oneanddone

If PAHL wants to call their championships Penguin Cups, then they would need to take that up with the Penguins organization.  The issue is not with what they are called  - it is with being considered basically a separate entity where the players/teams are "less than" the others.

I think you missed the point of this not being about PIHL and more about coverage and including all Varsity hockey players in consideration for the accolades that are given.  That is why this exchange was directed at Keith Barnes and not PIHL.

On 3/27/2024 at 10:48 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

While that is a wonderful list it is very sad that Keith Barnes does not recognize the co-op players! 

Ryan Saginaw and Gio Valentine were as good if not better than the Stellar 6!

It's not their fault that they play for teams that need to combine schools to form a team.  I would say that what they accomplished in some ways was tougher than what the Stellar 6 accomplished!  

Anyone ever ask Barnes why he doesn't even consider D-2!

Yes - this was the response from Keith Barnes several weeks ago when asked about the Penguin Cup coverage and then my response  - then crickets

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

If a school has enough kids to field a team without added players they should play pure. If they have 12 skaters and a goalie they should be pure. That is what is fair to all the other schools. And there are plenty of teams that have done this. Why can’t Canevin? 

FYI…. The goalies for BC since they became a co-op have not been Canevin students….. so there’s that

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I don’t care what the rule says. If a school can field a team with less than a full roster they should do it. Because that is what some is what other teams do all the time. 

Listed what? I didn’t see a list of where the kids attend school on this thread or anywhere else for that matter. 

So for your reference, here are the rules from PIHL

4) There shall be a “no-cut” policy for all co-op teams. If a report is
received and verified of any co-op program cutting or
discouraging players from any of their co-op schools, this shall
be subject to review and discipline by the Executive Committee.
5) An association meeting the minimum requirement of 12 eligible
players from their school/school district shall not be permitted
to field a co-op team with any other association unless
extenuating circumstances, showing a hardship, etc., are
approved by the Executive Committee.
a) If an association exceeds twelve (12) players from any one
school within the co-op, after being approved as a co-
op team, there shall be no discipline until they exceed
fourteen (14) players from one school. Upon reaching
fifteen (15) players from one school, that co-op team
shall be required to declare a pure team for the next
season if enough returning players are grade eligible.

I know you don’t like the rules, but at no time in the years that BC has been in D2 have they had more than the number of players from Canevin outlined in the rules.  If they had, they would have become a pure team.

If you  would like specific information on where kids go to school feel free to contact the registrar from BC or the school’s Athletic Directors.
With the internet these days, it would also be pretty easy to find out where kids go to school.
 

22 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Haven’t beaten my team. I am actually a fan of Bishop Canevin as I am a graduate of the school and played there myself. Maybe this year’s team has  only 8 kids on the team that attend Canevin. But in the last few years there have been more than enough kids to field a pure team. I know this because I attended games to support my old team and talked to kids a number of times that were not playing, and they attended Canevin. I am talking 5 or 6 kids a game. There have been plenty of schools that play with less than a full team of skaters in the pure divisions. In fact, there have been teams in AA that have played without a full roster. (Which is another failure by PIHL). You can be a fan of a team or school and still disagree with how they make up their team. Good luck to Canevin the rest of the way! 

Perhaps you need to look at the rules for determining a D2 (co-op) team  - they are very clear on how this is decided.  It is not about having a "full" roster.

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Nobody in Class A from PIHL has shot at States in my opinion. 

You keep mentioning teams that have competitive and full JV teams should be in 2A. There are teams that have been barely able to field a JV team that have been forced to play AA and it has showed that they didn’t belong there. The competitive balance formula needs to take that as a more serious reason for not moving teams up. As well as taking into consideration how many seniors a team loses. North Hills is a perfect example of that this year. 
 

Bishop Canevin should have been removed from the open class years ago. They have had enough kids that attended the school to field teams without the Co-op players. They have played many many games with kids that actually attend the school watch from the stands while the co-op players played in every game. They manipulate the system so they can have their outstanding co-op players play all the while they could field a team without them. It is a shame that PIHL has let this happen. But I guess no one should be surprised by their lack of action as they have been manipulated before. When Moon won the open Class championship they had ONE player that didn’t attend Moon. It was an excuse not to play AAA that year. Which was also a ridiculous ask of Moon after losing so many seniors the previous year. 

 

FYI - 9 out of 23 players are BC kids, 8 are from Seton and 6 are from KO so not sure where your information is from.  This is not enough to make a "pure" team for any of these schools and thus why the co-op continues to exist.  

Bishop Canevin represented PIHL D-2 very well at USA Hockey High School Nationals.  Made it to the semis and lost against PREP team from Illinois who won the championship.

3 players in the top 15 

1 hour ago, Seejay784 said:

So now with the Finals set, are we going to start the annual complaint that UPMC Lemieux is too small to host the finals?

So not really about the size of the venue, but having back to back championship games in a rink that basically has 1 way in and 1 way out is a nightmare.  The first 1,000 people are trying to leave the early game - or if you are the winner, you are hanging around for pics, etc. and the other 1,000 people are trying to get in to watch the next game and it's all happening through basically 1 entrance/exit with a 10/15 minute window  - it's a nightmare and the same problem exists at RMU for the semi's.  Tensions were running a little high in the stands last night at the change of games and it is probably a recipe for disaster at some point.

Force at more than 12 from the same school, but can go up to 14 depending on certain situations - again, ambiguity!

From PIHL playing rules:

5) An association meeting the minimum requirement of 12 eligible players from their school/school district shall not be permitted to field a co-op team with any other association unless 16 extenuating circumstances, showing a hardship, etc., are approved by the Executive Committee. a) If an association exceeds twelve (12) playersfrom any one school within the co-op, after being approved as a coop team, there shall be no discipline until they exceed fourteen (14) players from one school. Upon reaching fifteen (15) players from one school, that co-op team shall be required to declare a pure team for the next season if enough returning players are grade eligible.

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Do you know how many kids it takes to have a pure team?  Just curious!

12 or more - but sometimes there can be ambiguity there with PIHL  - go figure

On 1/20/2023 at 9:32 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Pretty sure Burrell has only lost to Canevin x2, Deer Lakes x2 and Morgantown in OT with wins over Neshannock & Connellsville.

That side of B is really lopsided.

Yes, and the team/player stats are also lopsided due to the fact that within the groups each team plays all of the teams 2 times and plays  2 of the teams 3 times, and only plays the teams on the other side 1 time during the season.   

OLSH, Seton LaSalle and Keystone Oaks

Bishop Canevin has been a Co-op (B Division) for the previous 2 seasons as well.

Announcement coming at 10 a.m. today and this is what my representative had to say:

Tomorrow there will be announcement regarding increased capacity for indoor and outdoor sports. There has been a lot of compromise on the issue but I’m sure that hockey players/parents will be satisfied. This issue has been time consuming but a very worthwhile result in my opinion. The kids are able to play and parents will be there as they should be