Rico

The 08 elite dad above seems to be very triggered. 

Nobody is saying that kids can’t have dreams. Most of us are not saying that these kids won’t have illustrious hockey careers beyond amateur hockey. What we are saying is that mite/squirt/peewee hockey is hardly comparable to hockey past those ages and people should be cognizant of that before getting into the ridiculous discussions about who is the best at those ages, what team is the best etc. Mostly everyone’s point is to enjoy it, support your kids and get the most out of it. 

Do you know what it looks like when people argue over squirt hockey? To people who either have been through it, played the sport etc? 

It looks like a bunch of housewives arguing over T-ball and who has the best team, who’s kid is a dinger. 

Sorry we touched a nerve. The market is static? Lol What are you even trying to say? The fact of the matter is you had a jump in participation’s numbers within the Crosby era, and with that came a bunch of good atheletes picking up a stick, but with know nothing parents like yourself basing your version of reality on what you watch at PPG paints. 

15 hours ago, Saucey said:

I get annoyed with the 'Squirt' talk because parents who are this into their kids' games before the child is done with Santa are on the road to killing the sport for their kids. I don't see parents of older kids doing this, I don't remember seeing this level of obsession when my kids were younger and the advice I see posted here from those who have been around is, sit back, enjoy the ride, let the kids enjoy it. The only people who should be dissecting any youth game the way this post was doing it is a coach, and God bless if they have the time.

I have witnessed an inordinate amount of crazy coming from the stands of Squirt games this season, no matter who is playing. Really horrible behavior. Happens at every level, but seems most egregious with the newbies. I am glad you are into it, hockey is so much fun, but be careful you don't suck the fun right out for your kid or you will see your kid exit quick. This behavior isn't healthy for the kids or the sport.

Talk about the sport all you want, but don't obsess. Don't dissect one game like it was an NHL game because you want your kids' team to be the best in the area. Why does that matter? At nine and ten, you have a lot of hockey ahead of you, assuming your kid continues to want to play.

I have seen first hand what happens to the kids of the parents who treat their games like they are going on a talk radio show. Passion dies, and the child moves on. 

 People are just going to have to live through it to understand it and even then they probably won’t. The excuses will start, Tim got hurt, Tim got a raw deal, Tim should of, could of, would of.

As far as it being crazier than it ever was? It is. This is what happens when a market explodes, participation sky rockets but the extent of what these kids parents know about hockey is what they see on TV. Not many seem to u sweat and the finite details that go into having long term success in this sport, they just see goals or dangles and think jr is on the road to the glory land. 

19 hours ago, twoboys said:

I don't think any defensemen on the PPE squirt or peewee teams are underdeveloped at skating backwards.

 

I can give you positioning but not skating. 

Kids that age, everywhere, are not developed at the numerous transition methods it takes to keep up with someone skating forward. 

They don’t even have the muscular strength, hip flex, or experience to put it all together yet.

And if we’re being honest, quite a few of their straight backward c cuts aren’t even being performed right or to the full extent. 

My whole point though - is that eventually these Defensmen are going to figure it all out and come into their own. They will be coached on details. It won’t be a matter of skating fast and dangling around them like it was in squirts and peewees. 

I was using this to support my point that squirt and peewee hockey is not a real indicator of what a player is going to be when crap gets real. So to sit here and debate about what squirt or peewee kid is the “best”, who scored the most goals, made the most saves, who’s team is number one if they added 4-5 kids, who’s playing on what team and where, who’s getting private lessons with Brent Gretzky is all #*!&!# irrelevant until a kid can perform at a high level once the real game of hockey starts (at bantam). 

Once again, this doesn’t mean that the kids and parents shouldn’t have fun and be proud of accomplishments at the younger ages. There’s a lot of accolades to have - but to people who know hockey - the second you start to get pretentious (all the things mentioned above) - the people who see the big picture do a hard eye roll. 

There’s a big shift between a squirt or peewee defensemen who is underdeveloped at skating backwards, who puck watches, is probably all over the place in terms of position...

... and a 14 year old Defesemen who is going to stay with the puck carrier every step of the way, play the body, and read plays. 

I won’t even talk about the differences in the Goalies. 

I can’t say it enough, the game that squirts and peewees are playing is not the game they will be playing down the road. Stop getting caught up in who the “best” is, who would be the top team, who scored the most goals, who got invited to what at this age.... That doesn’t mean that the kids and parents shouldn’t enjoy themselves. That’s what it’s all about... but that’s really all you can take from it right now.

And with this wisdom shared. I’m done. Good luck to everyone on their season and have fun.

Scouts recruiting kids at the brick tournament? Send me a list of some who 8 year olds who committed to whatever D1 schools were scouting.

Or is the myth that “scouts” are around good for business, for tournament directors. 

I’m assuming the “scouts” you are talking about are really just people who are involved with Spring teams, looking to add kids to their list of teams. Another facet of youth hockey that preys on parents insecuritie$. 

Dont get me wrong, spring hockey can be fun and enjoyable for everyone but it’s a business like everything else. 

There are no scouts, atleast “scouts” who are doing anything meaningful to your kids hockey career, at squirt games. Said scouts do not care to watch kids try to skate as fast they can to the other net, unabashed, and shoot for one of the top corners. 

Kids these ages are playing breakaway hockey. Skate fast, dangle, shoot. It’s a great time for the kids and they should enjoy it. 

BUT

You as a parent, scouts, coaches, don’t know what kind of player a player is going to be until the physical element of the game is present. 

Also Questions, the 07’s finished 4th I believe in their squirt minor year... the 06’s were 6-7 in theirs.

So yes, a combined team may have done better than 7th in the 08’s minor year but once all of the major metro areas start to consolidate teams starting in squirt major, it’s a different story. 

In regards to there being so much talent around western PA... I have no clue. 

There’s a big difference between playing against another PAHL team and being able to skate against the Toronto Marlies. 

The pay to play stuff is absolute non-sense that bitter people pedal on message boards. It also echos in the lobbies of every PAHL rink. I’m going to be very vague, but there are more than a few kids at PPE who’s parents are well off, work for the organization, etc who aren’t automatically cast into any specific team. Please believe that this non-sense is not representative of what actually goes on in Cranberry. 

1 hour ago, Questions21 said:

The 08's finished what 7th last year with only part of the best players. If ALL of the top 08's from the PPE, Vengeance and maybe 1 or 2 not in those organizations got together they would be the best team in the country.  Hands down???. If the 07's had all of the best 07's in western PA they would be top 3 easily. 

The Vengeance lose out a bit because they are so open with their teams and not forcing kids to make them #1 priority. The PPE lose out because at almost every birth year there are kids on Elite that should be on Black or kids on Black that shouldn't be on Black or Elite. But they are because of who they are or who their parents are. 

There are plenty of great players at most of the birth years in western PA. It's just trying to get them all together that is the problem. "If" there was an organization that could guarantee an unbiased atmosphere and could not be bought by parents. Pittsburgh could be a nuce hub for hockey, especially for how small it is compared to other hockey cities. 

The 08 thing is hyperbole and tired. Again, there are birthyears at the PPE who are significantly more deep than the 08’ birthyear, have all of the “top” players on them and they aren’t the number one team, not even top 3. 

Would they improve, yes. Does it really matter at the squirt level, no. Is anyone scouting squirts or peewees, no. Do any scouts give a shit what squirt teams are number one ??????? in the country, no. Does anything significant, outside of knowing what competition to schedule for the next year, come out of squirt and peewee hockey rankings, no. Do parents eat this shit up and think the chances of their kid doing anything significant in the sport rely on where their squirt team stands, yes. Should organizations offer mental health services to parents, yes. 

3 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Rico, Mr. professional evaluator that you are, why didn't you mention the the ties and the loss that occurred? Did they not actually happen? Were they a figment of someone's imagination? I don't know if they're a mess, but the word inconsistent certainly applies.

Does it matter if they tied or lost? I wasn’t there, so I didn’t even know about the other games. Just heard they beat the number one team in the country and that’s significant regardless of whether or not the number two or three teams beat them (number one) also. 

You sound jealous. 

There are teams at the PPE who have deeper birth years then the 08’s, and all are playing on the same team - none of them are considered the best team in the country or near it really. Don’t get caught up looking at things on paper. 

Any way.....

Can I ask the people questioning “development” what they mean exactly? 

There’s a lot of accusations about how programs run being tossed around with little to no explanation. 

Just “Program A” doesn’t develop players... “Program A” doesn’t do this.

What are your definitions of “developing” a player? 

12 hours ago, Moj said:

We would be the best team in the country

Don’t know about all that... 

Certainly a higher ranked team - but the top teams are already stacked. 

11 hours ago, Moj said:

We would be the best team in the country

Don’t know about all that... 

Certainly a higher ranked team - but the top teams are already stacked. 

32 minutes ago, Moj said:

We would be the best team in the country

Don’t know about all that... 

Certainly a higher ranked team - but the top teams are already stacked. 

Got a text that the meh, mess, 07 Elite team with the 08 goalie being discussed beat the number one team (not sure who the team is) in the country 3-1 this weekend. 

Someone must have told them about Aj’s professional assessment of them. Lol.

9 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

You sign an agreement that states and I'm paraphrasing, you will do nothing that interferes with PPE hockey. I've seen it. I've signed it.

Username checks out. 

6 minutes ago, Whoknew said:

Just curious...why do people assume kids don't play multiple sports if they play for PPE?

I guess you can but that’s going to be a daunting task depending on the sport. You have 3 night a week practices and gone 2 weekends a month. What other winter sport can you commit to while playing AAA hockey? 

People who evaluate players for a living will tell you that they don’t give a single flying fuck about any kid in squirts or peewee’s.

Being the best, one of the best, good, whatever always comes with * in squirts and peewee’s. Because it’s not real hockey. It’s breakaway hockey. 

6 hours ago, Questions21 said:

The only thing that held the 07 player back was his temper on the ice, but best yes and if it is not a big deal then why argue the point. 

The 08 goalie playing up was in the right place at the right time, definitely is 3rd or 4th in the 08 birth year. There is nothing wrong with 3rd or 4th best in the birth year, but there is definitely 1 or 2 that the 07's should/could be using. And yes he made the Brick team and just like at every tryout he was the worst goalie and he proved that by being the worst goalie at the Brick tournament. Money buys your kid happiness but doesn't make him look good. 

On the having a couple teams ranked, that is awesome for how small Pittsburgh is. But if some parents put their differences aside, these teams could be really good and could even possibly have 1 or 2 in the top 10 and even 1 near the top. 

 

The only reason the 08's are a big deal is because they will not play the other team and even went as far to put them in a different division last season for their host tournament so they could avoid them. 

 

If it really did not matter until Bantom there would not be a ranking system at the 10u and 12u age. 

Well you seemed to be painting a picture that one kid leaving was responsible for a team being “meh”. I was simply pointing out that he was marginally better than the other top kids on that team until others caught up. He is a good player and a good kid. Let’s not be pretentious though, tempers holding kids back. No, not quite. 

I was pointing out that it’s irrelevant to talk about who the best is, because at this age there’s usually small differences between your “top” players and whoever is the best is largely based on their parents fantasies about what they think makes a kid “the best”. 

The 08 “issue” is clear as day. You have one group of kids who are dedicated to hockey and you have another group of kids are are multi-sport athletes and/or don’t want all that’s involved with PPE. I don’t really think there’s “differences” between parents that are separating this group as much as differences in philosophy. 

You must be an 08 vengeance parent because your info, player evaluation is wayyyy off. 

Also the 08’s are 14th out of a couple hundred teams so who cares if there’s another Pittsburgh team around them. Good for both programs. I just looked at the 07’s rankings and they are 19th. Once again I’m not sure how being ranked 19th out of a hundred teams is meh. 

And why is anyone even talking about the 09’s? Those kids have just been thrust in to world of real AAA hockey and we’re judging them? We shouldn’t be judging anyone or anything under Bantam to be honest. 

23 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

So we've put two months plus of the season behind us so the rankings are theoretically starting to find their level. With all of the hoopla about the PPE including best players, best coaching, excel academy and blah, blah, blah why aren't these teams ranked higher across the board? U18 is behind Esmark. U16 is the team built for the Golden child and Coached by the Golden Coach yet can't break the top 10. 15's have crept into top 10 so that's a plus. 14's brought in half of a new team from all over the world and are below .500. 05's just cracked the top 20. 06 Quebec Team looks solid. 07's are a mess. 08's are below another local team and 09's are meaningless. Then you look at the AA teams and whoah, what the hell are people spending all the money for? I guess just the ability to brag to their friends.

Check the rankings of other similar sized cities with similar programs and there you have it. Pittsburgh does not have the population to field teams similar to the competition they face, but they’re in the competition none the less. 

My hockey rankings aren’t indicative of a players developing. Most at PPE would tell you that they aren’t really expecting to be a top ranked team given the circumstances.

21 hours ago, Questions21 said:

The 07 Elite is meh, they lost their best player from last year when they fired the coach (his son). They can't find a good 07 goalie and the #1 is an 08 who may be the 3rd or 4th best in the 08 birth year. The 07 Black is just ?. The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because the teams they scheduled outside the top 100 canceled on them and they have 3 teams scheduled that their black team has played and either beat, tied or kept close in a loss. And the top 08 teams don't want anything to do with the 08 Elite because they don't want to waste their time so they are in a limbo unless they go to a tournament. Plus the 08 Elite had a decent turnover from last season as they lost a goalie, a player from the top line (injury) and 2 defenseman. The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. The 09 Elite is small and has no goaltending, but they are at least trying to put themselves out there to play games by traveling as much as possible since home ice is so hard to come by. The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there. 

To also say about the Vengeance,  if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool. 

You’re misinformed. 

The 07 you’re speaking of was marginally better than others in their squirt minor year. Mainly due to the fact that he had been playing on the 06 black team prior and had a years worth of PPE/squirt hockey prior to the other 07’s showing up. Very nice player, but by second year squirts he was not the best on the team. I mean who really cares who the best player is, but facts are facts. There was no void left when he moved on from the team as another kid from out of town filled in. The 07’s being meh has zero to do with that situation.

The 08 goalie you’re talking about made the Brick team last year. He’s amongst the best that birthyear has to offer. He plays up, as mentioned and he succeeds at playing up.