hockey57410

On 4/23/2022 at 5:04 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

Do you have to go to tryouts for Tier III Juniors? How do the teams contact you and how did they find your kid?  Just curious? Thanks for any info you might share.

Go to harmarville and you can play vengeance.  look at their roster from last year.  they have kids who never played AAA and some kids who went from not even playing travel period to being on their team.  Pay and you can play.  You may not play much and you may not be good, but you can say you play T3 Juniors!

A girl on my daughter's team has a boyfriend who was asked to join Vengeance last December.  He hadn't played travel in over a year and was only playing varsity.  They wanted him to pay full season fee.  Luckily his dad passed on the "offer"

23 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I hear all these negatives about Programs in western pa!  Where should I take my kid for the best coaching and organization that is fair?  I hear the least negatives about North Pittsburgh Wildcats and Artic Foxes!  Are they the best big organizations? Just looking for opinions!  Those 2 also seem to be the least interested in the "extra A".

Depends on what you want.  NP and Jim Black run a good rink.  Foxes are big organization, but they cater to the casual player and don't develop kids or work any harder for talented groups.  Basically foxes treat AA down to Low B all the same.  

Renegades are the opposite of Foxes and they have a good mite program, same with the Predators.

Again, as everyone else said, play where you're close to.  It really doesn't matter until you hit U16 anyway.  

17 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

This is what all the FAKE AAA teams sell.  I have heard it for years yet I would say I typically see the opposite.  Usually the fake AAA teams have players playing above their level dumping and chasing, rimming pucks and firing pucks off the glass and out.  The kids don't develop well and become puck chuckers not play makers.  That is what they sell, yet I have seen almost as many or more kids move up to AAA levels from AA while a lot of the kids on the wanna be AAA (40 or above) end up getting cut, play AA,  and are below average there.

At what point do we stop the argument that practice makes them better and they don't need games.  By U16/U18 they need to start focusing more on their game skills.  Sure practice is important to install new systems or work on special teams, but its not mites or squirts or pee-wees!  What is the point of always saying "practice, practice" when you never put it to use in a game situation.

And almost every PAHL team practice I've watched at rinks, the teams drills are not useful, there are always drill destroying kids.  

but it's funny that all these B, A, AA, AAA kids will all end up in beer league.  Maybe a handful at some low level Jr. hockey.

On 4/10/2022 at 6:13 PM, Birddog said:

I just heard that Vengance 06 team just folded.

Can someone verify that?

If so that is going to change the landscape pretty significantly, I also assume if this is true then this is how Esmark is getting a team.

I haven't seen any confirmation that Vengeance has folded?  Where is it?  Has there been any announcement for coaches for 2022-2023?  I checked their website and tryouts haven't started for 2006 and later birth years?

20 hours ago, AMR24 said:

I always feel players in the B division often get over looked because they are in a co-op. There are some really good players scattered about the B division.

If you watch the open division, the play is significantly lower.  If you went to Alpha to watch the all star game it was noticeable the speed from B Division to the AAA division.  If you're even halfway decent travel hockey player and your school is one of the co-ops or in B Division, you'll dominate.  Sadly it all depends on where your school gets placed each year unless you're one of the traditional AAA schools.

11 minutes ago, mrfreeze said:

The guy in charge of the Vengeance does not have his finger on the pulse and often lacks communication. The u16 and U18 teams last year where new and the result of a parent that left years ago coming back with his kids after he wrecked all the other organizations he was at, the u15 had a coaching change and that team basicly split up and some went to shaha either by choice or cut, the goalie left for Cleveland. The u14 pretty much went to esmark because they also had a coaching change and did not get their way. Vengeance had a chance to really become a better program, but missed the boat. They still have good teams at the 08 and lower levels, but my guess is that will continue to fall apart as Esmark recruits those kids pretty heavy along with pens cuts and adds some imports to the mix. In the end you just swap players and sometimes you get slightly better, but these teams still fill their rosters and certain people profit heavily while selling the dream. Tryouts suck, people jumping all around, lying and playing games as well as coaches and organizations. Good luck, do what is best for your kid and family and make informed decisions. I always feel bad watching some of these kids go through 2-5 tryouts trying to get a spot, wish there was a better way.

Has that trio of dads who went to the Vengance aged out yet?  Hopefully they move on.  I'm not sure where they can go that they haven't already burned.  Sadly, their kids will end up the same as all the rest.  I don't think Yuri will let the dads coach U18 so I'd be surprised if they went their

16 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

once again, if the guy that goes on twitter to attack his previous program when he resigned was still the coach this year at Montour the season wouldn’t have been any different. The players were the players. He couldn’t have changed that.
 

The kid of board member that stood up to him played JV as a senior, never dressed for a varsity game with new coach. Although she did with clay as a coach, because Clay wanted to score brownie points with said board member. Clay made the statement at a board meeeting. “How do you go against me when I let your kid play in a varsity game?” The kid should have never played a varsity game because of skill level, but more importantly because the kid never even went to JV practices. And there were about 12 kids more deserving of that opportunity. Clay was trying to use his power to influence a board member while completely screwing over all the kids that deserved that opportunity. 

the new coach is far superior to the previous. Their talent level was not anywhere near the level of Clay’s team in his first year of AA. Clays team only won 4 games that year. And his team had 8 seniors that year. It also had the same players that won the A championship the next year. A very talented group. This years team, the one that couldn’t even field a roster of more than 14 kids and only 4 seniors, won 4 games, and lost 2 in overtime. 2 more points than Clay’s first year in AA. So more successful with a lot less talent. And the biggest difference between the 2 coaches. The new coach actually taught the kids. The old coach said give the puck to Felsing and Geregach and and that was it. No coaching, just give the puck to the big guns. 
 

Any coach could have won the Pens cup with that team the next year. ANYONE. They had so much talent. One player in Division one. One player currently in NCDC. Five others that played AAA amateur. They blew teams out by ten goals on a regular basis. A lot of their games were a joke. 

Clay resigned three times when he was at Montour. The first time because he didn’t get a coach bus for a ride from RMU to PPG  for their championship celebration. What a joke. They should have accepted his resignation then. He threw a hissy fit like a 5 year old because of a short bus trip. 
 

And the biggest fault of Clay. He was also asked two times in board meetings  to help the JV coaches run better practices. He said he would. Was on the ice for JV practices both times, once each time. But he never said a word to the coaches during or after. He was there for show. He never did what the board asked him to do and help the coaches. He just went out there to make it look like he was doing something. And how do we know this? When he resigned the last time(not fired), he went to the JV coach and told him that he sucked as a coach. What kind of human being does that? He never tried to help, he just criticized. Great example of a good coach huh? He lied to the board and the parents, never did a thing to try and help the JV improve PRACTICES. And then calls out the coach after he is on his way out. Real class. 

I hope the parents of his new team don’t cross this guy or he will air his grievances in public on twitter, like a teenager. And tell the kids to look out for flying sticks, because he has a tendency to throw them when practices aren’t going well. Because that is what mature coaches do I guess. 
 

 

 

Yikes! Someone didn't get a spot on the power play ?

20 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

The Lebo goalie had the second lowest goals allowed in PAHL AA and took his team to the championship (although they lost).  I think Preds had two goalies?  Looking at their scores it looks like goaltending carried them a lot too.  

I don't remember Preds goalies being anything special?

23 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

So Clay Shell and Rick Tingle are coaching the 09 Rebellion AA team together??? That's kind of a crazy good coaching staff! That's a very experienced group of coaches who have done a lot of winning over the years, especially when most coaches at that age level have been guys that have come up with their kids; 8U, 10U, 12U, etc. Now you have experienced high school coaches stepping down in age to coach 09s. I bet they are going to pick up a lot of good players. Good for them.

Clay and Rick will be a good combo.  It's also a nice pick up for the organization.  I wonder how that Dad from the Montour Board feels about his decision now that the season is over.  Sad they let him focus on his kids JV team at the expense of the program.  Glad to see Clay back on top with a good program.

7 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

A

• 4 division winners seeded by point percentage (Total accumulated points divided by the total possible points for the team)
• Highest division winner's point percentage is the number one seed.   
• Next 4 teams seeded by point percentage
• The highest point percentage non-division winner would be the number five seed.
• The teams are not reseeded  

Tiebreakers

Tiebreakers to be used for teams with identical point percentage shall be as follows:

1. Highest points percentage in games against teams involved in the tie (Head-to-Head Competition)
2. Most wins in regular season
3. Least number of total penalty minutes (average per game) in the regular season
4. Coin flip

 

7 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Great Battle for Final Playoff spot

	LEAGUE	CLASS		TEAM		GP	W	L	T	PTS	GF	GA
1	PIHL	A	N	Fox Chapel		18	18	0	0	36			1.0000
2	PIHL	A	S	North Catholic		20	14	4	2	30			0.7500
3	PIHL	A	W	Quaker Valley		19	14	5	0	28			0.7368
4	PIHL	A	E	Norwin		18	12	4	2	26			0.7222
5	PIHL	A	E	Westmont Hilltop		18	12	6	0	24			0.6667
6	PIHL	A	S	Moon		19	12	6	1	25			0.6579
7	PIHL	A	E	Greensburg Salem		19	12	7	0	24			0.6316
8	PIHL	A	W	McDowell		18	11	7	0	22			0.6111
	PIHL	A	S	North Hills		19	11	8	0	22			0.5789
	PIHL	A	E	Kiski Area		20	10	8	2	22			0.5500
	PIHL	A	N	Freeport		19	8	8	3	19			0.5000
	PIHL	A	N	Plum		19	7	9	3	17			0.4474

 

I'm pulling for North Hills to make a move.  They deserve it.

On 2/16/2022 at 2:25 PM, BeaverFalls said:

I can’t believe we are having this discussion about JV hockey.  It’s truly meaningless. 

Don't tell that to the Montour Hockey board!  We saw how that ended for them!

On 12/29/2021 at 3:47 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Only the president left, his son graduated. The decision did not affect this years team. They are better off with the new coaches that actually coach all the kids and not just their top players. And what is happening with this years team is not unexpected, because they lost a lot of talent, not because they lost the coaches. The new coaches have more and better experience than the previous staff. 

The coaches resigned because they told the board that they didn’t care about the JV team. And the board fought back on the issue. Which is what is right for the organization. The problem started with the varsity coaches not allowing JV/varsity call ups play in a JV playoff game because they didn’t want them to get hurt. Even though they couldn’t stop those same kids from playing for their Amateur teams, or playing any other sport that they could get hurt playing. The JV played their first playoff game with ten skaters. They did win and advance, all the way to the championship. But the call ups did get to play after the first game, which was the right thing to do. The head varsity coach was also asked in at least 2 board meetings over a couple of years to help the Jv coaches improve their practices. Both times the coach said he would do it, both times he did nothing. The parents just wanted their children to have the opportunity to have better practices. It wasn’t about playing time, it was about improving practices so their kids could get better. And after the varsity coach’s resignation was accepted this time(third time they resigned), the varsity coach went to the JV coach and told him he sucked as a coach. So instead of trying to help improve a young coach, he ignored the parents request for help even though he obviously thought the coach could use improvement. 
 

All of this doesn’t make sense for the simple fact that the JV teams players, or at least some of them, would eventually be playing varsity. So why wouldn’t you want the kids that will eventually play varsity to have the opportunity to improve? Makes no sense. 

This had nothing to do with playing time for kids just because they were seniors. That can be seen with the team this year. There are 3 seniors that are still playing Jv this year. Because the board did not force the coaches to put seniors on the varsity just because they were seniors. 

 

 This was the third time those coaches resigned. The first time was when they won the Pens Cup and the board wouldn’t spend extra money for a Coach bus to take the kids to the Penguins game where they were being honored. The school bus wasn’t good enough for the coaches. What a joke. They resigned because the board, the people responsible for the spending of ALL of the organizations parents money, wouldn’t spend the extra money for a bus ride from RMU to PPG arena. This was all about the coaches vanity. And that has no place in high school sports. 
 

The team this year would have been the same team if those coaches returned, because the kids available are the kids available. Last years team graduated 7-8seniors. 5 of them played AAA amateur sometime during their high school career.  They lost their top two scorers that accounted for more than 50% of their scoring. The team this year doesn’t even have enough kids to field a full roster for a game, without calling up kids that are not varsity ready. They have not played a game with 18 skaters once. They played their last game with 11 skaters. They usually only have three lines and 5 defensemen. Tough to compete at the AA level with a roster that small. Yet they have competed, won a few games so far, and kept a couple close with the top teams.

And to top it all off, the previous coach has taken to twitter to mock this years team. Even though they have already won almost as many games as Montour won the first year they played AA. 3 wins so far this year as opposed to 4 wins for the whole year, when the previous coach was in charge. The first year in AA the team was loaded with talent too. Much more than this years team. And he disparages a board member that does more work than all the coaches combined because he stood up for what is right for the program and all the kids. Very petty. 
 

And lastly, I know of not one parent who was upset that the coaches left. And I am at all games and some practices talking to other parents. Haven’t heard one complaint. 
 

 

 

Wow, thanks for the update. That is a lot of info. I didn't know they relied on only a few kids so much.

Anyone know what happened to Montour?  They were always in the hunt and I haven't seen their name in any rankings at all?  I heard they replaced they replaced the entire board and coaching staff?  

Quote

? The suburban entitlement on display in this thread is great. 

Good point.  All the people living in the same Ryan/Heartland/Etc. homes.  Garage on the left, Garage on the right.... cul de sac. The same people who live in Bethel Park or Robinson and tell people they're from "Pittsburgh"

LOL

We all know the best hockey players only live in the North Hills and South Hills!

That is nothing new for Belmont or Armstrong.  If you've ever played there or seen the parents, you'll understand.  

4 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

How will all the scouts watch little Tommy play??  They block practice sessions, who is watching that?

don't worry... daddy has all Tommy's clips ready to send out!

Someday I think parents will realize that all this doesn't really matter until kids start hitting and hit puberty.  I can't even count how many "all star" mites/squirts/peewees fade away once they start hitting and kids hit growth spurt.  PPE has absolutely no loyalty to any parents either.  There are countless parents who pay for years then when it comes to U16/U18 their kids get cut for someone better.  

You really would be better off working with a skating coach as much as possible in their youth and take private or small group lessons.  It doesn't matter if you play "independent" schedule with 50 games or a solid PAHL with 30.  Kids don't develop as much during games as they do in lessons/practice.  The PPE practices are just as much of a joke as others.  I've seen 60+ kids on the PPE ice trying to run drills and no one takes the time to stop and work 1:1 with kids.  

Again, invest in skating time and if your kid is good enough, he'll make AAA.  That's simple.  Otherwise you're spending money hoping you get some leverage.

I'm sure there are plenty of parents on this board who know kids who were PPE when they were kids and now are average players on their HS team.

11 hours ago, Tendymom said:

$800 for the season...

PPE is $1300-1500 depending on BY

Vengeance is $1200 (even though some BY are dad coaches)

Esmark is $1200

Icemen - ?

Lebo AAA - ?

Not sure on any of the gym fees or trainer fees

1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

What do you mean by "battled PPE"? 

Battled?

4 hours ago, Danner27 said:

One of my boys just pointed out to me “dad you know the parent he’s talking about” I do ? after a small conversion I do! I guess he’s not calling games anymore ? Looks like things haven’t changed much, this is his second run with vengeance. My son just told me in the past three years one of his kids went vengeance-Lebo-predators now back to the vengeance. 

he teamed up with another couple dads who went icemen, shaha, Preds, then vengeance. somethings never change

8 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

I don't think this is true across the board. Like most organizations, some birth years have strong teams, and others don't. Vengeance certainly has some good teams at other birth years.

But Vengeance are a completely different discussion. I'm more worried about PAHL organizations that are pulling their top BY teams and going independent. 

not all organizations let full teams join their association, but there are some that are known to let coachs/dads bring in a almost full team.  I think people on here probably know which ones do and which ones dont

the problem that poses is some of those pahl teams who want to be independent or AA/a teams get mad when organization won't let them, so they jump to these other organizations that will let them.  also, if you ever look at schedules, the independent and AA/a teams rarely play any PAHL teams.  they are afraid of losing.  they have no problem driving to Columbus or buffalo and going 0-3 over the weekend with a 4-30 goal differential as long as it isn't a PAHL team.

13 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

the 2005 Vengeance team got smacked around all weekend not to mention being out shot 2-1,  and one game 4-1.... One daddy put both teams together.....

 

Vengance are like the aviators in that if you pay enough money, dad can bring all his kids, relatives, and their friends and even be the "coach" I'm sure that team will move somewhere next year with a different jersey. 

18 hours ago, Ron Shock said:

The Aviators continue to be disgruntled parents.... their 19u girls team is mostly former Foxes players who were not happy with the coach last season. 

Aviators are really a train wreck.  I don't think any of their coaches even play hockey?  Dads who want to wear a coach jacket.  I can't even understand how they're still around.  I remember a team from Erie played under aviators and one from WV too.  basically if you dont like an organization, you can take your group to aviators and say you're a team

34 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

You are right, it is all just semantics.  What you are saying is absolutely what I think minor birthyear teams can do but if PAHL can preserve competition by calling it "AA minor" then who gives a crap?

And at this point, does it even matter anymore?  You know the "independent" teams are still going to play some of the local PAHL teams anyway.  I think people are fed up with PAHL, their FP Points and other drama.  I'm not sure what purpose PAHL has at this point.

4 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

There is a tweet on Pittsburgh Hockey Digest from 9-7-21!  Sure would be sad to lose that coverage of Hockey in western PA. 5 guys listed as contributors on the site.  If anyone knows them maybe they could give us some insight.

Pandemic and they had to get different jobs?