport. We can ask for better officiating. I'm tired of hearing the argument that if I don't like it I should put on the stripes.No, I pay my money for my kid to play this sport, it's not cheap. I want a better product. I want a better experience for my kids.   Refs have been worse this year than most. Can't argue that. 

I can argue that because it’s not any different than it has been in the 30+ years I’ve been involved. I wouldn’t suggest to any parent to put on the stripes. It’s hard enough with competent officials let alone a biased, inexperienced party attempting the job. The money you pay gives you no rights other than the roster spot you accepted. Like it or not. It’s a sport that requires a membership fee. A high one at that. But you have no other rights as a parent because of the cost.  Especially playing time or any other game involved issues. No one is twisting your arm to pay the fee. 

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Actually, the fees that he pays to his club includes all things related to the game of hockey.  Coaching, EMT’s and Refs included. That fact, certainly entitles him to have and voice his opinions and concerns about referees.

 The fact is, there are good referees out there and bad ones out there. Unfortunately, everyone just has to go with the flow.

In my opinion, if coaches, parents and players will just keep their mouths shut, the referees would do a better job.  They would have more time to concentrate on the game while not having to worry about others yelling at them.  Nowadays, teams even get homered at home because certain referees get to know crazy coaches and parents.   They begin to dislike them and as soon as a particular coach/parent opens his/her mouth, the homering begins.

Love/Hate is everyone’s experience with a referee.

Edited by PuckHead7

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19 minutes ago, PuckHead7 said:

Actually, the fees that he pays to his club includes all things related to the game of hockey.  Coaching, EMT’s and Refs included. That fact, certainly entitles him to have and voice his opinions and concerns about referees.

 The fact is, there are good referees out there and bad ones out there. Unfortunately, everyone just has to go with the flow.

In my opinion, if coaches, parents and players will just keep their mouths shut, the referees would do a better job.  They would have more time to concentrate on the game while not having to worry about others yelling at them.  Nowadays, teams even get homered at home because certain referees get to know crazy coaches and parents.   They begin to dislike them and as soon as a particular coach/parent opens his/her mouth, the homering begins.

Love/Hate is everyone’s experience with a referee.

No see your wrong again. Learn to read the forms you sign when you sign your kid up for any club. These fees are membership fees. No different than a social club. You have a right to discuss how the money is used through proper channels. That means a chain of command. You also have the right to not go back to an organization or play another sport. You can also come to a message board and whine and complain. Or pretend you have a voice that anyone with any pull in the sport will hear or care about. As a parent, you’re low man on the totem pole. The sooner you people realize and accept your place, the better it’ll be for the kids. Here it is again for you to read- YOU HAVE NO OTHER RIGHTS THAN THE ROSTER SPOT YOUR KID GETS.  Again, no one cares what parents opinions on game play or officiating are. This is the perfect forum for parents. Please continue to voice your ridiculous and inexperienced opinions on this message board. It is endless amusement for those that actually progress the sport for the kids. 

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On 2/7/2019 at 12:11 PM, rock said:

if i did my job as bad as some do theirs, i would be fired.. that isn't all of them, all the time, but some are very consistently bad.. so why do they get a pass?? they shouldn't be held accountable?

How do you know they are doing a bad job? You did not see what they saw. The game is completely different when seen from the ice level.

The refereeing is in most part consistent with the level that is being played. Watch the NFL playoffs this year? A couple questions about officiating there, yes? The NFL is the most profitable sports league in the world and they don't get it right all the time even with replay and a dozen camera angles.

Let if go people. Mistakes happen. the really bad ones will get weeded out and its not your job to do it.

Use (what you see as) a mistake as a learning opportunity for your kids.

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Officiating is difficult and thankless in all sports but you can't play without them.  Can anyone post a link for how to go about becoming a Hockey Referee?  Any idea how much they get paid per game in the PAHL? PIHL? College games?

I see a lot of younger Officials. Any idea of the age limit to become an official?  From what I have seen for the most part they are trying out there.  That's good enough for me.

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43 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Officiating is difficult and thankless in all sports but you can't play without them.  Can anyone post a link for how to go about becoming a Hockey Referee?  Any idea how much they get paid per game in the PAHL? PIHL? College games?

I see a lot of younger Officials. Any idea of the age limit to become an official?  From what I have seen for the most part they are trying out there.  That's good enough for me.

https://www.usahockey.com/officials

It's time consuming and a little expensive upfront to become an official. USA hockey allows a minimum age of 12 but every state has different child labor laws. Every year they have a bunch of kids go to the seminar and never complete the training. If they complete it, they quit in the first few years, a lot of them citing parents. We have a shortage now, and each year it gets worse. 

It pays pretty good, depends on the program. About $30 an hour.

The comment about ice views is dead on. I read somewhere that there are actually six different views of the ice. This was driven home for me recently, I watched on Livebarn a pass I was particularly proud of because I made it through a ton of traffic and it wasn't easy to see my teammate. The Livebarn view made it look completely unexceptional, to my supreme disappointment. What you see from above is not what you see on ice.

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I certainly understand that all refs are human and are going to miss things. The players and coaches mess up every game much more than the officials...

however, it irritates me incredibly bad when a ref is not capable of skating to keep up with the play. In a three man system, when they put the bands on the guy with seniority instead of giving it to the young ref who can get up and down the ice. Problem is the refs are too stubborn to realize that they eventually reach a point where they should only be doing lines in higher level games.

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On 2/13/2019 at 9:04 AM, Icebucket said:

I certainly understand that all refs are human and are going to miss things. The players and coaches mess up every game much more than the officials...

however, it irritates me incredibly bad when a ref is not capable of skating to keep up with the play. In a three man system, when they put the bands on the guy with seniority instead of giving it to the young ref who can get up and down the ice. Problem is the refs are too stubborn to realize that they eventually reach a point where they should only be doing lines in higher level games.

You should just go to the 4 man system for u10, u12 and u14 games and have goal judges for every game. Also only experienced efficient skating officials that have previous NCAA, Semi Pro or Pro games under their belt be allowed these games. New learning officials should not be given the chance at these games, maybe put the new guys in the pro level games since the players know all the rules and can ref themselves. That sound like it would work. Or maybe whistle should be given out to all the people in the stands, having all those eyes and views they would never miss a call or get it wrong. HA HA HA.

This entire thread is a joke.

The players as well as the referees are learning, The officiating organizations and schedulers try their best to distribute games and pair experienced refs with newer refs and provide feedback. Refs are responsible for honing their skills, taking the test and learning on the job what it takes to be a good official.  Yes there are refs that have made poor calls, you could ask any NHL Ref and they could site the many mistakes they made and learned from coming up. But the constant bashing is a joke and anyone on here bashing referees really has no clue what is going on or the rules of the game. It is clear there is a shortage as who would want to deal with the people that commented on here. If you really think it is that bad, come up with a better system, I find it hard to believe it would be much different and would not have the same restraints the current system has.

 

 

Edited by mrfreeze

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I have read a lot of complaints but not one has any ideas on how to fix the so called problems. 

 

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On 2/15/2019 at 10:11 AM, mrfreeze said:

You should just go to the 4 man system for u10, u12 and u14 games and have goal judges for every game. Also only experienced efficient skating officials that have previous NCAA, Semi Pro or Pro games under their belt be allowed these games. New learning officials should not be given the chance at these games, maybe put the new guys in the pro level games since the players know all the rules and can ref themselves. That sound like it would work. Or maybe whistle should be given out to all the people in the stands, having all those eyes and views they would never miss a call or get it wrong. HA HA HA.

This entire thread is a joke.

The players as well as the referees are learning, The officiating organizations and schedulers try their best to distribute games and pair experienced refs with newer refs and provide feedback. Refs are responsible for honing their skills, taking the test and learning on the job what it takes to be a good official.  Yes there are refs that have made poor calls, you could ask any NHL Ref and they could site the many mistakes they made and learned from coming up. But the constant bashing is a joke and anyone on here bashing referees really has no clue what is going on or the rules of the game. It is clear there is a shortage as who would want to deal with the people that commented on here. If you really think it is that bad, come up with a better system, I find it hard to believe it would be much different and would not have the same restraints the current system has.

 

 

All you did there was further prove my point. I was saying that the yournger up and coming refs should wear the bands for u16 and u18 AAA games. I stated that they are learning and need to be given this chance. It is a shame that the older refs who can no longer keep up take this opportunity from the younger officials so they can make the extra buck.

 

it is apparent that you are one of those refs who the game has passed by.  Your stubbornness and greed have blinded you from allowing the younger refs the opportunity to learn and grow.  I hope you feel good about yourself

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6 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

All you did there was further prove my point. I was saying that the yournger up and coming refs should wear the bands for u16 and u18 AAA games. I stated that they are learning and need to be given this chance. It is a shame that the older refs who can no longer keep up take this opportunity from the younger officials so they can make the extra buck.

 

it is apparent that you are one of those refs who the game has passed by.  Your stubbornness and greed have blinded you from allowing the younger refs the opportunity to learn and grow.  I hope you feel good about yourself

Hey dummy, learn to read. No younger refs will get certified because of no nothing bleacher experts like you. And you still have no qualifications to critique anyone. Pay the bills, volunteer for the box, and shut up

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4 hours ago, Wampa1 said:

Hey dummy, learn to read. No younger refs will get certified because of no nothing bleacher experts like you. And you still have no qualifications to critique anyone. Pay the bills, volunteer for the box, and shut up

None of my kids came up through the system in this area, but I have coached 15+ years of u18AAA, juniors and college. The few years in Pittsburgh was the only place I saw this as a problem. It’s a local issue with these older refs, not global..

Glad you think of me as a bleacher expert though, didn’t realize your knowledge of the game was superior to mine. You must be correct.

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1 hour ago, Icebucket said:

None of my kids came up through the system in this area, but I have coached 15+ years of u18AAA, juniors and college. The few years in Pittsburgh was the only place I saw this as a problem. It’s a local issue with these older refs, not global..

Glad you think of me as a bleacher expert though, didn’t realize your knowledge of the game was superior to mine. You must be correct.

Yes amazing resume. Very convenient you’ve chosen 3 vague examples of  high level hockey. Officiating is no different in Pittsburgh than any other area. Again, when young officials see what garbage they have to deal with, they get out.

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You need only sit down and watch a NHL game on any given tonight to see poor officiating. Just like this afternoon's Penguins game. This game is on Nationally and viewers get to see two guys watch fouls committed and not make the calls. Then they decide that what happened in one post-whistle scrum is far more egregious than the previous 3 even though they were pretty much identical.

If the NHL players are whom players strive to emulate then one would assume that the same is true for the officials and so youth refereeing basically mimics the game on TV.

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On 2/16/2019 at 9:52 PM, Wampa1 said:

Officiating is no different in Pittsburgh than any other area. Again, when young officials see what garbage they have to deal with, they get out.

Just curious, are you from Western Pa?  It sounds like you have been involved with youth hockey here for a long time.  Do you think the parents here are that much worse than every where else?  Finally any ideas on how to fix the problems.  Or is it just a know it all culture in Western Pa.  I have herd of some pretty tough behavior associated with Midget Football in Western Pa also. What do you think makes us this way?   You seem to have very strong opinions so I'd be interested in your thoughts.

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1 minute ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Just curious, are you from Western Pa?  It sounds like you have been involved with youth hockey here for a long time.  Do you think the parents here are that much worse than every where else?  Finally any ideas on how to fix the problems.  Or is it just a know it all culture in Western Pa.  I have herd of some pretty tough behavior associated with Midget Football in Western Pa also. What do you think makes us this way?   You seem to have very strong opinions so I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I’m not a psychiatrist so I couldn’t speak to what is the root cause with any certainty. What I will say is that the depth of the talent pool may have a lot to do with the access most people have to the admistration of the game in Western PA. When you have inexperienced and biased people run anything, they revert instictively to what they know. I’m more densely populated hockey cultures like Eastern PA and further North East (which influences Eastern PA), there is more competition to rise above. The amateur and high school leagues will more than likely be run by more experienced and qualified people.

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So you think there is hope for Western Pa as the hockey talent pool becomes more seasoned?  My sons played hockey back in the 90's both PAHL, PIHL and then College club Hockey.  Now I am watching my grandkids play. I will tell you that the officials took much less grief from the stands back in the 90's. I saw more than 1 fan & parent get asked to leave a game and the refs wouldn't start the game again till they left.  I wouldn't be opposed to seeing that happen again.  I'm sure it does but it seems the refs take more now. I will tell you that I think the skill level of the players is vastly improved over the 90's.  Anyway you seem to have a unique view of all this. How do you see yourself In this? As a fan of hockey? Concerned parent? Agent for change?

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13 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So you think there is hope for Western Pa as the hockey talent pool becomes more seasoned?  My sons played hockey back in the 90's both PAHL, PIHL and then College club Hockey.  Now I am watching my grandkids play. I will tell you that the officials took much less grief from the stands back in the 90's. I saw more than 1 fan & parent get asked to leave a game and the refs wouldn't start the game again till they left.  I wouldn't be opposed to seeing that happen again.  I'm sure it does but it seems the refs take more now. I will tell you that I think the skill level of the players is vastly improved over the 90's.  Anyway you seem to have a unique view of all this. How do you see yourself In this? As a fan of hockey? Concerned parent? Agent for change?

I think ejecting parents needs to happen more often and, unfortunately sometimes it takes ejecting their kids as well to teach them a lesson. 

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14 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So you think there is hope for Western Pa as the hockey talent pool becomes more seasoned?  My sons played hockey back in the 90's both PAHL, PIHL and then College club Hockey.  Now I am watching my grandkids play. I will tell you that the officials took much less grief from the stands back in the 90's. I saw more than 1 fan & parent get asked to leave a game and the refs wouldn't start the game again till they left.  I wouldn't be opposed to seeing that happen again.  I'm sure it does but it seems the refs take more now. I will tell you that I think the skill level of the players is vastly improved over the 90's.  Anyway you seem to have a unique view of all this. How do you see yourself In this? As a fan of hockey? Concerned parent? Agent for change?

Interesting question. I’d say I’m all 3. Problem is, for change to occur in any medium, it takes guts. Too many people have money and influence on the line to make any waves in the current culture. Litigation rules the  land. Very few people have the stones to take a stand. Plus, it’s an actual basis of legal decisions not to hurt someone’s feelings or offend them. That’s why you could have no tolerance policies in the ‘90’s. If someone shot there mouth off out of turn, they got put in their place. You’re correct that the skill level is much higher. But emotionally the population is decades behind.

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