HockeyFan6687

Wasn’t talking HS.  You of all people should know PAHL is known to have a few. 

Some organizations are a good ole boys club of dads year in and year out.  You could be Scotty Bowman and still won’t break in with that group. 
 

I agree with all of this.  The goal of little pens is getting them hooked and using that to boost your retention rate out of that program. The minute you get that list of kids registered for your rink, you immediately reach out and educate.  First and foremost hammer learn to skate.  Get them on the ice with that before the first pens session. Once that starts, your first session is skating heavy.  And have your skating director running a station every week.  You will dramatically reduce the number of kids laying on the ice unable to do much.  Kids laying on the ice or having to be carried around by a coach and unable to participate in drills equates to frustration by the parents and kids that quickly don’t wanna do it anymore. 
 

it blows my mind how underutilized in-house hockey is. We are making a whole sector of the population unable to access the game.  Not every family is able to manage the traveling around, not every family is able to afford PAHL hockey and there are families not interested in that much time and financial commitment from the start.  Some may never but others may get hooked by that low cost less commitment opportunity and eventually want more hence your PAHL program grows. 

5 hours ago, Corsi said:

I agree with much of what you said, but you left out the need to properly educate the parents of these kids when the kids are just entering a program at a young age.  Parents seem more than happy to have their players play in whatever organization is closest to home or where ever the kids friends are playing at an early age, but as they age and the conversations about progression begin to happen, many of these parents take whatever they are told by whoever at face value.  Parents need to understand things about how hockey is a "late acquisition sport", what terms like "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" mean, what the "path" for hockey is and isn't, and also what the real chances are of their player "making it" regardless of what "making it" means to each family and player.

You are correct!  Was so focused on the kids and the coaching I forgot that but it’s definitely part of the process.  The education must begin in Little Pens.  Weekly communication throughout that program and a pizza party/certificate awarding where you can discuss next steps etc is where is has to start and orgs must follow through on and upward from there. 

I got an idea.  Quit putting your grassroots programs on the back burner….

Focus hard on little pens/entry LTP, try hockey for free, and learn to skate

build a comprehensive marketing plan for your organization and push these programs

Watch your numbers grow! THEN….

put the right people in place (not the good ole boys club of recycled dads past their expiration date) to DEVELOP   Educate your coaches, have plans to develop that integrate and mesh across teams and age levels   
 

and you may just end up with more ingrown talent to have that AA team in your program   It starts with building your talent base under your own roof   

It just seems we are collectively losing site of the big picture   The A kids and the B kids deserve the same coaching and attention too   

What exactly is in an offer beyond the spot on the roster?  I love how some talk about receiving offers like they need to discuss with their agent.  

Anybody know how 08 and/or 09 open skates or tryouts went this week?  Interesting to see the player movement 

Well if new kids don’t get a fair shake and they keep hanging on to kids from squirt until now then why would most even consider going there?  You’re either there to place kids appropriately or run a good ole boys club.  Can’t do both.  It seems the latter will take priority in some places. 

14 hours ago, Hockey00 said:

Interesting and no info on website if it will be PAHL, Independent, AHF, etc.  

 

No mention of what tournaments or leagues. 

 

Really confusing and heard from a dad on 09s the team wasn’t even informed of the changes and were blindsided. 

Looks bad from the outside.  A good organization should look to treat their loyal players well and create situations where the talent wants to remain with the organization.  Keeping your existing families in the loop should happen before any dramatic changes are made.  
 

I’m also hearing that they are trying to push hard for a 2010 team after having all the top 2010’s last season basically pack up and move on.  Is there even a possibility?

Sounds like the older birth years have problems. 

Allegheny just posted its coaches.  No 08 or 09 just a 16uAA National Bound team. 
Surprised to see the 2010 listed being that there was mass exodus from there Last year. 

3 hours ago, Wes said:

Slightly OT, but how the heck did DF get the position as ED with PAHL when to the best of my knowledge he never had anything to do with them???  WTF?

Regardless, he's done nothing to improve anything since we left a few years back.  Everything still sucks... Just like the WPIAL.

 

 

He’s just another in a long list of good ole boy hacks that’s adopted the “This is how we have always done it” attitude.   Hence the league is full of stagnation.  

How many of those four top teams will take a hit when Esmark swoops in and takes their picks for their AAA 09 team?

A few thoughts on this….

I do not agree with coaches running their own players in private lessons.  This has potential to creat multiple issues.  If an organization is “AAA” they have to be able to hold a tryout, see the lack of talent and scrap it moving forward.  Credibility of your organization takes a hit. However now that youth hockey is more of a business these days the likelihood this happens is diminishing. Takes advantage of parents who are not as educated.  I look for an exodus of players back to AAA at the 09 birth year.  PAHL is just a one and done for many of those kids.  It’s a shame as it’s made for some good AA hockey locally.  We will see where loyalty lies 

Has anyone noticed the increasing trend of one person being involved waist deep in calling the shots of almost every aspect of an organization as well as being the head coach or rostered on numerous teams as an “assistant”?   Not a healthy trend. 

Been that way for years.  Gotta help those National bound teams. 

You really took the morning to compile a spreadsheet?  

Kids are playing hockey and love doing so. Let’s not lose sight of that.  Your concerns are rather trivial in nature.  Perhaps a hobby would better suit your time.  This youth hockey drama is an unhealthy obsession.  

Tier 2 hockey is becoming such a cesspool  of misleading organization leadership promoting the pathway to higher opportunities.  I was reading various websites promoting that they will connect their players to junior and college teams.  
Add to that the 9 million private training outfits that charge ridiculous amounts of money to get your kid to the next level and the advent of Tier 2 tournaments advertised as “AAA” showcases or “College Exposure Showcases” where nobody is really there to be scouting.  And even worse the advent of competing Tier 2 AA “National Bound Tournament Teams” as we see in Altoona and State College where kids play mostly for A level PAHL teams all season while playing tournaments expecting to compete in States effectively all for an additional $1500-$2000 on top of your regular PAHL team fees.  Altoona does have 1 team doing it right as a full season team so I lay credit where it’s due. The increased emphasis on Tier 2 National Bound glory has become an extremely unhealthy obsession in some areas.  Add Black Bear to this and the line between non-profit organization and ice rink business is increasingly disappearing where you see organization higher ups running the organization and are on the rink’s payroll at the same time.  And with multiple rinks set up this way it creates the potential for the business to keep these programs in cahoots with each other thus creating the shell game where players can be encouraged to be moved around to satisfy their situations of need in their respective organizations and facilities.  Based on what I’ve witnessed thus far I’m led to believe that’s already happened.  

it’s a sad reality with the direction hockey is going in these parts   I think the volunteer run organization that’s there for the kids is fading away fast for adults to profit off these kids thus driving up costs and potentially driving families to the point they can’t afford to play all while not re-investing a portion of those funds back into facilities to where we have quality customer service oriented staff, clean restrooms and locker rooms that don’t have puddles of piss on the floor, mold growing in the showers, no extra glass on hand requiring  plywood as a fix, as well as effective preventive maintenance on the aging chillers, dehumidifiers and Zambonis   A lot of these rinks are not taken care of and it shows   I hope I’m wrong but it seriously concerns me where we are going to be say 5 years down the road   I’m a realist and I know it’s never going to happen but it’s time to refocus on being honest and doing what’s right for kids   End rant!!

“This is the way we have always done it” is deeply entrenched in PAHL.  It’s why you see more teams looking at more independent schedules, AHF, EJEPL and whatever other leagues are out there. Make the league feel like something special.  Have a player of the week/month something.  Make the playoffs feel like an event. I’ve been to playoff sites that do nothing.  Feels like walking in for just another game.  If you want teams to stay then take your product next level.  There is still a place for the league but quit running it the way it’s always been for 50 years. 

Will this help Esmark resurrect its teams that it lost this year and will wesee the temporary layover for some in PAHL now to end?

If anyone has a child that does not go to school where scholastic hockey is an option, drop me a DM.  I can help!

46 minutes ago, zam said:

Can these organizations continue to exist indefinitely? The ones that are a shell of their former selves, fielding just one or two teams per year, moving from rink to rink.  When does USA hockey shut them down?  

Well the problem is and I know this very well.  These small orgs like you mention fall into the hands of the parent with an agenda where they have total control and create their own team etc for them and their child’s benefit.  Or in some cases those who want to control an organization to build their own brand as coaches and make money off of it.  It’s out there. 
 

to join PAHL I believe you must have a minimum number of teams but once in there is no minimum to maintain membership.  I think orga should be mandated to have a development plan in writing and absolutely must have its own ADM 8u program.  Organizations are for growth not creating a safe haven for those who have the wrong agenda.  This would create more accountability for organizations to stay true to the mission. 

Look beyond the last name and see the truth about who is running that.  

11 hours ago, ice is cold said:

Really? My son would say otherwise. And most kids (and I mean over 15) say it's the best ice.  But I assume you skate on it often to make that assessment, I guess you like it soft. To each his own.  

I don’t think the ice is bad.  The rest of it however……

I would assume that all that done to reach this point with that arrogance to think that the masses would embrace this move is becoming one big bad business decision.  
 

We are at 2 and counting for damaging PAHL organizations.  Who’s next?   
 

I don’t think all of their desired end results are bad but in many cases you have the wrong people and methods to accomplish without creating damage.