HockeyFan6687

What organizations in the region do tryouts the best?   What are some of the things that are done to make that particular organization good?  What organizations do not so good and why?  
 

I think presentation is the most crucial aspect.  If it looks bad to the naked eye even if it was done with integrity and fairness, a bad presentation can sink a ship!  
 

It seems in some places that the tryout for the top team is a formality.  Teams selected at open skates.  Prospective players buddying up with the coach while on the ice.  
 

it says a lot to have your tryout results before your vehicle hits the driveway of your home    
 

Just curious how other organizations do it.  Always hear a lot of feedback this time of year just curious what everyone else has seen heard and experienced. 

Seeing how tryouts went this year and particularly at 09 so I’m seeing and hearing that a bunch of the Esmark AAA kids that lost their team ended up on the Allegheny team.  How much does Black Bear have an influence on that from the top down being that both rinks, the organizations and management as well as organizations involved all seem to be linked together in multiple ways? Think of the competitive advantage that gives black Bear.  When one rink is short players at a given level they can simply shift em around to make top contending teams.  It then creates a major issue of competitive integrity and leaves a lot of PAHL organizations at non BB rinks at a competitive disadvantage. 

2 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Instead of folding a team, what's wrong with just still having it, and placing them in PAHL in the division they belong in? 

God forbid their kids play on a lowly A team.  It would ruin their careers.  

A lot of programs cutting talented kids that were loyal to their program or returning kids that have been there for a time for some AAA players looking to shack up for a year until next season’s AAA opportunity comes along.  Is it really worth it?   
 

Also heard some of the tryouts at various places were nothing but a formality as the teams were picked ahead of time.  Erich’s, morals, loyalty and honesty take a back seat to the prospects of winning a national championship. 
 

just remember how the Rangers tried to load up and win a cup.  See how that works.  Not sure how that will go but it will be some interesting matchups in the league this year. 

So when all these AAA kids move in and displace good players who are loyal to their organization, is it really the right thing to do and load up with all these outsiders when the odds favor the one and done scenario where next year’s AAA opportunity will be their next destination??  In the process you’ve lost a nucleus of your team but you potentially have lost the talent LOYAL to your organization.  Thus losing the ability to field a given birth year.

is blowing your load to be all in on the obsession of going to nationals worth it for your organization if it means losing the long term viability to ice a competitive team of LOYAL players that can have a shot year in and year out?  I think some organizations are potentially playing with fire.    
 

Anyone know how the Huskies tryouts have gone this far?   Seems like a risky business decision to do this. 

Just out of curiosity… has there been any discussion with PAHL about BB and the possibility of organizations being “owned” by the rink/BB as a for-profit entity?  
 

I would think that would have been mentioned before tryouts and maybe it has for all I know.  
 

The fact that youth sports has pretty much  become a business is creating a potential negative direction and pricing some families right out of the game.  It’s sad. 

19 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

I agree that it's important to have some information out there. Some people will walk into a situation expecting one thing and end up getting something completely different. Meanwhile the team they thought they were joining all scattered without them knowing. It happens all the time.

I'm most familiar with the 2013s and 2009s so I'll stick to that. And in those years I'm most familiar with teams up and down 79 and even some in the south hills.

2009s have seen more movement than any season for any birth year that I can remember. It will be helpful for parents to understand what is going on.

FOXES 09: I think their 2009 tryouts are over, but they are losing most of their top players to either North Pittsburgh or Rebellion. It's a big organization so I'm sure they filled out an 09 BY team but they will struggle. If someone is a good player that has never quite made a AA team, it may be worth inquiring with the Foxes but I would do it ASAP. This will be one of the easier 2009 AA teams to make. Don't think they've announced a supplemental but I would still inquire.

NORTH PITT 09: 2009 tryouts starting this weekend. They are picking up a lot of the Foxes players and others. I think some AAA kids trying out there as well. If you are expecting to jump in and make that AA team because you've always been AA, you may want to start thinking about another option just in case. This will be a good team.

LEBO 09: Lost 3-4 of their top players to AAA teams. This was an ok team that was top heavy before but not good depth. These losses will change the team. Like Foxes, this will be one of the easier 09 AA teams to make. They are going to have to give spots to kids who have previously never played higher than A Major. Could be a good option for someone who wants to break into a AA team but they won't be a strong team. The long time head coach is now an assistant coach. Not exactly sure of those circumstances. I'm guessing after losing a lot of their top players, they'll have more players explore other AA options this weekend.

REBELLION 09: Solid AA team last year and I haven't heard of any of their top players leaving. I haven't heard of a single person on that team wanting to leave, and I am familiar with some of them. Their strength is their coaching (Shell, Tingle, etc.) and if coaching and structure is a priority, this is the place. Just like many of the Foxes 09 players are looking north to North Pitt, many of them are looking to move to Rebellion as well. AAA cuts from SHAHA and Preds are looking here as well. This team will get a lot better but may not be as hard to make as North Pitt.

PREDS 09 AAA: Big tryout numbers with lots of Pens and Esmark kids. Longtime AAA kids didn't make the team. Most of those cuts being offered spots on their AA team, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest with some better teams with better coaching nearby. Kids are looking at lots of options like Rebellion and Lebo to a lesser extent. Kids that were cut from this AAA team will have a very good chance of making Rebellion or Lebo. I think both of those tryouts are this weekend. Not sure how the Preds AA will do. They were a last place team last year. Depends on if the AAA cuts stay or leave, and it seems like more are leaving. Preds 09 AAA may end up being the second best 09 Tier 1 team in the area. They should be close to Vengeance.

SHAHA 09 AAA: This team made lots of changes and improved. They took some of the Lebo AA players which is nice to see they didn't just favor existing AAA kids because they had an extra letter. Also picked up some Vengeance kids. It will be an improved team. Their AAA cuts seem to be looking at Rebellion and not staying at SHAHA.

Lots of movement already, but even more to come over the next few days and over the weekend. Parents should go into these situations aware of what is happening. But parents should also remember that one team getting weaker could mean an opportunity for their kid.

I think parents should prioritize:

1. Coaching experience
2. Location to their home
3. After those two, consider competitiveness of the team

Coaching is what keeps a team together, helps them improve, and can prevent drama (with parents and kids) even before it starts. Driving distance from your home will make a huge difference in how much your kid loves (or starts to hate) hockey.

We'll see some 09 supplementals next week. Usually those are used for filling in mixed birth year teams, but some desperate AA teams could offer them as well.

How do you obtain all of this information? That’s more coverage than NHL preseason!

13 minutes ago, Deke715 said:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/business/local-business/iceplex-lawsuit-alleges-former-operator-took-300000-in-authorized-funds/?fbclid=IwAR1jcxTcxABhYjIh6cti3UR7oZzDIEeNLBCG67AAXkIBx9mOT6N8uhigjB8

Don’t forget the work he did with W Graeme Roustan trying to run a network of ice rinks including one in Johnstown, then the two of them who tried to take over all Cambria County Ice Rinks and the Johnstown ECHL team.  Their rinks all closed and the team was run into the ground. 

So based on these players intentions, they’ve already made the Badgers or whatever other team they are going to?  Kind of defeats the purpose of trying out don’t ya say?  Or do these teams get picked ahead of time. 
 

it’s always amazed me how much information some individuals have about the “free agent” player movement of these kids and the whole low down on what each team is with their rosters and who the favorites are for at this time next year.  I could have thought I was reading about the NHL but then I realized we are talking about 13-14 year olds.  I think it takes a lot of free time obsessing over trivial matters such as this.  It’s a kids game. Better to sit back and enjoy watching the games.  

If the AHF is run anything like it’s clone the EJEPL, you are in for what makes a schedule with little or no time off all season.  It would be preferable to stay with PAHL and tournament play.  Read the AHF Facebook page. It’s full of endless complaints.  Appears to be very poorly run.  
 

when you are the monopoly and the money is flowing, why care?  
 

Bottom line, youth sports is a business these days. 

What is the intended goal of this when there will be mid to low level A players on it with little experience?   It’s really a shame these days that these “experts” are taking advantage of families that really have no clue what they are really getting into and for the ridiculous expense.  The hockey system is broken.  Integrity is sacrificed for $$$$.  

There are kids there that should not be AAA.  It ruins the credibility of their program.  

I’m not sure there was bashing going on but there was some constructive discussion about the direction of the program.  
 

How come the constant bashing of the pens elite is allowed but come close to bashing the mustangs and it’s shut off?  

Knowing what I do I highly doubt that Dave Weaver would bend the rules.  Sam probably got his games in very early and met the requirements before heading to where he was going for the season.  During those years I’m told there was much attention to compliance.  If it’s not the Pittsburgh team winning they get their panties in a wad.  There is more to Western PA than just Pittsburgh.  
 

The mustangs were successful in very different times than we have now.  There’s more AAA, AA and Junior opportunities out  there than before.  A program is doomed if its philosophy is “this is how we have always done it”.  The key to longevity is being able to self evaluate yearly and adapt to the market.  What can you do differently that makes your program more attractive?   The program has a great history and I’m sure nobody wants it to fade so perhaps a good hard look at tearing it apart and assessing top to bottom to see where things can change and improve.  

Albeit this has been done before I think tournament teams are slowly fading.  The AA level PAHL teams are already playing an extended schedule starting with summer practice and games and tournaments running into August and running through til March.  I think kids on A teams that don’t go as full tilt are where most of the interest will come from.  Is the concept still helpful to player development when you may get to play and practice with AA kids on AA teams for a brief period with the rest wrapped around A teams with A players and potentially lesser coaching.  I think if you really elevate your game then development at the higher level should be 100% of the time.  More can be accomplished with one team one roster one coach plus the chemistry and brotherhood that comes with staying together.  
 

what are the differences between this and the state college version of this running under the name Keystone Wild?  Perhaps two programs 40 miles apart in an area that’s not rich in numbers is a bit much?

So here’s a good question… if USA Hockey forbids member organizations to run full ice mite and basically not follow the ADM which doing so can result in sanctions to your program the how is this not what they are doing?  BB is taking over USA Hockey member programs in its rinks and also pushing these full ice AAA programs despite calling it another name and registering under AAU….is this not a major issue having all of this intermixed?   
 

also what happens in a few years when either A) BB starts shutting under performing rinks or B) they’ve stretched beyond their means and ends up belly up with a lot of rinks out of business?

is the monopoly really a good idea?

8 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

Once they roll out the Mite AAA and AAA learn to skate programs they will be able to print money.

 

They got the Mite AAA market exploding in East!

26 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

Anyone who doesn't like hitting, PAHL is trying to get a no-checking division going. 

If PAHL doesn’t keep running the same old school crap it’s going to be in a very bad spot with all the competition for leagues and independent teams.  
 

“This is how we’ve always done it” is a kiss of death.  

12 hours ago, Saucey said:

Flipping between the three 14u games and I haven't seen a hit laid yet. ?

This is what they want on the road to total non-check hockey.  

Mid-Am is nothing more than a good ole boys club of politicians that will never change.  Know the right person or kiss the right ass and you may get an opportunity.  They all love their titles that make them feel and look important.  Not to mention the fancy sport coats they wear with the USAH logo emblazoned on them.  
 

It’s really a shame these tournaments have no promotion, a trash website and no real atmosphere that you are at something big.  It’s a big deal for these kids so why not put a little extra effort in and give these kids something special.  

33 minutes ago, Lucky17 said:

Don’t leave out Altoona 

Especially in the days of Dave Weaver.  He booked the refs!

8 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Too be honest, maybe having BB employees in charge will clean up that garbage organization and the homer refs will be reigned in. 

Organizations don’t have control as before and pretty much every rink has “homer” refs.  Just ask any visiting parent.  
 

I think it’s very unfair to place the kids in the middle of your slanderous comments.  

7 hours ago, 2muchAAAinWPA said:

This much is clear.  They have 4 rinks already and control or influence over the orgs in their rinks.  PAHL cant stop it.  As with anything in this world, money talks.  When you have 4 billion in capital to work with, can the single owner rink afford to not listen?  If this is going to continue, which it is, is it better to cooperate or dig in and fight as long as you can?  I dont see how PAHL can fend BB off, if they wanted to.  Its really in the rink owners, who own a single rink squaring off against a corporation that owns 36 now (think he just bought two more), can you afford not to?  Im sure there are some owners that will not sell but if the orgs dont join their AHF league, the org and the rink will suffer in a dying PAHL division. (Look at DVHL - which still exists, so not all hope is lost). Maybe its worth cooperating to salvage what can be salvaged, or at least accept certain levels of compromise.  Whats better for youth hockey in this area?  Is it a knock down drag out fight or work with the incoming to keep the programs that are  building, investing and improving.  Im on the middle on this.  I think BB could be good thing, it seems like it could be a better product than PAHL and MidAM.  Is it perfect?   Nothing is in youth sports is.  Either way its coming, surf the wave or get toppled over and hope you float to the top. 

I dont rejoyce about the Vipers current situation, it will be hard to find a new home.  Alpha is buying up all of Shadysides ice, so their school league is using a lot of that.  Its possible they could move there.  Butler?  Shadyside Academy, what Alpha doesnt buy?  What about that Hunt Armory, I dont know it or who plays there, would they have ice.  I dont think any of the one sheet rinks would have enough, like Nevin.  I can see Vipers losing a bunch of kids to Huskies, Renegades, or Aviators.  Its tough, hope they find a solution.

If you havent at least read up on the AHF, Blackstone Investment group, Black Bear sports, Murry Gunty.  Websites and social media are a good start.  Make an informed decision about whether or not its a worthy fight or worth compromising.  

One thing that does concern me is while we have a lot of bad parents and coaches in youth sports, there are a lot of good folks who put their time in and work to do things right.  Watching people like that work hard to do it the right way getting pushed out does suck.  I hope they find a way to stay invovled if thats the case.  Sure its demoralizing, but if your character is true, another opportunity will be there for you to continue to support youth hockey.  

I think you make a lot of great points.  While I have my suspicions of BB sports monopolizing the market, it could do some good.  I do believe there are some other rinks throughout the PAHL footprint that could use a very thorough house cleaning.  
 

I think the corporate non-parent sector joined with the “right” parents and volunteers could make a viable team.  There’s always been politics in youth sports and no place is immune to politicians being in the mix but it’s out of hand.  This could be a solution.  Maybe not a cure but a step in the right direction.  
 

I think BB needs to address with its customer base is simple….

1. How to avoid pricing families that are on the borderline out of access to the game. 
 

2. plans on keeping travel reasonable for all levels and limited for those playing on the lower level teams.  The A minor and B teams don’t need to go to incredible distances for play.  
 

3. how converting to for profit status effects playing in PAHL, how that effects one’s ability to fundraise etc. 

I think some town hall type meetings in each respective rink allowing for parent Q&A.  
 

the coming weeks and months are going to be very interesting and I think all of us paying parents deserve as much information as possible before decisions are made.  

11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

It's about HockeyFan6687 kid according to rumors on the street 

Boy you’re a tough guy.