Theroadtobeerleague
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Posts posted by Theroadtobeerleague
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18 minutes ago, Danner27 said:
I understand all that. Again it’s just a second Pahl championship tournament in the end with the occasional local indie team. Looking at midget - 18s it’s Pahl with the indie icemen, 16s are just all Pahl teams.
That’s simply not true. Western PA is a part of the Mid Am and includes all teams in this side of the state including teams that don’t play in PAHL such as Mid State.
and while PAHL ends with the season-end tournament, the winner of “states” goes on to compete in Nationals.PAHL is just a local hockey league like any other and Tier 2 is pretty much open to any teams that apply. The 2006 Allegheny team played in this years U14 division of “states”
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46 minutes ago, Danner27 said:
Not to come of like a d!ck, tier 2 It’s not a district championship. For some reason they are calling it “states” now and it’s not. It’s just Pittsburgh teams, just about everyone that applies makes it. Not to mention there is something like 3-4 different tier 2 national champions. It’s really just a another Pahl championship the local independent team (Icemen) partake in.
The Viper Stars are also independent. The mid am is divided up so that the part of the mid am that is western PA gets its own qualifier, as do WV, Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana. That’s why it’s called “States”
Tier 2 Nationals will be in three groups: 1A, 2A, and 3A. The Mid Am winner will be placed in 3A, the toughest. With their recent wins, SCIR will be a top 20 team and have a chance to make a good showing, as they’ve already played some of the top AA teams and held their own. Important to note that Mt Lebo and the Foxes both had a win vs them this season, as did Westmoreland. These are 14 and 15 year old who one moment look like they have it all figured out and the next moment are totally clueless. Hockey is played on a slippery surface with a small round puck, so bounces matter and it’s pretty unpredictable. Just look at the Pens game today as an example. The better team doesn’t win every time.
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On 3/1/2020 at 3:51 PM, Theroadtobeerleague said:
Add to the mix the “SHAHA invite-only 2005 AAA Pens Elite Black need somewhere to get that extra A” forming for 15U.
so at the 2005 BY, a region that has:
the lowest-ranked Pen Elite Gold team of any team in the organization. They were 1-15-3 vs USA teams ranked in the top 15
lowest ranked Pens Elite Black team of any Black team in the organization. Played only 17 games vs teams ranked ahead of them and went 6-9-2 Played 1 game vs teams in top 35. Loaded schedule with 8 games vs AA teams (2-2-4) and AAA teams ranked in very bottom
no AA team ranked higher than 23 (whatever PA team makes it to Nationals will NOT advance out of pool play, but will get a lovely weekend in scenic Kalamazoo!)
AAA Preds team that should have always stayed AA and would have had a chance to win Nationals
two Independent teams (Icemen and Vipers) that should be playing PAHL
...is now going to try to have 4, 5, and maybe even 6 2005 AAA teams!
if there was just Pens Elite U15 and no other AAA options, western PA (PAHL) would have a competitive, no-need-to-travel all over the country, AA U15 Division that would be a great fit for around 100 hockey players. This is probably true of other BYs as well.
Remember, the Tier 1 designation means something only at the end of the season and it’s for the Mid Am playdowns, where 1 team will advance to Nationals, unless there is a at-large (which will never happen from Mid Am)
No, and I mean absolutely no, scouts are going to watch any games between “AAA” teams ranked outside of the top 20. They don’t even attend the games or events where those teams play.
That extra A is literally for the purpose of the parent being able to say to their friends, co-workers, and other hockey parents at local rinks: “my kid plays triple A hockey”, or years later, “my kid PLAYED triple A hockey”. Think of that in the grand scheme of life.
Pens Elite 4, Pens Elite Black 1
Preds 1, Pens Elite Black 0
Pens Elite 12, Preds 0
And a quick look at the Tier 2 shows close games between the top 5teams (vipers, foxes, icemen, mt Lebo, N Pitt).
Reminder that Pens Elite Gold won 1 game out of 19 vs top 15 teams.
this is further evidence that western PA has enough kids at this birth year for a maximum of 2 high level AAA teams. But with tryouts coming up there will be at least 5, maybe even 6 or 7, who call themselves AAA.
Parents: face the reality that not every star player in Mites ends up as a 15 year old high level player -
Not 8% of kids, 8% of the TOP kids
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3 hours ago, Danner27 said:
The answer - nobody outside of the top 1% at ppe will have any kid of hockey career after high school. So have fun, hope your kid has fun and try not to break the bank.
1% is low. That’s 1 out of every 100 kids. That would equate to only 1 kid from Mid Am, and it’s more like 5-10 kids from each birth year end up with at least some kind of hockey future. If “future” is defined by a spot on in the NHL, then yes, 1%. But if that means college hockey and college at least partly paid for, and higher level juniors where they can keep the dream alive, it’s more like 8%, or about 2 kids per team. Don’t forget about the many area girls who get college paid for via hockey.
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1 hour ago, RegDunlop7 said:
Lol are you serious?
BV Dawgs are no longer a thing
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A simple google search:
-yes, Icemen plan on having AAA 2005
-yes, Esmark plan on having AAA 2005
Mt Lebo has it listed simply as 2005BY. Doesn’t specify as AA or AAA meaning they are probably hoping/open to make it AAA. Their 2004 lists registration for AAA and AA.
- yes, Preds list 2005 AAA tryouts.
so indeed Pittsburgh area must have an abundance of AAA kids in that birth year. Even though as I have already pointed out, that BY isn’t exactly showing up in the Tier 1 or Tier 2 rankings very strongly.
by the way, most of these kids will be playing solely high school hockey by the time they are seniors.
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11 minutes ago, hipcheck66 said:
I’ll only comment on the 15U SHAHA AAA team, as my son was asked about being interested. The ice is there, and was described as 2 weekday practices, 1 weekday skills session, off ice in the YMCA gym, and weekly video sessions. 2-3 non parent coaches as well. As for whether that will count as a “true” AAA program is up to the judgers here on the board.
Not sure about Esmark at 05 because I don’t believe they have a team??
It won’t be “true” AAA unless ALL of the 2005s who don’t make Pens Elite U15 or U16 decide to play there. Again, the best kids from that birth year who don’t play Pens Elite are all spread out across the current other 2005BY teams. They won’t all go to the same non-Pens Elite team, because of geography and parents who think more of their kid than they should. Take the best 6 kids from Preds 05, the top 4 from PPE Black, and the best 1 or 2 from each of the AA 2005 BY teams, and THAT is an AAA team. But that won’t happen, so instead the SHAHA team will be one of 4-5 teams with 4-6 true AAA players and the rest not so much. Facts.
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6 hours ago, Danner27 said:
I can’t agree, both of my kids played tier1 for years, i have watched them play against teams in the top 10 all the way down to 100. Personally I feel teams ranked in the top half are legit tier 1 teams. the top 10 teams are a different animal. Going by your logic, only the top 10 teams are real tier 1 teams. go look at ppe & esmark’s midget teams schedule’s on my hockey rankings, Some of the scores will surprise you. Esmark’s 16s are ranked 44 but they beat the number 1 team and lost 4-3 to the number 7 team. Your logic says they are not a real tier 1 team but the scores say otherwise. In my opinion there isn’t much different from teams 20-60 in tier 1. The games can go either way, the data backs this up. 70 and beyond, sure they are much weaker and the argument can be made they are tier 2 teams. Let’s look at Pahl, every year one aa team is at the top with 2-3 at the very bottom. Should aa just be 4 teams every year ? At that point do you say the 4th place team is a major ? Where does it stop ? Western pa can support 3 competitive midget tier 1 teams. The vengeance don’t have midget again this year and the icemen just need to turn into tier 2. I’m well aware the ranting number vs ranking. Rating number is part of the reason team 20 doesn’t want to play team 60 They have to beat them by 3 goals to get even game, it doesn’t happen that easy.
Good points. I am saying that by the time they reach U15, there aren’t many kids who have a true future in hockey who play on the teams outside of the top teams. And in western PA, there could be 2-3 teams in the top 30 if there were 2-3 legit options, rather than 6-8 money grabs.
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26 minutes ago, Danner27 said:
I am not saying the 3rd legit local team would be some power house, I’m just saying with their location they could field real tier 1 at 15,16 & 18. We do have enough good midget players in the area for this in my opinion, I’ve seen it with both my sons BY’s, hockey continues to grow in the area and around the country. As it currently stands the predators just field the teams Regardless for the cash. If they felt they did not have enough Capable players to be able to complete in tier 1 (such as the 15s this year) they just need to cancel that particular BY team and try again the following year. I think what gives them a bad rap, they just field and fill regardless if the players are capable. Their other issue is coaching. As for two teams that’s not true, esmark as much as I dislike the area and some things about the program they have legitimate tier 1 teams this season at 15,16 &18. All three made the district tournament. Last look the 15’s were in the 70s (thats about the end of the legitimate teams) the 16s are in the high 40s ( top 1/4 for the by) and the 18s at 20.
Only the top 20-25 teams at any BY are legit AAA hockey. The ranking isn’t as good of an indicator as the RATING. Preds U15, for example, are rated 5 points below the 25th ranked team. And don’t forget about Canada. And 9th and 10th graders at New England Prep schools.
5 points is a lot in ratings. You can almost think of it as the number of skaters that one team needs to replace. Take the top 5 players from those faux-AAA teams and coalesce them into one team, and that’s what makes a true AAA team.
So it is indeed perhaps true that, for example, at the 2005 BY, there might be 30-45 western PA kids who are actually can play AAA, but another 40-50 whose parents THINK that they can but can’t. So if those top 30-45 ended up at 2-3 teams, it could happen. It does in other cities. The issue is that Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, and always a couple more all think they should be that. -
2 hours ago, HereWithPopcorn said:
In your comments here, you pointed out the exact reason why it will exist. PAHL is somewhat to blame for this since they created the faux AA Major and AA Minor divisions at 14U. All it did was allow for these birth year teams to form for what was a very short window until Midgets. Now that they are done with Bantam, they aren't good enough to be 16U AA and don't want to be in a mixed 16A division, so this is their alternative.
Yes USA Hockey does not recognize 15U as a separate level outside of Tier 1, but creating the road to nowhere in PAHL helped to raise this issue as the first birth year going through this process reaches Midget level.
That’s a fair point. The creation of U15 Tier 1 without U15 Tier 2 does not help. The overall issues will remain as long as greed, nepotism, and ignorance lead the way, which will be forever.
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Add to the mix the “SHAHA invite-only 2005 AAA Pens Elite Black need somewhere to get that extra A” forming for 15U.
so at the 2005 BY, a region that has:
the lowest-ranked Pen Elite Gold team of any team in the organization. They were 1-15-3 vs USA teams ranked in the top 15
lowest ranked Pens Elite Black team of any Black team in the organization. Played only 17 games vs teams ranked ahead of them and went 6-9-2 Played 1 game vs teams in top 35. Loaded schedule with 8 games vs AA teams (2-2-4) and AAA teams ranked in very bottom
no AA team ranked higher than 23 (whatever PA team makes it to Nationals will NOT advance out of pool play, but will get a lovely weekend in scenic Kalamazoo!)
AAA Preds team that should have always stayed AA and would have had a chance to win Nationals
two Independent teams (Icemen and Vipers) that should be playing PAHL
...is now going to try to have 4, 5, and maybe even 6 2005 AAA teams!
if there was just Pens Elite U15 and no other AAA options, western PA (PAHL) would have a competitive, no-need-to-travel all over the country, AA U15 Division that would be a great fit for around 100 hockey players. This is probably true of other BYs as well.
Remember, the Tier 1 designation means something only at the end of the season and it’s for the Mid Am playdowns, where 1 team will advance to Nationals, unless there is a at-large (which will never happen from Mid Am)
No, and I mean absolutely no, scouts are going to watch any games between “AAA” teams ranked outside of the top 20. They don’t even attend the games or events where those teams play.
That extra A is literally for the purpose of the parent being able to say to their friends, co-workers, and other hockey parents at local rinks: “my kid plays triple A hockey”, or years later, “my kid PLAYED triple A hockey”. Think of that in the grand scheme of life.
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19 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:
Cue the lack of credibility alarm on this guy.
PPE Gold and Black plus Preds playing at the Tier 1 level
The TOP 7 - that's 7!!!!! Not 6 or 4 or 2, But 7.
Top 7 teams in the state are from Pittsburgh area.
The problem isn't the players, there's a ton of depth. The problem is the 3 parent coaches that won't let go and the two organizations that take the teams/players just for the $$$.
05 might just be the deepest in a long time but we'll never know how many actual Tier 1 teams could have been competitive.
Preds 05 and PPE Black are not AAA. Try to look up their combined records this season can top 25 AAA teams. You can’t, because neither has played any. No western PA 2005 AA team is ranked in top 20. Without a doubt this is a weak birth year. There might be 2 or 3 players in this birth year that get an invite to USA Hockey 15 Camp.
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2005 is the weakest birth year in the Pittsburgh area. There aren’t even enough kids who live in the Pittsburgh area to field one high level AAA team. Remember, at U15 no players get scouted outside of the top 20-25 teams, since the best of the best have already moved on to Prep schools. The players literally don’t care. The parents have invested so much at this point putting together “AAA” teams at U15 and U16 is a final last-gasp attempt to rationalize the past 7-8 years of all-in on hockey for their future beer-leaguers.
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The Pens Elite looks like they are going to focus on girls development at the younger ages so that eventually their older teams can compete nationally without bringing in half of the team from out of town, or losing the best (richest?) players to Rochester, NAHA (already declining) and SSM.
they also see that that tryout number for boys as they approach the U15 age was dropping, making the Black teams less and less viable for PeeWee and Bantam -
22 hours ago, Danner27 said:
Wow got you all worked up on this one! So the nhl guy was promoted, sorry I do not follow his career. He’s only helping to grow the game by coaching his daughters team, are you this delusional ? Sounds like you are married to him. As for the other guy that runs the place, his daughters don’t play but they are taking skating lessons ? You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see where this is heading. So I got 90% of the sorry correct, sorry I didn’t realize the nhl guy was promoted.
He wasn’t promoted. He’s held the position for years. He already has a daughter playing D1 and a son playing juniors. He literally has no agenda.
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Whatever coach told you that a 9-10 year old has college scholarship potential is ****.
At that age, development happens for goalies through goalie training.
Aslp, is he predicted to be at least 6’2”?
While this article’s title is Avonte smaller goalies, it actually points out that goalies are getting taller and taller:
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Never said he shouldn’t go watch. Maybe “these kids are excellent skaters” would have been more accurate than “these kids can flat out fly” But also this:
https://changingthegameproject.com/the-race-to-nowhere-in-youth-sports/
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you just revealed that your kids are pre-puberty. There it is.
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Kids born in 2009 can “flat out fly”? They are 9 years old. Advise to the dad: stay away from hockey parents who think this way.
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The relative improvement over 4 years speaks to:
1. Player development
2. Player recruitment
3. Coaching
4. All of the above
Pens Elite at 14U and below:
revenue stream, and the most expensive option for travel youth hockey
Pens Elite at 15U and 16U:
regional all star team made up of 50% or less kids who played there previously
Pens Elite at 18U:
kids hanging on by a thread to a future beyond high school for hockey
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2005 Gold:
2014-15 (squirt minor): 89.41
2018-19 (bantam minor): 92.06
+2.65
preds:
2014-15 (squirt minor): 83.45
2018-19 (bantam minor): 90.55
+7.03
FACTS
MT Lebo - AAA 15u?
in Western Pennsylvania Youth Hockey
Posted
And... 2005 pens elite lose to #41 Cleveland Barons in Mid Am final