Deke715
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Posts posted by Deke715
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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:
They still playing in New Ken? Uphill and losing battle. More and better hockey players up and down the 79 corridor and in the south hills. They would have much better success starting a new AAA team from scratch at Printscape. Just a massive area you can pull from compared to New Ken.
Everything about that situation in New Ken is bad!
They built all of these Esmark specific locker room areas. Esmark will have to raise tuition to cover the added expenses of all that.
Black Bears Huskies program may only field a team or two next season.
I'm not sure how they keep the doors open at PIA next year. Black Bear can't even get a name sponsor for the place!
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9 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:
So he's no longer at Renegades?
I understand he wore out his welcome there pretty quickly
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Puckcovid19
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In more ways than you can even imagine, my friend!
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This is the CJ Stellabotte effect at Esmark. Promises all of these young families that he can turn their kids into "Stars". Gets them into his lessons, places them on faux "AAA" teams. I believe all 4 teams at Peewee or below have kids playing up birth years. All done to appease these "delusional" parents that you speak of. As someone stated before me, this should be criminal!
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1 minute ago, HockeyFan6687 said:
Don’t forget the work he did with W Graeme Roustan trying to run a network of ice rinks including one in Johnstown, then the two of them who tried to take over all Cambria County Ice Rinks and the Johnstown ECHL team. Their rinks all closed and the team was run into the ground.
Yep, the NOW Mercer Chiefs that his buddy Mr. Gunty owns. They were once called the Johnstown Chiefs named after the movie Slapshot! They didn't even bother changing the logo!
I wouldn't sign up for any of his online Hockey Schools either!
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On 12/29/2022 at 1:25 PM, Clonbur said:
Please read my previous post many months ago. The writing was on the wall. The Viper Board is toxic and drove many away from Pittsburgh Ice. It only makes sense for Pittsburgh Ice to partner with a program that promotes hockey in a positive light.
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On 12/29/2022 at 2:51 PM, Clonbur said:
It's not about me. It's about the kids and the benefits of playing the great sport of Hockey. If the Vipers made decisions in the best interest of Hockey and the Kids, they wouldn't be in this position. A landlord doesn't evict good tenants.
This is Ryan Patrick's boss. Yep! Replacing the Vipers "parent" board with this guy is great for youth hockey! Look up his name yourself and you will find that this is at least the 3rd time he has done this to a hockey entity. Have fun being a Husky, you STOOGE!
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14 hours ago, Rebel Panther said:
Back to what started this thread, did the Allegheny Badgers give full control of their club to Black Bear as the Black Bear website seems to indicate?
I believe that Black Bear employees control the Badgers board. So they control the Badgers but do not own them. Sure sounds like a conflict of interest, doesn't it?!?
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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:
I pretty much agree with everything you are saying! Except the last sentence! Last year we had a 16U Tier II win a National championship and a 14U finish 2nd from 2 different organizations. They must be doing something right. I also believe their are some Tier 2 teams in the top 25 from 16U this year! Not sure about 14U! Maybe the next 10 years will see a decline because of BB. But only time will tell! And what things need to change? Pretty sure BB is here to stay!
I agree with you to an extent. Arrows have a great reputation for tier 2 16 & 18u teams. I did hear the 14u Badgers team got dismantled after last season. I believe certain aspects of certain organizations have at least found lightning in a bottle, or have the personnel in place for certain age groups. I've seen recently a good bit of Pittsburgh born players starting to crack USHlL tier 1 rosters. Pittsburgh isn't a bad place for youth hockey. It could just be better, I think. Black Bear is here to stay! Wish I knew what changes would positively effect the area. I don't know if setting regional boundaries for AAA teams such as what the do in Dallas, Detroit, etc. would benefit us. Requiring that PPE only recruit prospects from this region, idk? People much smarter than me need to determine what those changes are that really push Western Pa forward. I see that consistently Reapers, Mission, Fury, Storm, always manage to be at the top. Again, not sure what they do in Chicago but it isn't Black Bear and their "paid professionals" pushing them to the top of the amateur rankings. I do not believe a Black Bear take over is the solution, thats all.
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12 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:
Sounds like there are still a whole lot of moving parts in the situation at PIA with Black Bear. I'm guessing that because Allegheny and South Pittsburgh have so many teams they didn't want to upset the Apple cart. They are getting enough revenue from ice rental with them. Unfortunately NHAHA is in a down cycle and they think they can do better. Big question is how are they going to attract kids. They will need to get some from all of the area rinks to play for them. I hope they have a marketing strategy to get kids to move. I haven't easily seen costs to play by organizations. How many parents determine where their kids will play based on costs? Or is it more location? Don't most A and B level players just play at the closest rinks? How many strong organizations can Western Pa support? What are the strongest organizations? Anybody care to put out a top ten? Who is the best PAHL org?
I don't think they need to "upset the apple cart" with those programs, All they need to do is pick off the low hanging fruit with organizations like NHAHA, Mon Valley, Youngstown; and a few others yet to come, I'm sure. And soon there won't be a variety of teams left in PAHL. Programs like Allegheny & South Pitt. will want to go to the AHF because that's where the competition will be.
Pittsburgh Ice Arena is in a lousy location. Like the Viper Stars model or not, it was the ability for families to have teams almost tailor made to their needs. Budgets were always a template, they were adjusted according to what each team collectively wanted. As for the Vipers, until BB took over, we tried extremely hard to make it the budget friendly program because the board always recognized the demographic, and location (What's the benefit of driving past multiple ice rinks on main highways to come to New Kensington). Black Bear made it impossible for us to offer ice competitive to what our closest rivals were doing.
I always looked at the Viper Stars as a growth model more than a letter designation. (I've seen AAA teams locally that would be singe A in PAHL) So all of the complaints that Viper Stars don't always field AA teams kind of falls deaf on me. It allowed kids that wanted to do more with hockey the ability to bridge the gap between Rec. hockey and the rigors of a full AAA independent schedule. Find where their path leads them.
A and B level players (and 95% of all players for that matter) just want to play with their friends. Where ever that may be, within reason.
All of BB's programs are based off of a cookie cutter platform, aside from the personnel (which hasn't impressed me), costs are what they are, and ice time is uniform throughout. You can quite literally go anywhere else in Pittsburgh and get what they are offering. Just have to find a coach worth following these days, I guess. Play for little Billy's dad for your entire career, until he cuts your kid or you determine your kid is better than Billy and you need to find another team that appreciates Jimmy's talents more.
I do believe that organizational success in the city is based a lot on location, but I believe the best organization is a matter of debate based on what birth year you ask. Non-profits should all be very similar in how they operate from a board perspective. What makes a great organization? Ability to fundraise, a renowned head of coaches, paid non parent coaches, prestige?
Not many programs are able to retain birth year teams for multiple seasons. Players constantly in the "transfer portal"! Every organization, it feels like, is offering AAA these days. I do not believe we will see "top 10" type teams coming out of the Pittsburgh area consistently unless things change.
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14 hours ago, RJUSHL said:
Interesting perspective @Deke715, thanks for sharing.
In the NAHA talks with Black Bear, was AHF discussed? Did they make it clear they had the intention of moving NAHA out of PAHL and into the AHF?Did you get any sense that Esmark was on the move to a new a new rink (Printscape) like some others have speculated?
Honestly, like AMR24 said, all of the discussion with BB was that nothing would change. They would somehow convince PAHL to change their by-laws, and would take full control of our operations. Make the charter "for-profit". Never really laid out any strategy/business plan/development plan for us. Just said, Because it's them, that it would happen.
The very second you walk into PIA you are faced with AHF propaganda littered everywhere. Banners, info on prompters, etc. You know instantly what their endgame is…
As of today, Esmark is still attached to NHAHA. I've been assured that they wish to stay that way. I do not believe there is any merit in Esmark moving to Printscape. My opinion, if they did have to align with a Black Bear controlled group, or South Pgh for instance, I believe they would still operate out of PIA. No inside information there. Again, just my opinion.
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6 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:
So a disgruntled parent that is mad at a "real" coach for cutting her crappy kid that made Esmark because she was on the board. ✔️✔️✔️
If you were just happy to volunteer your time and would have done it without the stipend then you could have chose to decline it but you accepted it with no problem.
It is your choice to take your kid wherever you/they want to play. If you don't like the Huskies because they made a deal before NHAHA then blame the board members for dragging their feet.
You are upset because your kid didn't make Esmark when they brought a new coach in then why not have them try out for another AAA team right down the road? Probably because you knew your kid shouldn't have been on that team and that stipend was to good to pass up.
Pretty sure you missed multiple points here. Frankly, I have no interest in engaging with your any further. I'm pretty sure you're the reason I have to look both ways while entering a roundabout! Take care!
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Going back to the Black Bear take over of PIA and NHAHA. Like another person on this post I represent the NHAHA board of directors.
Black bear made their announcement via social media days after the Christmas break and days before the start of the new year. Which anyone in hockey knows that it’s time to start planning for next year. This was a calculated move to disrupt the NHAHA board and families. At the last meeting we had with Scott Branovan and the Black Bear Co. we were working out a management agreement between NHAHA and Black Bear. We were completely blindsided when the hammer fell on social media.
Many can speculate who is at fault, but not many of you know the content of our conversations and the lack of decency that emulates from the Black Bear Sports group representatives.
I completely understand that Black Bear bought a broken ice rink and had to dump big money into keeping it operational. So now they need to completely control the ice hockey product so that they know what needs to be charged per family to protect their P&L and keep their investors happy.
There was a middle ground here though. There could have been a collective effort that would have benefited everyone, and we discussed that at length! After-all we still gave them upwards of a million dollars in ice this season. There is more than enough ice to go around at PIA. The Huskies are not going to turn into an instant success.
I’ve seen people on here talking about NHAHA’s declining membership, and there is some truth there but… We weeded through most of that and were turning the corner. We’ve seen significant growth in our grass-roots program this season.
FYI for the person that claims no Vipers player has made it to Esmark in the past decade, my child did! Then he was given CJ Stellebotte for a head coach, but that is a story for another time!
I hear the argument that Black Bear and their “paid professionals” will do a much better job than a Board composed of “parents & dads”. Nepotism is going to exist regardless of who is collecting the tuition checks. Black Bear coaches are still going to consist of dads making teams with kids that they want their kids playing with. At least with NHAHA we always tried to keep that process transparent. As a volunteer this past season, I’ve assisted in coaching on multiple teams, ran a portion of our program, set up Open House events, organizational picnics, put together marketing flyers, and managed overall organizational communications while accepting a stipend of $1200 for the season. I didn’t do all of this selfishly for my kids. If the stipend were gone, I still would have done it! I wanted our families to feel like they are part of something bigger. As the oldest running non-profit youth hockey organization in PA, there is a legacy to uphold! There is something to look back on one day and say you were proud to be involved with it. That's the standard you want the next generation to follow. And there are more people on the NHAHA board than not, that want those same things.
One black bear “professional” will take a salary 30x more than what my stipend was, and that cost will come back directly to the families. And consider, there is definitely more than one Black Bear Professional involved here …
I can tell you, in my experience, you can be considered a professional and still be bad at what you do. I worked pretty closely with several Black Bear “professionals”. One is stretched so thin between running the Little Pens Program, coaching Esmark, Coaching High School, doing Zamboni cuts, etc. that I really challenge his ability to grow the Huskies program. And, as for his boss, well… That guy has yet to commit to anything he said he would ever do for NHAHA.
You don’t have to look far on social media to find the negatives on Black Bear run programs. Knowing the people they have slated to run the Huskies, if NHAHA can not supply teams for my kids next season, then I believe anywhere is better than the Huskies.
Black Bears ultimate goal is to take control of youth hockey in the region. They are working to get PAHL’s bylaws changed to allow Black Bear controlled groups to compete until they have a strong enough grasp on the region then PAHL will cease to exist.
At the rate we are going, all of you with kids in youth hockey will be herded to a black bear facility to feed their money machine, sooner than later. Pay more, get less, and still get the same coaches as before!
Either step up now, or let Corporate America herd you like sheep! Rant Over!!!
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21 hours ago, Clonbur said:
You are not a NON-PROFIT organization. You are Not-for-profit, big difference. You also have paid employees and board members. It sounds like they sit back and let you do all the work. I am sure the Aviators will appreciate your hard work.
Officially lost any and all credibility! Buying what the Aviators are selling???
The Renegades "dad ball" equivalent
Keep huffing that paint thinner clonbur??????????
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You are pretty vocal for someone who chooses to do nothing to help. Just kinda appear the second things in NHAHA seem dark, damp, or dirty. In nature there are animals that dwell in that same type of enviorment.
Do better my friend!
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The good families will come back once they see the commitment is there! NHAHA WILL BE a family orientated program that prides itself on providing our families a highly competitive yet fun atmosphere.
As for the statement about unqualified coaches... maybe sometime clonbur would be willing to come by and show some of these "unqualified" coaches a thing or two. I'll get the ice, you just gotta show up.
Something tells me I don't need to be in a hurry to book that ice slot...
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True NHAHA has hit some set backs these past few seasons. Changing rink ownership wouldn't be easy on any program. Board member transition... Uncertainty hit the organization hard.
There are extremely passionate people leading the NHAHA program now. The people that stepped up immediately upon Mr. Posey departure only prove to me and others involved that they do not in fact have "1 foot on a banana peel"! They are turning the corner! Better days are coming!
There are extremely good/talented people stepping in to make NHAHA a successful organization. I won't name them directly, but keep trolling and I'm sure you will find out on your own soon enough. Look forward to proving all the sad/sorry naysayers wrong!
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What is happening at ALPHA ICE?
in Western Pennsylvania Youth Hockey
Posted
Not that I ever like to defend PAHL but, they did "try" to incorporate individual stats online this season. Parents ruined that! People from organizations inputting the scores began adding points and assists that did not reflect the same on the official scoresheet. I did the scoresheet for a 12u game and an Erie coach was yelling at me to add assists to the the scoresheet. It's a singe "A" game. I just ignored the clown! Just this January PAHL pulled live scoring away from team managers/parents.
There are a lot of parents out there chasing the AAA "pill". They just can't accept that good hockey can take place below that level. It's sad! I think there is a very strong tier 2 AA program in the Pittsburgh. Some are just not playing in PAHL anymore. 13u has some very good competition and they don't fear playing each other!