Spear and Magic Helmet

So, in other words, you don't have enough teams and you're advertising to get more teams?

1 hour ago, Pa Hockey said:

UPDATE - Fields TAB in June 2022 for South Bend and Jamestown

yes well there is no tab. Are any teams committed?

what teams are committed?

2 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Notre Dame and Jamestown are getting commitments fast and furious in just three days 

Great! let us know when the field is finalized.

11 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Excuses excuses. I have seen it for years.  I am just saying if that kid can put up that type of production as a freshman in PIHL  he is probably as good or better than most of the AAA local kids.  I guess they only TRY in their AAA games????  Yes PIHL AAA isn't the same and if it is such a lower level then the AAA players they should really light the lamp there.  Maybe they should have tried.  Typically competitors always do.

I don't think people are saying the kid isn't good, they're saying that the hockey is not as good. I don't think that's really an unfair statement. Any level of AAA hockey vs any level of PIHL, the AAA is better. That doesn't mean there aren't excellent players in the PIHL, even as far down as, gasp, the B division. 

9 hours ago, Wes said:

Money is destroying NCAA football... via the NIL/and transfer portal sham.

Don't want to get too into this, but I disagree. The money has always been there, people just pretended it wasn't. That same money's in youth sports too, i.e. aau basketball. 

2 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

pa high school hockey does not translate to high level aaa hockey period. the high level kids who used to play were out there having fun but it is not the same game. know idea about whoever you are talking about but if he did great in pihl good for him i’m sure it was fun but it is meaningless for advancement. the true aaa players who used to play before not being allowed by ppe were simply trying not to get hurt - it wasn’t about points so you can’t judge by if so and so only had 2 points pg during a pihl game. 

I agree. Even at AAA, high school hockey is just not comparable to tier 1 hockey. Honestly, even though everyone here mocks the "faux AAA" teams, THAT hockey is still way better than high school hockey. The only HS hockey that got anyone anywhere from a Pittsburgh high school team was the Chicago Showcase, and that's been gone for a few years now.

5 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Morehouse is out and this is gonna be an objective of the Fenway Group ? 

I'll believe it when it happens.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

Who wants to pay to be on two teams and then have to decide which way they are going on the weekend?  Hard pass.  People who 'clear their schedule' wind up hamstringing their youth team in the process.  Seen it time and time again.  Ask any of the Central kids and parents who were on Foxes last year.  Bad for local hockey.  

Not to pile on too much, but it is also obviously a bit unfair when you consider some high schools can play 60 games and some barely get 20. I know a lot goes into it, but the fact that a high school team is even allowed that many games is kind of ridiculous. You wouldn't ever hear the end of it if a local HS football team flew to Florida every weekend in the spring to play games, yet it is very easy to imagine a high school hockey team doing something similar.

25 minutes ago, stickboy said:

You are discounting a lot of hockey families southeast of the city. Losing Rostraver will likely kill the two PIHL school programs that play out if there, as well as the PAHL program, and possible Cal. Any other rink is 45-60 minutes from this area and I doubt any of the remaining rinks would have room to accommodate these programs anyway. This area needs a rink more than any other in SWPA. I’m sure the tenants would like a better one but will settle for what they have.  Hope it can stay!

I don't think anyone is trying to minimize the effect that this will have on the Mon Valley. It would be a very sad day for Pittsburgh hockey if Rostraver closes its doors. Unfortunately, it just feels like the writing is on the wall. Yes, the other rinks are far from this rink, but, for example Jefferson Hills is slightly closer to the YMCA rink than Rostraver. Unless the community buys the rink, I feel like it's difficult to see this rink lasting more than another 3-4 years.

50 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I can not anyone really wanting to build a new rink in the Mon Valley - bit of a depressed area. 

I agree. In Rostraver's early days, the fact that it was the only game in town probably mattered more than the location. Even Lebo was built in the late 70s, Rostraver still had the advantage of relatively scarce ice. But now, YMCA (Bethel), Printscape (Southpointe), Lebo, Ice Castle, Center Ice, and Connellsville are all just close enough to be a problem. YMCA closed a sheet a few years ago and Connellsville is always in a state of disarray, so maybe it's just a matter of which domino falls first, but something is going to lose for sure.

I would think if you are going to open another rink anywhere in the area, it would not be in the Mon Valley. Maybe closer to the new developments in the North Hills would be the best choice, but I think just about anywhere but the Mon Valley would be a better choice.

I realize that this could be paywalled for some of you, but the gist of it is in the first paragraph:


"At 75, Jim Murphy would gladly retire — if he could only find a buyer for the business he has poured everything into for the last three decades."

and this:
 

"A “for sale” sign is posted at the entrance of Rostraver Ice Garden in Westmoreland County. Mr. Murphy said some potential buyers have expressed interest in the 14-acre property with 65,000-square-foot building, which he estimates is worth $3 million. But no serious offers have come through."

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/career-workplace/2022/04/25/business-owners-buy-sell-company-succession-retirement-finances-covid-19-pandemic/stories/202204240032

 

16 hours ago, forbin said:

Those are some deep thoughts….

 

ill see myself out

20 hours ago, PowerPlay said:

Do all western PA High School teams have tryouts and determine their varsity teams in the spring?   I seem to remember this being done in the fall (August) prior to the season.  I understand Amateur teams trying to secure players (customers' $$) for the following season, but why do High schools?  If you don't make your high school, it's not like you can go somewhere else??

 

Also, several years ago, someone posted a presentation about making PIHL/amateur split seasons like MN and Western NY and I can't find the post.  Wondered if that was ever presented to PIHL / Rinks and why it obviously wasn't considered.

I think a lot of teams do spring tryouts to determine their numbers. At the lower end, where programs are struggling, the spring tryout will determine how many teams they will have and how much ice they will buy.

The split season thing is hard for a number of reasons. I don't see it happening and personally I don't see any good reason to try to make it happen.

#1, there are a lot of high schools that don't have teams. What are those kids going to do? It's a LOT of players.

#2, in many places, the split season only further divides the high school/amateur split. There will be a lot of teams that are not bound by that agreement. In Western NY, the junior teams don't play split season, for example. I think some of the midget teams play full season now too. And good luck getting PPE and Esmark to adhere to a split season. I'd bet many of the affectionately named "faux AAA" teams also will not be bound by split season. Money issues aside, I don't see how any kid would pick playing for a terrible high school team over playing for PPE. Back when I was paying attention, around 2005-2015, many kids in Western NY were opting to play Jr hockey instead of fully-funded high school because Junior was "better". Like the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

#3, the PIHL season is way too long to accommodate split season teams. Tryouts in the spring, on ice starting in July or August, games starting in October and going through March or early April - none of this works for a "split" season. PIHL would have to be November to February, just like other winter sports. They just aren't interested in doing that.

5 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Personally, I love it for the younger ages.  Definitely teaches them how to possess the puck and make plays.  Any ding dong can ice the puck, dump the puck, or off the glass and out.  I DO believe it is silly to keep it in 16u and above especially AA and AAA.  If players haven't learned how to regroup and possess the puck by that age at those levels they never will.  Not having delayed offsides at those ages just slows the game down.  Again, it is absolutely great for 14u and below to help develop puck possession and play making but at least the automatic offsides has to go at the 16u AA and AAA Levels and above.

I agree with everything you said, actually.

I just don't get why it seems like every 2 years there is some other change made to off-sides. I feel like people are putting in into the same class as not allowing icing on the penalty kill, and I don't think it is. I think the penalty kill thing will be permanent. Delayed vs. Automatic off-sides seems like it will just go back and forth until the end of time.

I have never understood why USA Hockey keeps going back and forth on the automatic offsides. I honestly can't keep up with it. I think that rule is just on its own planet.

This has been rumored to be coming to the NHL for years. I imagine this is a test run. Interesting that high school is excluded

4 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

The most shocking thing about that chart to me is that birth month is less important than I expected.  Are these scholarship players only?  

It does seem to matter some. 154 from Jan to April, vs 77 from Sept to Dec, which is more than double. I don't know how evenly distributed births are in a normal population, but just eyeballing it, it does seem to be better to be born in the first third of the year than the last third.

Also, this must be all players (as opposed to being just scholarship players). There are about 25 players per team and about 60 D1 teams, so roughly 1500 total players. This is a total of 373 players, and it's just freshmen.

I would be interested in scholarship numbers too. At most, teams can grant 18 scholarships still, right? And a lot of them only have 9? I would guess that more scholarships go to the foreign players to entice them to come here.
 

I just clicked around. I was surprised this league is affiliated with the PAHL, but that is correct. I didn't click around very much, but it does look like Bishop McCort and Westmont are involved in a lot of games well in their favor.

https://www.lmhl.org/schedule/team_instance/6719328?subseason=773999
https://www.lmhl.org/schedule/team_instance/6719327?subseason=773999

 

The Lauren Mountain League is mainly co-op teams who are interested in less travel. The level of play is a little under the B division.

2 hours ago, mrfreeze said:

Iceman - i give them a 50% chance of fielding a team, but there is only a 10% chance of that.

9 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Seems like if a kid can't play USHL or NAHL, forget the junior hockey and go to college at a normal age, get an education, and play NCAA D3 or ACHA and have a great time. Once college is over they can be involved in hockey in other ways, but their competitive playing career is over at that point.

I think that NCAA D3 usually has kids with Jr experience. I think that was kind of a point Danner made about NCAA D3 being the ultimate "extra A" division. The hockey may not be much better, but the bragging is.

2 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

There is a reason why four of these kids are from 3A & two are from 2A. The hockey is a different level in those classes. teams are deeper in these classes. 

 

Sure, there are some good players scattered around 1A & B - but the competition is not the same. That kid that puts up 25 goals in B is not going to come close to that in 3A or 2A. It’s just the reality. 

Yes, that definitely true. I was thinking more of a kid who scores 50 or something along those lines. 25 goals in B is definitely not nearly as big of a deal. I think that also hurts the B and the A division too. The hockey is not that great. Most of the other discussions on this forum revolve on what teams are the best and people trying to get on the best teams. In high school, you either play or you don't. You really don't have any choice other than that. No "extra A" in high school. If the team is in a low division, you either accept the low level of play or you don't play. I think that is a factor too, some of the guys who could be good in B or A just don't play, which in turn makes the level lower than it could be.

15 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I have to respectfully disagree!  Maybe the overall depth in the B Division isn't as good as AAA, but the kids who dominate B are not "halfway decent travel hockey players" they are for the most part AAA and AA players just like the rest of the divisions. 

It is just like Quad A football. There are more D-1 players per school but you can still see D-1 players in Single A Football.

I agree with this. There aren't many, but there are good players in the open division. I think you can make the same argument about the A division as well. The bottom isn't great, but the top is good and there are some pretty good players at that level as well.

43 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

and what about D2 hockey? i know there are very few teams so what is the point of being D2 over D3? do they only play each other?

https://www.ncsasports.org/mens-hockey/colleges

There aren't many NCAA D2 programs and there is no D2 nationals. I assume those schools stay in D2 for some other reason. Around the turn of the century, the better D2 & D3 programs, like Mercyhurst and RIT, went to D1. I'm not sure about the motivation though. IT seems like we are pretty consistently going to have around 50-60 NCAA D1 teams and about that many in D2/D3, with the vast majority being D3. The gap between D1 and D3 is huge. There are NCAA D1 guys who play in the NHL after their season is over. Some NCAA D3 guys play in the ECHL for a while.

As for the comment about playing Tier 3 Jr only to end up in the ACHA ranks...I kind of doubt that was the plan. I am sure in most cases, kids thought they'd give Jr a shot and see what happens. Some of them may have had realistic expectations, and some may not. The one thing that is true is that once you're 22, you're too old to play Jr. If you think it could go anywhere at all, you can't go back when you're 25 and play Jr. For most of them, even if they play Tier 1 junior or junior in Canada, there isn't a spot for them in the NCAA and they have to do something because they've reached the end of the junior road. That might mean anything - selling cars, working in a factory, or playing hockey at an ACHA school. All of the questions about whether they should have spend the money chasing the dream, well, it's their money, they can do what they want with it.

Also depending on the area...a lot of kids are 19 when they graduate from high school these days, especially boys. I have watched them change Midget ages several times to account for kids starting kindergarten later and later. I believe in the 80s, midget was 16 and 17, and if you were 18, you were too old. In the 90s, they changed the ages several times and eventually we landed on the current setup, where midget is 4 years (technically it is 16U and 18U). So the comments about getting started with your life and the 19-20-21 year old freshmen, well, some of them are that old anyhow due to other, non-hockey reasons.