Sticktime56

Speaking of moving in on youth hockey. Any truth to the chatter that Esmark will be using RMU as a base for teams to practice etc...? This would be huge as it brings these teams closer and the barrier for most people considering esmark is the drive right now.

10 minutes ago, twoboys said:

If you play PAHL, you get 10 home games and 10 away games.  The away games are local.  So, that is essentially what you gain by playing PAHL.  The AAA teams each get there 10 home games but lose their 10 away local games. 

They also pay double the price just to say my son plays AAA hockey when in reality he's on a A team who thinks they are AAA.

On 9/17/2022 at 11:34 AM, aaaahockey said:

I think you are 100% right except I think 09 Preds have always been bad AAA.  SHAHA is new but Preds have been pretending for several years.  At the 09 level to my knowledge only Vengeance and Pens are legit.   I think Esmark, Preds have always been bad and we will see with SHAHA next week when the rankings come out but I assume they will all three be in the 100s.  

The SHAHA 09 team is a far better team than the preds 09 team. I have watched both teams play against my sons 09 team and was impressed with SHAHA, not so much preds. The coaching, skill,discipline and execution of the SHAHA was far better than preds . 

2 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

ppe 18 is alot of hype due to family at higher places. thats it. I would take shaha kid over ppe kid any day. shaha is just a hard ass working kid with rich parents but not alot of pull in places 

I would agree! The SHAHA kid has more talent hands down 

3 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I don't know enough about the sport to hover over them or critique their play! I pay monthly to live barn to use their service!  Got to  watch 11 penguins on the Ice yesterday just having fun! Just watched Baldwin and Mt Lebo go to the shootout.  I get my moneys worth and it was annoying when Alpha locked it.  Better to not have it than lock it!  Yeah it might be excessive and unnecessary but it's neat when they ask if I watched their goal in practice and I can say yes it was sweet!

I get it and not being critical of you. Glad you can enjoy your grandchildren but not all people use live barn for the joy of watching. 

32 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Can we enjoy the limited time we have with our grandkids?  I enjoy watching mine having fun!  They have never heard a negative word from me?  They ask if I watched them at practice and games!  Besides I would have no clue what to analyze in their practice! So a grandparent who can't get to the rink shouldn't watch them?  Tell me why again!  Not everyone berates and belittles their kids!  You must have a guilty conscience!

Watching games on live barn is understandable but watching practices seems excessive and unnecessary. I don't belittle any of my kids but also give them space to practice without me hovering over them. I have an 8 year old and a 15 years old and I can say I let practice be their time but I watch all games and support. 

On 8/31/2022 at 3:27 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

Maybe I'm a grandfather who likes to watch his grandkids having fun at practice!

Can we let children practice without having to watch their every move? Nothing is more absurd then adult men needing to sit in a cold rink analyzing their 8 years hockey practice or watching practice on live barn 

5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

As long as Parents are willing to pay for it there will be other AAA teams in SWPA.  Why did you just list Preds and SHAHA? What about Esmark, Vengenance and all the rest of the AAA teams showing up in SWPA these days.  It's all about what people are willing to pay for!  You can call yourself whatever you want!  Doesn't make your team AAA or even AA for that matter!  If you really want to blame someone blame My Hockey Rankings.  That's really the only place the A's matter for some type of competitive balance.

I specifically called out Preds and SHAHA because they continue to put out AAA teams at all BYs and NONE of them are AAA. Alteast vengeance and esmark at most BYs can compete at AAA levels. I think it's fair to say if you can't or won't play for PPE, the next best place for youth AAA hockey would be Vengeance or esmark. 

25 minutes ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

yes and no. like the press top line is better then the stars bottom line, there for making stars stronger and can hopefully bleed preds shaha dry of their faux aa teams 

Well said friend but the fauxAAA teams are a bigger issue than the AA. . If someone can finally end the preds and SHAHA faux AAA fiasco pgh hockey would see better days. 

11 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.  We've had a few dealings as a PPE customer.  It was good.  At times.  But not always.  

One kid tried out, made a black team.  Placement was fair.  Liked the program, and the practices.  Liked it all, except the power skating.

In our second season - again, liked it all.  Had a better coach, good manager, good practices, competitive games.  Had another good year and got great experience.

Unfortunately, during the season, had a disagreement with the organization about a policy.  Can't elaborate here, but the next season, our player was cut. 

Was our kid legitimately overtaken by better players?  Possibly.  

Watched that team the following year and their two new additions.  One was better.  One was not better.  But such is life.  It is a hard conversation to have with your child - but we did, and we moved on.  

Another kid tried out a few times, couldn't break in.  Felt most who made it were rightfully placed.  All except one - who couldn't keep up.  How this one made the team every year is a mystery. 

After a few rounds of tryouts, our kid observed that many of the incumbents don't even try at tryouts.  Eventually stopped trying out; felt it was a fix.  Again, we moved on.

So in the end, our time in the organization was good.  It is not easy to get in.  At times, felt like bystanders, maybe victims, of politics.  Is that unique to PPE?  Probably no.  We didn't agree with the way they did everything, but youth hockey is not run as a democracy.  

 

You make some valid and fair points. It often feels PPE is always under fire. Yes they do things wrong but they do alot right for pgh hockey. They give you exactly what you sign up for and pay for. Great hockey, great coaches and some of the best teams in the county. Politics play a part and not everything is fair but life isn't fair. There are other organizations out there charging similar prices and selling the AAA dream that do not come close to  offering teams that can even compete at the level, the training is mediocre at best and development is non existent. I don't need to mention these organizations but we all know who the faux AAA teams are locally. I cant even put all the blame on the organizations, the parents get some blame to,  they fall for it all to have the extra A for their kid who likey won't go anywhere beyond beer league. 

7 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Don't we always love to hate the perceived to be best programs?   Patriots, Yankees, PPE, Etc.  Maybe PPE has lot there way in what should be there mission.  But would we bash them if they couldn't win with all local talent?

Agree. PPE has like all organizations has its faults. But they also do alot of things very well. If we dissected every program with every youth hockey program no one would want their child to play anywhere is western PA. 

33 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

It’s wild how I am basically calling for the abolishment of the current PPE format,  and for some PPE individuals there to take their ‘talents’ back where they came from.  Still waiting for one of their employees,  or sympathizers to answer me on what their results are with moving kids on to higher levels of hockey…  Yet I am running propaganda and misinformation in their favor.

Just calling it like it is here in this conversation. That program is currently a joke,  and a bad one at that___ but they’re aren’t fucking pulling strings at USA hockey. Nor were they ever at the mid am camp to evaluate. 

Again, an 07 D from Esmark,  who was cut by PPE made the final camp.  
 

You should be grateful someone like myself, or Danner is around to ‘tell it like it is’.  You PAHL parents, Esmark parents and Vengeance parents get so wrapped up in blind rage toward PPE,  and how they’re seemingly always kaniving on behalf of their players__ when in reality,  you are giving these people entirely too much credit.   They aren’t the big scary machine you think they are,  those of us who have seen what it is,  behind the scenes know it as a house of cards. 
 

Propped up by the mindless parents who want PPE decals on the back of their vehicles so they can feel superior, never a thought about if their kid will actually be nurtured there.  And also by schizos outside PPE who hang out in local rinks with other parents and gossiping about the  PPE boogeyman.  You people play in to their hands. 

Well said. Those who do not want to hear the truth will hate on your for this post and those who know the facts will agree. 

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

Now here we go.  

Being on this thread for almost four years now, it took this long to finally get to the bottom of what is "ruining hockey" and leading to the demise of the sport in western PA.  It's not PPE Black teams, not PPE importing kids from out of state or forcing kids to attend NC and pay another $5K for the Excel program, it's not Esmark adding out of country players to teams while cutting locals just days before the roster deadline, and it's not PAHL teams leaving to play an independent schedule.  Nope, none of that is true.

Here it is, and I quote - "SHAHA and Preds declaring AAA at all / most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey" in western PA.  

Props to @Sticktime56 for providing this gem.

All of things you added to the list are accurate as well. I was simply mentioning that certain local organizations declare AAA and are faux and this Is a part of what's hurting pgh hockey in more ways than one. No one can deny that. I'm not suggesting it's the only problem. 

29 minutes ago, forbin said:

I never said one win. I'm talking about certain "faux" AAA teams beating multiple different "legitimate" AAA teams, multiple different times over the past few years.... 

I'm not sure what team or teams your referring to ? Sure every organization and BY is different. Vengeance 08s are an example of a legitimate AAA team but that's not to say the 06s are worthy of the AAA status at vengeance. The original point I was making is that places like SHAHA and preds declaring AAA at all/most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey not to mention extorting parents and selling some phony nonsense dream to make them think their kid is AAA. 

2 hours ago, forbin said:

So if a team declares AAA and plays against other "legitimate" AAA teams, and beats them, would you not consider them to be AAA? 

Just asking

I don't think 1 win against a legitimate AAA team could make any determination. What would make that determination would be AAA talent on any given team, as well as some consistent track record of beating legitimate AAA teams. Everyone knows 1 win is irrelevant, everyone can get lucky once during a season. Hell I watched a A team scrimmage a AAA and win due to bad reffs and a lucky day ha! 

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

In my opinion a top 50 or top 60 team could be considered AAA. Not sure why some people think you have to be top 30 or 40 to be considered AAA. This isn't the 90s or early 2000s anymore. The quality of hockey and depth of US players is significantly better than it has ever been. That includes Pittsburgh.

The old school guys that complain about everything keep dropping the number of what should be considered AAA in order to justify their opinions that Pittsburgh hockey sucks and this area can really only have one AAA per age group. Maybe that was the case when they were coming up or their kids were coming up, but it's just not the case anymore.

For most birth years, I think Pittsburgh can support three AAA teams. Some weaker years, maybe just two. Five+ is a bit absurd and does nothing but weaken PAHL and make hockey more expensive.

I agree, and the top organization outside of PPE, meaning esmark and vengeance can and have produced a few good real AAA teams. Organization likes preds and SHAHA going independent and claiming they are AAA is what is the real problem and why pgh hockey is becoming watered down and a joke. Preds apparently declared AAA for BY teams from 2013 to whol way up to 18U and none of these teams are AAA and Maybe a few players on those teams are AAA grade players. SHAHA is trying to follow suit and it's just bad. I guess If parents are ok traveling alot and going into debt to say their 13 year plays on a AAA team then they probably need a reality check. 

8 hours ago, Icebucket said:

I think you are overselling Esmark and vengeance. You can make a case that Esmark is borderline AAA, but certainly not vengeance.

In my experience vegennce can compete at AAA level depending on the birth year, but I would agree not all their BY teams are true AAA. 

2 hours ago, Stinger17 said:

At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here.

All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it.

With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind???

PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux.

The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink).

It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

You make some valid points. But truth is there are faux AAA teams all over pgh. No one is saying PPE is the only real AAA team, I would add esmark and probably vengeance to the list of real AAA. The problem is organizations like preds and SHAHA adding AAA at various birth years when they don't have the talent and rank well under 40. They play the money game and sell extra A chasing parents a load of shit. It's sad and entertaining all at one's. 

On 4/23/2022 at 8:22 AM, RJUSHL said:

Where do the Icemen play? Do they try and do the whole independent AAA thing?

They try but depending on the talent they may or may not declare AAA each season. 

There is a whole lot of A chasing in Pittsburgh hockey these days. Disappointing to see it all go to shit and local players going to Ohio to escape it all. Big money grab. Pens vengeance and esmark are the only real AAA organizations in the area. Everything else a money grab for desperate parents. 

Buddy of mines kid plays for Thunder. He mentioned last week the rink sold but he had no details. I am interested to see if BB bought as well.