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So at Tier 1 18U, the only team from Michigan is Meijer and there are 4 teams from the MidAm District. In the "this makes no sense" world, Esmark leads the way having been outscored 14-3 in their first two games, while Culver is a close second considering they didn't didn't even participate in the MidAm tournament. Such a great group of folks leading our District.

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1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

So at Tier 18U, the only team from Michigan is Meijer and there are 4 teams from the MidAm District. In the "this makes no sense" world, Esmark leads the way having been outscored 14-3 in their first two games, while Culver is a close second considering they didn't didn't even participate in the MidAm tournament. Such a great group of folks leading our District.

I suspect covid had something to to do with the mid am district getting all 3 at large bids. traditionally our district is considered “middle of the pack”. It looks like a few districts may not be represented. 
 

For better or worse, politics & imports (it pains me to say it) - we can all agree PPE is the best tier 1 program in western pa. 90% of the time PPE wins the district at 14,15,16 & 18. Locally, Esmark is the only other real “AAA” option. You folks can see how far that gap truly is now with esmark sneaking into nationals due to covid. 9-2 loss to the NJ Avs (who were rolling lines at the start of the game). PPE is 2-0, esmark 0-2 with the worst goals differential in the tournament. 
 

this should be a lesson to the dreamers paying for FAUX teams such as the predators, icemen & vengeance. You folks are wasting your money, these teams are just mid to low level AA teams. I would be willing to wager the top 3 PAHL AA teams at U18 & U16 would beat the “AAA” teams put out on the ice by the predators and icemen this season. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I suspect covid had something to to do with the mid am district getting all 3 at large bids. traditionally our district is considered “middle of the pack”. It looks like a few districts may not be represented. 
 

For better or worse, politics & imports (it pains me to say it) - we can all agree PPE is the best tier 1 program in western pa. 90% of the time PPE wins the district at 14,15,16 & 18. Locally, Esmark is the only other real “AAA” option. You folks can see how far that gap truly is now with esmark sneaking into nationals due to covid. 9-2 loss to the NJ Avs (who were rolling lines at the start of the game). PPE is 2-0, esmark 0-2 with the worst goals differential in the tournament. 
 

this should be a lesson to the dreamers paying for FAUX teams such as the predators, icemen & vengeance. You folks are wasting your money, these teams are just mid to low level AA teams. I would be willing to wager the top 3 PAHL AA teams at U18 & U16 would beat the “AAA” teams put out on the ice by the predators and icemen this season. 
 

 

Agreed and frankly with Esmark starting the money grab with 08-12 birth year teams this year they aren't far behind all these other faux teams. It's a shame Pens aren't willing to actually try to grow the sport locally  rather than poach the best rich kids

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17 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Agreed and frankly with Esmark starting the money grab with 08-12 birth year teams this year they aren't far behind all these other faux teams. It's a shame Pens aren't willing to actually try to grow the sport locally  rather than poach the best rich kids

So how do the Pens grow the sport locally?  Seems like they get bashed because they are the best and everyone else is a Faux AAA player. Not sure what Danner has against kids wanting to play AAA.  He seems to be the authority on who is AAA and who isn't.

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21 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So how do the Pens grow the sport locally?  Seems like they get bashed because they are the best and everyone else is a Faux AAA player. Not sure what Danner has against kids wanting to play AAA.  He seems to be the authority on who is AAA and who isn't.

The Pens grow the sport locally through the Little Pens Learn to Play program, then through their Lil’ 66’ers teams.  PPE teams used to consist mostly of local talent, then they began recruiting out of state for the older kids teams, now it’s a matter of time until they start importing 8-9 year olds and pump the parents up with AAA talk so they can uproot their families from Chicago, FL or other areas and move here to fulfill little Johnny’s NHL dreams. 

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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So how do the Pens grow the sport locally?  Seems like they get bashed because they are the best and everyone else is a Faux AAA player. Not sure what Danner has against kids wanting to play AAA.  He seems to be the authority on who is AAA and who isn't.

Unfortunately, the only real AAA in western pa is PPE followed by esmark midget. As stated above, you can see how far the gap is between these two clubs. I have nothing against any kid or extra A status parent. Spend your money however you like -  It’s just the truth. 

My biggest problem with PPE is how they are using youth hockey not just to fund the pro practice rink but also make a profit after the pro bills are paid from youth hockey! The penguins along with upmc are also using this business model as a tax shelter. PPE makes more money off import players. 

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5 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

The Pens grow the sport locally through the Little Pens Learn to Play program, then through their Lil’ 66’ers teams.  Teams used to consist mostly of local talent, then they began recruiting out of state for the older kids teams, now it’s a matter of time until they start importing 8-9 year olds and pump the parents up with AAA talk so they can uproot their families from Chicago, FL or other areas and move here to fulfill little Johnny’s NHL dreams. 

To an extent, PPE is a joke because they import kids from out of the area.  Several years ago there was supposed to be a rule where they would only have a few out of town kids, but that rule went out the window when winning became the sole objective.  So in my mind they really don't do a whole lot for true "local" kids.  I know a number of local kids who went to Cleveland, Maryland, Culver and played there rather than PPE.  One of our kids lost their spot on PPE when they turned down playing for SSA (because we couldn't afford $25k for high school).  All the kids who played (female) SSA also never got cut from PPE.

There's a reason why they make the rosters hard to find for PPE and never have any BIOs for the kids, it's because most of the kids nowadays are from out of Western PA.

 

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5 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Unfortunately, the only real AAA in western pa is PPE followed by esmark midget. As stated above, you can see how far the gap is between these two clubs. I have nothing against any kid or extra A status parent. Spend your money however you like -  It’s just the truth. 

My biggest problem with PPE is how they are using youth hockey not just to fund the pro practice rink but also make a profit after the pro bills are paid from youth hockey! The penguins along with upmc are also using this business model as a tax shelter. PPE makes more money off import players. 

agree fully, but I think Esmark usually has more local kids on their rosters each year. 

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2 hours ago, Wes said:

To an extent, PPE is a joke because they import kids from out of the area.  Several years ago there was supposed to be a rule where they would only have a few out of town kids, but that rule went out the window when winning became the sole objective.  So in my mind they really don't do a whole lot for true "local" kids.  I know a number of local kids who went to Cleveland, Maryland, Culver and played there rather than PPE.  One of our kids lost their spot on PPE when they turned down playing for SSA (because we couldn't afford $25k for high school).  All the kids who played (female) SSA also never got cut from PPE.

There's a reason why they make the rosters hard to find for PPE and never have any BIOs for the kids, it's because most of the kids nowadays are from out of Western PA.

 

PPE rosters are always easy to find on their website.  I know of two SSA girl players that got cut from Pen Elite.  Someone has hurt feelings 

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46 minutes ago, HereWithPopcorn said:

Speaking of local teams, I am baffled at how Steel City 16U Tier 2 advanced to the Quarterfinals when they are 0-3, while a team with one win didn’t advance, nor did another winless team with a better 

1 hour ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Looks like across the board, both boys and girls and Tier 1 and Tier 2, Pittsburgh teams arent exactly having great results at Nationals. Exceptions being PPE U16 and U18 boys

On the boys side, PPE U16 is the only western PA still playing, no other Tier 1 or Tier 2 got further thab QF, and almost all didnt win more than 1 game. U18s got smoked 6-3 in QF.  Is Pittsburgh really a hockey hotbed?

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21 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

The Pens grow the sport locally through the Little Pens Learn to Play program, then through their Lil’ 66’ers teams.  PPE teams used to consist mostly of local talent, then they began recruiting out of state for the older kids teams, now it’s a matter of time until they start importing 8-9 year olds and pump the parents up with AAA talk so they can uproot their families from Chicago, FL or other areas and move here to fulfill little Johnny’s NHL dreams. 

so you all think pens should take only local kids when every other top 5 AAA team at 16 and 18 has kids from across the globe. if pens did that at 16 and 18 snd only took local “talent” they certainly wouldn’t be top 5 at the only levels that matter. get a grip. if your kid is local and good enough they are on PENS. i can think of many many examples. they don’t not make the team because they are local. 

and i can think of a few examples of local kids who are good enough not only make the team but also do NOT go to NC. if you are good enough they want you. period. one local never went to NC and is moved on to extreme high levels and is still young. Pens wanted him because he is a great hockey player. not because of politics, not because he was going to NC and not because his parents are rich. they make decisions mostly with the goal of being a top rated team. sure mistakes are made along the way and some are there because of politics but local true talent is recruited by pens - it is just few and far between.  don’t fool yourselves into thinking your kid is great but they don’t bother w locals. that is hogwash 

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13 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Looks like across the board, both boys and girls and Tier 1 and Tier 2, Pittsburgh teams arent exactly having great results at Nationals. Exceptions being PPE U16 and U18 boys

16U NP went 2-1...not too bad.  Only two win team not moving on.  Had one horrible period in their first game (5GA) which came back to haunt them.

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13 hours ago, HereWithPopcorn said:

Speaking of local teams, I am baffled at how Steel City 16U Tier 2 advanced to the Quarterfinals when they are 0-3, while a team with one win didn’t advance, nor did another winless team with a better goal differential?

It is because of how pool play was structured - they did not play any teams in their division which makes zero sense.  So all three teams in their division were 0-3 against other teams outside of their division and Steel City advanced only because of goal differential.  I am sure the coaches and players of the Bay State Breakers, which went 1-1-0-1 with four points but did not advance were really happy to see an 0-3 team with zero points move on.

https://nationals.usahockey.com/2021girlstierii16u2a

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22 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

PPE rosters are always easy to find on their website.  I know of two SSA girl players that got cut from Pen Elite.  Someone has hurt feelings 

Show me where their hometowns are listed.  They aren't and there's a reason for that.  My feelings aren't hurt.  My daughter got the same opportunities in college as most of her former PPE teammates, so I am not shedding any tears, smarty-pants.

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33 minutes ago, Wes said:

Show me where their hometowns are listed.  They aren't and there's a reason for that.  My feelings aren't hurt.  My daughter got the same opportunities in college as most of her former PPE teammates, so I am not shedding any tears, smarty-pants.

Here you go. Feel free to count the grand total of out of town players on PPE and Esmark. Just using these as the example since they’re the most hotly debated. 
 

Nothing malicious about not listing amateur hockey player hometowns on a team’s website. It’s hit or miss across the entire country on whether or not a hometown is listed for teams. 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/12789/pittsburgh-penguins-elite-18u

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/15751/esmark-stars-18u-aaa

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On 4/30/2021 at 2:06 PM, Danner27 said:

I suspect covid had something to to do with the mid am district getting all 3 at large bids. traditionally our district is considered “middle of the pack”. It looks like a few districts may not be represented. 
 

For better or worse, politics & imports (it pains me to say it) - we can all agree PPE is the best tier 1 program in western pa. 90% of the time PPE wins the district at 14,15,16 & 18. Locally, Esmark is the only other real “AAA” option. You folks can see how far that gap truly is now with esmark sneaking into nationals due to covid. 9-2 loss to the NJ Avs (who were rolling lines at the start of the game). PPE is 2-0, esmark 0-2 with the worst goals differential in the tournament. 
 

this should be a lesson to the dreamers paying for FAUX teams such as the predators, icemen & vengeance. You folks are wasting your money, these teams are just mid to low level AA teams. I would be willing to wager the top 3 PAHL AA teams at U18 & U16 would beat the “AAA” teams put out on the ice by the predators and icemen this season. 
 

 

I was thinking Esmark got a bid because their 18 team won districts last year and Nationals were cancelled.    just a side note:  the Johnstown Tomahawks of the NAHL drafted a kid last year from western PA that played his 18U year as a Predator.  I believe he was cut at tryouts from the Pens and Esmark.  Bet he's glad his parents didn't read you comments about how FAUX his team was and a waste of money.  

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I think there should be a model where if you're from x district, you play for for the RMU. You're from y district, you play for north Pittsburgh. You're from z district, then Renegades is your team. Same with AAA teams. Juniors and up, yeah go wherever. Take the high school model for instance. Teams are separated A though AAAAA or whatever. Competing teams have basically the same amount of kids to draw from. Your district doesn't have a team, you can play a district over. Can't make a team? That's what house league is for. Everyone's on a level playing field. 

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7 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

I think there should be a model where if you're from x district, you play for for the RMU. You're from y district, you play for north Pittsburgh. You're from z district, then Renegades is your team. Same with AAA teams. Juniors and up, yeah go wherever. Take the high school model for instance. Teams are separated A though AAAAA or whatever. Competing teams have basically the same amount of kids to draw from. Your district doesn't have a team, you can play a district over. Can't make a team? That's what house league is for. Everyone's on a level playing field. 

Sounds like High School Hockey to me!  Some school districts already try to do that all the way down to ADM.  Don't most kids play close to their home in PAHL?  I know there are some that for whatever reason are disgruntled with the closest organization and go down the road.  A lot more flexible than having to move if you are unhappy with your school sports.

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9 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

I think there should be a model where if you're from x district, you play for for the RMU. You're from y district, you play for north Pittsburgh.

This model is used in Minnesota for high school and the Chicago amateur league kind of works this way.  If you don't like your club, you get 1 free hop to another club then that's it.  There is no hopping from team to team each year like some west PA families do.  

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12 hours ago, 3v3 said:

Here you go. Feel free to count the grand total of out of town players on PPE and Esmark. Just using these as the example since they’re the most hotly debated. 
 

Nothing malicious about not listing amateur hockey player hometowns on a team’s website. It’s hit or miss across the entire country on whether or not a hometown is listed for teams. 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/12789/pittsburgh-penguins-elite-18u

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/15751/esmark-stars-18u-aaa

That their own website doesn't have this info, and you have to go to Elite Prospects says it all. Glad you're making excuses for PPE.

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15 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

This model is used in Minnesota for high school and the Chicago amateur league kind of works this way.  If you don't like your club, you get 1 free hop to another club then that's it.  There is no hopping from team to team each year like some west PA families do.  

This is one of those ideas that makes sense and doesn't. On the one hand, there are plenty of coaches who will tell you that moving around like that hurts development and makes planning very difficult, and it's hard for organizations to plan for teams for next season if they can't predict who will be where. On the other hand, there are plenty of parents who will say that they should be free to seek the best fit for their players.

It's my observation that, for the top players, team shopping seems to be at least occasionally effective, even if it is unappetizingly mercenary. For lower caliber players, however, it seems to never work out the way the parents want. It's hard to come into a new organization where nobody knows you and get a fair shake for A minor players.

Isn't this more or less the way little league works in most places in our area? For my part, I would tend to agree with such a rule.

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