Carl Racki

Inflation, cost to play I am sure won't help things.  

23 minutes ago, Hockey247 said:

The rumor was a lot of 09 AA Badgers were jumping ship and going to Esmark, along with 09 Vengeance.  I’m not sure how that played out, but I assume 09 Esmark had a larger turnout, while Vengeance suffered.  It may be smart on Vengeance, to have that supplemental, because there has to be an overflow.  I’m not familiar as to whether the tryout dates normally overlap like they did, but that has to hurt some teams (as well as benefit others).

Here is how I have seen the 2009 story go this tryout season.  Players of the 2009 Vengeance pretty much all decided to jump ship.  Most of their top players seemed to go to the Preds tryouts.  Some made it some did not.  I think then some went to Esmark tryouts after getting cut from other places.  Now you have the left overs from all the tryouts that have been cut probably several times looking into Vengeance.  People are nuts.  Then you have some that were cut from several teams looking for prep schools.  It never ends.  

26 minutes ago, No Politics said:

Maybe I'm not understanding this team, but why is this posted under the "Western Pennsylvania YOUTH Hockey" thread?

Entertainment purposes only!

1 hour ago, HappyHockeyPucks said:

Vengeance 2009 - Why are they having so much trouble filling out the roster? The 2009 renegades team had several really good AA players that could fill out a roster. 

So if you brought the "good" players from the AA Renegades you might have a good AA team not a AAA team.  I am not sure how many actual AAA caliber players were at the vengeance tryouts.  Same thing happened last season to Esmark.  At least Esmark didn't still have a team and folded as it would have been bad.  

2 hours ago, celly68 said:

anyone have any experience with this team playing for them? No practices during the week and 3 tournaments a month. 

Sounds like a great way to waste money!

There is some solid men's league games most Saturdays as well.

7 minutes ago, Nepotisim_anyone said:

Totally. You are right on with that statement. But what’s the alternative? Boycott them? 

That is why a lot of the 2006 group left and 2007 group left.  

3 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

PAHL or AHF? 

I would guess PAHL.  I would hope not AHF since they are not a BB rink

12 hours ago, hockey55 said:

Why is 2009 birth year such a mess every single year 

Honestly once you hit 2nd year Bantam teams are always a mess through Midget.  Kids jumping around, teams disappearing, .....  Its just hockey.  I could give you many examples from 2006-2010.  

47 minutes ago, hockeydadx3 said:

 

CranjisMcBasketball, I agree 100%. The challenge is it seems this board completely agrees that Pens does things unfairly and it’s a waste of money and all the other AAA organizations in the region are fake AAA teams full of parents in search of an additional A.  What is one to do?? Play basketball? It seems like the only option left. 

I disagree, play pickle ball 

1 hour ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Predators charge a coaching fee. I don't think it's in cash, but it's significant. Last time I talked to someone there, it was  $900-1000/kid. I think this was just AAA teams though. Not sure if they pay any other coaches. But $900 x 15 kids is $13,500.

For whatever reason, high school has generally paid better for years. The coaching salaries are not a surprise to me.

Is that an actually to be paid as a salary for the coach or is that like a team fund which also usually pays for travel expenses like hotels, food, gas,...

Some kids do not go to North Catholic but I believe all of them do Excell once they are  in 9th grade.  Pretty sure

14 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Pucks11 is correct. Not every good player plays or even wants to play at Pens. Between not being in the club, wanting to keep playing with friends, not wanting to deal with NC or excel, not wanting/able to pay that much money, being overlooked, there's lots of reasons that not every kid plays there. And reasons maybe they aren't at whatever other orgs, too. Is what it is.

People sure do know how to take this all too seriously and suck the fun out of the game. 

Agree, lots of top players that could make the Pens roster that are from Pittsburgh  choose to not play there for different reasons.  Some because they don't want to spend the money on Excel, North Catholic,....  Not sure what the total cost would be for a year with everything including travel costs but would guess around $30,000.  It is a great program with good coaches but costs a lot of money. 

Look at their 2007 birth year team.  They lost a lot of their top players for that reason. Not bottom players.   They are still a great team.  If you take away the top 3-5 players there is not much difference between the rest and top AA players.  I have seen this for years. Believe me.  Mommy's and Daddy's that are spending lots of money don't want to believe that though.  It is a great program but does cost a lot of money. 

If you could get the next best group of 15-17 kids in Western PA all on the same team I think they would usually be competitive with great coaching.  The problem is it is tough to find parents of all the top players that are crazy enough to drive past 5 rinks to build a team like that.  Most people that crazy are willing to remortgage their house to play Pens, Prep,....

Some teams have done it.  2006 SHAHA team, 2008 Vengeance team.   

22 hours ago, CranjisMcBasketball said:

I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion but there is too much travel hockey. All these organizations with 4 to 15283847372 sub A major teams would be better suited along with their families having a robust house program and only having 3-4 traveling teams per age group max.  
 

I think the lower level travel teams are great as long as the play PAHL and only do 2-3 tournaments that are 2-5 hours max away.  Then maybe one to two local tournaments.  The kids really enjoy doing those trips and it is great bonding for the players and families.  No reason to take that experience away from the kids.  It's not like they are charging $7000 plus team fees and selling a bs product like some other programs.  As long as people truly know what they are getting and enjoy it I think it is great.  It is when orgs. try to make people believe it is a "PATH" to the NHL or D1 college yet they send very few players to play tier one or tier two juniors, (I don't count tier 3 pay to play as there are over 100 teams and literally anyone can play) that is a far bigger problem.  I think players of the lower level travel teams all just enjoy playing the game.  I don't think anyone is telling them it is a path to anywhere and do all these extras/spend more money.  They just enjoy the game and the families they play with.  I think that is great.

23 minutes ago, Overqualified said:

If you took the top 10 skaters and a goalie from each of the 4 divisions all 4 teams would be pretty equal your not better because of the division you play in high school in

AAA high school isn't like AAA tier 1 like amateurs

That's hilarious.  No, its not like AAA amateur hockey but the depth of the top ten players on the top teams in AAA or AA would smoke the top 10 from teams in the d division or A.  The AAA schools just have a lot more hockey players to choose from giving them more depth most seasons.  There may be some rare instances where that would not be the case but I think they would be rare. 

On 4/2/2024 at 3:19 PM, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

I agree with this. I have seen coverage of the D2 teams here and there. I do think that it is also true that they are ignored to some extent. It's complicated because there are teams like Meadville that have come back from D2. I believe Baldwin was not in good shape for a while either, but I think they only went down to A. Regardless, you would like to see teams have a chance to come back to the "pure" divisions, even if most of them do not.

Most of you do not remember this, but in the 1990s, Connellsville was in AAA due to the size of their school. They were terrible, losing every game by at least 10 goals, once again proving that school size is not the most important factor in whether a school team will be good. The guy who holds the AAA scoring record had something like 20 points in 4 games against them. You would like to have a place for a team like that to exist. I believe that was the original intention of the Open Division as it was called 20 years ago.

You are correct it was pretty bad in the late 90's through the early 2000's as they would only place teams by school size.  I asked for years about changing that.  If I remember correctly, they finally allowed teams to move to the open division if they couldn't compete in their current one. That led to a bunch of teams in the open division.  They do a much better job now getting teams in a division that they can compete in.  It will never be perfect but it is a Ton better

6 hours ago, Icebucket said:

Typically our region is only ever 3A, but they only got in because they are hosting so not sure how that works

Tier 2 is a joke in my opinion.  Missing most of the top teams , teams get in because they are hosts,.....Their is better competition at a lot of the bigger tournaments throughout the season than tier 2 nationals.

3 hours ago, Limitless said:

A lot of you don't understand the landscape and just spread rumors. Have any of you dads that have zero hockey experience even watch anything but your own child?

Pens - Top two lines are solidified.  Good luck to any new kids breaking their top two lines.  Better have good attitude and happy you are wearing Pens gear if on 3rd and 4th line.

Preds - We all know the dad that loves to be on the bench that ruined Esmark.  Otherwise they could be a very good AAA team, but south hills area doesn't seem to figure it out. 

Vengeance - That team has not improved in the last 2 years and only holds its ranking bc of teams they play and being a "AAA" team.  Import a coach from Detroit that doesn't attend practices really shows how invested the organization/coach is with these kids.   So keep spending $10,000 to fill pockets.  Also, how many other shady things can happen over there before it's exposed.

SHAHA - Tough to compete with Preds in same area.  Would be a good team if they combined top two lines. But much cheaper option than Preds.

Icemen - The rink sucks and the location isn't good to attract players.  This is the only team out of the 3 listed above that has consistently rose in the ranks the last two years and proving to all the haters.  Pens have been a top 5 team for the last 3 years.  We all know they are the top dog and is #1 destination.

Esmark - Team folded last year bc of a certain parent taking players to Preds.  We see it every year, whoever has the money and filling these organizations pockets the most, thats all they care about, they have the control or balls of these organization heads.  This team next year will be nothing but a A major team next year if they even get enough to field.   

 

If you ask me, a lot of kids stay put and all of this is nonsense. Get on with your lives and enjoy the limited time you have with your kids.  Spend your money wisely.  And if you have extra cash to toss around.  I will gladly accept your money and tell you how good your kid is and how he is going to the NHL.  Seems to be the way things are anymore.

It's funny, you are mostly spot on in my opinion.  I also thought it was a shame the Preds and SHAHA wouldn't combine and make a legit top team IF WELL COACHED.  I can't believe guys would drive across town again to pay a ton of money to play for the 2009 Esmark team.  I thought the reason everyone left was they finally figured out that the 2009 Esmark team was no better than SHAHA , PREDS,.....  and why the hell are we driving/paying all this money?  My guess is it will just be a long drive and a lor of money for a similar team.  Makes no sense. 

On 3/11/2024 at 11:26 AM, dazedandconfused said:

Huh, how about that? The team that was too good for Western PA hockey wasn't the best team in Western PA?

Mid-State will provide a fine representation at Nationals.

That 14u Icemen team had a great run.  They went 20 games straight without a loss before that loosing to the Renegades in Mid Ams. They beating a team 6-3 that was ranked in the 50's AAA the weekend before Mid Ams.  A couple weeks before that the beat the Badgers 7-0.  They won their first Mid AM game 11-0 against Mt Lebo and the 2nd 5-0 against North Pitt who lost to the Badgers in the PAHL championship game.  That's just how it goes sometimes when it is just one game.  The 2009 Pens lost to a team ranked in the 60's earlier in the season.  It happens.  Unfortunately, it ended the run.  Would playing in PAHL been better for them?  I don't think looking at those scores.  Driving to NJ to play AHF probably didn't make the most sense either though as it is similar ranked competition. 

Playing an independent schedule probably would have made the most sense but it is tuff for the tweener teams to get games sometimes. Preds, Vengeance, SHAHA, and Icemen should have been playing each other but teams are to worried about the ranking.  It's a shame.

On 2/27/2024 at 9:52 AM, Saucey said:

Theoretically the elite are at Pens. No way Icemen can make that claim. No matter, when teams are 'evenly' sorted for the weekend the wanna bes are on the outside looking in, even the PPE players.

See this is the problem with hockey. 

"Theoretically" a lot of people may not want to pay for or have the funds to pay for Excel, Pens, and North Catholic as you would probably pay about $30,000+ for the season. Some people may not want to run their kids 50 minutes both directions to play for Pens. Your top 5-6 players and maybe goalies at Pens are possibly at another level but after that most of the other players are interchangeable with the top players from the other high level local teams.  That's why it shouldn't be a free ride for certain organizations and they need to attempt to be as fair as possible.  I think Mid Am does a pretty good job.  It will never be perfect and there is always room for improvement.

The problem is stats for PIHL, AHF, and other leagues/tournaments are so far off all the time.  Shot stats are wrong, goals , assists points, shg ppg, ,.....  Kids get mad, parents get mad, leagues here about it.  Until they actually make a real attempt to get them correct, why bother.  PIHL parents constantly complain.

On 12/2/2023 at 6:36 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

34 days to the first scheduled league games!  Will it actually get off the ground?  What are the odds?  50/50, 25/75.

Will the con-man be the demise of the Pittsburgh team?  Could it survive with someone else running the team?

Maybe Danner should take it over and show us all how to run it!  

Will the league fold before the Pittsburgh team?  So far it looks like 16 committed teams!

Who is the Coach of the Pittsburgh team?  

Would the best Beer League team in SWPA beat the River Monsters?

Can you tell I am bored this morning?

 

A decent Men's league team smoked them in a scrimmage at UPMC I believe before their big signing.  

Honestly, If the guys playing are enjoying it why not.  Let them have their fun.  It's funny, there is a pro dek hockey league I never knew about until recently.  It's great guys are still playing and having fun.  I wouldn't want to be the person funding it though.  

23 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

If you take out Pens elite in every one of these brackets, and Pens elite and Esmark in 18U, looks like you would have some pretty competitive local hockey.  Especially at 16U and 14U.  Also in general tiers don't seem to matter.  Sorry - had to use my lunch break.  

Been saying that for years.  Would be a great league of 6-8 teams.  Because of egos I don't think it would ever happen. They are all pretty close.  Call it the PHF (Pittsburgh Hockey Federation).  It will never happen.  

3 minutes ago, Duster19 said:

I am seeing the Icemen 18U “AAA” team ranked 32nd in Tier 2….below all of the AA teams and just above the A teams.

1-7 record.  14 GF.  51 GA. 
 

I feel bad for the kids.  Billed as AAA but really A Major.  Paying a lot of money to lose and be so lopsided in games.  But if they are happy and it’s their money, so have at it.

the icemen are known for saying they “AAA” when in reality AA at best but mostly A level hockey.  The facts speak for themselves. 

 

 

 

They should have just played AA.  Not sure why teams just won't do that.  You have some tweener teams that would dominate AA so they are damned if they do damned if they don't.  If those teams list AAA that's fine.  If you are not a top AA team then just list AA and forget the AAA.  Compete for something and have a good time.