Clonbur

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I wonder if Clonbur will be happy now that the Vipers will have to find a new home or cease to exist?

It's not about me.  It's about the kids and the benefits of playing the great sport of Hockey.  If the Vipers made decisions in the best interest of Hockey and the Kids, they wouldn't be in this position.  A landlord doesn't evict good tenants.  

15 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

You almost appear to have a quietly vested interest in this AHF takeover.

Competition is good, but monopolies are not.

Just the way the PPE arrival made the sport far more cut throat and created crazier parents so too will this at the Tier 2 level.

 

I don't think much will change.  Every rink in W. PA is currently privately owned and "for profit".  All current tournaments are "for profit".  I would imagine that they would want to get as many kids playing the sport as possible.  There are many more opportunities for them to make it more affordable for kids to play.  I don't see how prices would raise to the point that it would deter kids from playing the sport.  It's obvious that this has not happened in the Philly Market.

Tier 2 and 3 will always be competitive regardless. 

16 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Can someone explain this drama to the rest of us? 

Please read my previous post many months ago.  The writing was on the wall.  The Viper Board is toxic and drove many away from Pittsburgh Ice.  It only makes sense for Pittsburgh Ice to partner with a program that promotes hockey in a positive light.

@AMR24  You must not have read any of my previous posts or your interpretation on my comments is completely off.  I get no joy from the Viper's failures.  Never once have I or will I call anyone out by name or call people names.  I've never had any issues with anything that has happened on the ice.  My son had great coaches the entire time and we've made wonderful friendships with many great families.  My issue is with THE BOARD.  Their decisions have ruined an opportunity for my son and others.  Yet, they continue to blame others for their failures.  

16 hours ago, forbin said:

I see on their site that the Vipers aren’t fielding 10U or 12U teams, but the Viper Stars are….what’s the story here? 

They chased everyone away... hence "Viper's Demise", the original thread.  The 10u and 12u stars coach even left/fired (depends on how you interpret "pay decrease").  If you sign up today your kid could be a member of a AA program!!  

14 hours ago, AMR24 said:

You exhaust me. And nothing I say changes your opinion. You just skirt around with your accusations. And I’m done trying to converse with you. But I would like to clarify 2 points:

1. Posey was not chased out. He priced himself out. When the board pushed back on a line item he became upset. They were against raising costs any more than necessary due to rising ice costs. Both sides met several times with out an agreement. He choose to leave. End of story. 
 

2. I think you have forgotten what NON PROFIT means. You continue to say “money hungry”. We do not see a dime. What comes in goes out by the end of the season. There is no profit. We are VOLUNTEERS. I did not get paid for any of the hours I put in for trying to help fix Posey’s mess last week. I pushed aside work for my paid job to help. I continued to pitch in even when I’m already overwhelmed with my oldest graduating and throwing his party and getting him prepared to leave for college. We are not all self-serving, money hungry parents. We really do have the kid’s best interest in the for front. Posey leaving does not affect my child in any form or fashion. He’s on the Viper’s end and his team is secure. I could have washed my hands and said, “not my monkey, not my circus” but my concern is making sure that the kids were affected by this in the least possible way. There are several of us working hard on this even though our kids have no ties to Posey.

You speak of ethics and what’s good for the sport but scoff at it when it’s demonstrated. There’s nothing anyone can do to help you see past your haze of anger. 

You are not a NON-PROFIT organization.  You are Not-for-profit, big difference.  You also have paid employees and board members.  It sounds like they sit back and let you do all the work.  I am sure the Aviators will appreciate your hard work.

On 6/3/2022 at 10:31 PM, fafa fohi said:

Well said -I have had zero connection with this organization however here you are, trying to make a difference.  good on you.  Every org has its deadwood douchebags that need to be weeded out - every single one.

My guess is thirty years from now  @Clonbur will be holding court in a wheel chair boring his grandkids to death with war stories about the misgivings of NHAHA and how he was the profit and truth-teller of the organization, all the while abandoning it many years ago but talking about it as if he still had skin in the game.

Everything I stated became true and is true.  My skin in the game is the friends and families that are still being misled by this unethical organization.  They begged, pleaded and bribed many players to stay/come back.  Then they chase the coach out.  (I am not for or against Posey, he never coached my kid).  They are money hungry and no good for hockey.  Call me what you want behind your keyboard, you sound like a tough guy.  I will continue to refrain from name calling as I always have.  I will always side with ethics and what's good for the sport.  

I'm not a coach.  Never claimed to be.  Posey's resume (like him or not) will be hard to beat.  He was a major reason why most of the kids stayed with the Stars.  When you sell a product that includes a qualified coach and then you don't provide one...  who's fault is that?  Who suffers?  NHAHA needs to point their finger at themselves (which they never do).  I'm not the reason the program failed.  I noticed the poor leadership 4 years ago.  

I honestly hope someone would turn it around.  Unfortunately it will not be the current leadership.  They wrote their own script and they are paying the price.  Nobody else is to blame but themselves.  It saddens me as so many good families are now suffering from their inability to lead.  They have to deal with broken promises as the board has deceived them once again.  I'm sure they will make sure everyone that signed their financial commitment pays in full while they provide a much less qualified coach.   Sad all around and horrible for hockey.  

Hmmmm.... Posey fired/resigned.  No Viper 12u or 10u teams??  But the Board is still "doing their best".  

53 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Until there is split season in Pittsburgh, it's really a bad idea to promote and hold high school weekend tournaments.  Weekends are for youth teams around these parts.   Let the kids and parents enjoy their AAA, independent, and PAHL teams.  Stay in your swim lane.

You should change "Deep Thoughts" to "Debbie Downer"  (jk)

I could tell you why, but I would get censored again.

30 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Here you have a board member that knows specific facts about one team in the organization and seems to know about them all.  How can anyone dispute the fact that NHAHA isn't trying to do what's best for the kids. At the end of the day records do not matter as much as growth of the players and ultimately the team.  Seems to me that parents who complain more often than not didn't get their kid placed on the team they wanted.  I think we should ask some kids from that 06 team if they would do anything different. I have no idea but sometimes adversity makes you stronger and wanting a challenge shows the dedication of the kids.  Are people who complain about there ranking more concerned about wins and losses? Maybe they would have liked them to play A major gold and win the championship.  Would that have validated the team?

You must be drinking the Viper cool aide.  People are not leaving because of not making teams or the coaches or the ice time (maybe a small percent but that's everywhere).  They are leaving from the continued (4 years and counting) poor decisions from the board.  The board should review who started in their program and who has moved on.  This kind of mass movement does not happen at other locations.  The Board will use lines like "grass is not greener" and "maybe you should volunteer more"....  these lines are used on previous head coaches.  They also have Board Members who are leaving each year.  Count the number of coaches that have left.  You can have good intentions and be on 100 boards but data doesn't lie.  They need new leadership and soon.  Black Bear is going to pull that rug from underneath them.  I know it's hard to swallow for those who still think they are "doing their best".  

2 minutes ago, forbin said:

So you were specifically looking for A Major it sounds. Isn't that decision made based on PAHL placement games and not at the time of tryouts? How was it determined that the next team available to your son would be A Minor without playing any games? I'm not trying to belittle your decision to change organizations at all, I'm just wondering why you think it was predetermined as it sounds you do. 

 

It was definitely not the only reason.  Unfortunately it's not always as simple as you put it.  Viper Stars is a AA program.  They were going to get placed into AA if they are competitive at that level or not.  They need to market and make their $$.  PAIHL also plays the #'s game to make sure the teams have so many in each level.  Plus.... If they didn't make AA then we would be paying AA prices as Stars which is more than regular Vipers with minimal difference in ice time.  Do you set your kid up to fail?  Don't you want your kid (or every kid) to play at the correct skill level?  They want to money.... they don't care about the kids.

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

Whoever may be left on the board answer to Kosick and Posey.

Esmark will be fine, Viper Stars maybe too but it will be very interesting to see which of these folks is correct regarding the Vipers PAHL based teams.

35 minutes ago, forbin said:

Curious as to why you word it as being "forced" into AA Stars? 

Because my kid is not a AA player and neither was 1/2 the team they accepted at the time.   Next competition level was A minor.  All other talent left for greener pastures.

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

If it is so bad, I would have expected some others who shared your experience to come on here to share your complaints. If you are so worried about it why don't you run for a board position?  There are always unhappy people who complain but aren't willing to be part of a solution.  So where are you now that it is much greener? I admire the people who are willing to spend their time with these youth organizations even if they get a small stipend that hardly pays for their time and effort.

1.  I never knew about this site until about a month ago.  I doubt any of those who left know about this site nor care to post.  It's not going to change anything and neither will my post.  It's unfortunate that the members of the board still think they are doing a good job when the organization is crumbing around them. 2.  I learned very quickly that the decision makers are the top 3-4 who get the stipend, they have kids in Esmark or no longer in development levels, and this board doesn't have open elections (you are invited by other board members) aka not a democratic process.  3.  Doesn't matter where we are.  We needed to leave so that my child had more choices and placed in the proper skill level.  His choices before we left were to be forced into AA Stars or A minor 3.  All of the other talent left the organization the year prior.  If I went to any other PAHL organization in the area we would be in greener pastures.  4.  I do above my fare share of volunteerism to all organizations my kids are involved with.  

20 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Awesome response.  You are not hiding behind a screen name throwing unwarranted jabs.  I hope he responds to you privately and is able to discuss his grievances.  From what I have heard the Vipers are a great organization working for all the kids!  Through trying times with the new rink owners!

I've never hid.  I've said my piece to the board members when we went there.  The Vipers even have board members leaving for other organizations this year.  You would think that would wake up some of them.  It is run by a few that now collect a stipend that they refuse to relinquish.  They aren't doing it for the kids.  I look forward to another organization moving into PICE. 

21 hours ago, AMR24 said:

Add to the fact that very few ppl volunteer their time on the board or to coach. It’s so easy to sit in the cheap seats to critique. And let’s not forget parents/coaches/board members who leave in a huff because their child did not make the team THE PARENT thought they should make. Really leaves the rest of the volunteers in a bind, don’t take think. 
And, yes, I am on the board. I play a small role but it still takes up a mass amount of my time. And I can honestly tell you that the board works towards doing what’s best for the children who play there. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. Do we strive to be better? Of course. Is there room for improvement? Always. @Clonbur, if you’d like to sit down and have a talk about your apparent negative experience with the Vipers/board, I’m always willing to have an adult conversation.

If you are on the Board... you should resign.  You are not doing anything to help the organization.  You have years of bad decisions.  We left a few years ago.  I went to a board meeting to address issues and it was a joke.  I heard the same "the grass isn't greener comment" which is you mantra.  It is greener.  Much much greener.  The board does not do what's best for development.  I've witnessed 80 kids on one sheet of ice, board member kids get put on better teams above their skill level, teams being forced to play down because they don't want to go "Stars" and pay more money for the same amount of Ice and instruction, 80 kids in an ADM program 4 years ago and I can only name 8 that are still skating for the Vipers.  You are now on your 4th year of mass exodus.  RESIGN.  You are doing no favors to anyone.  

They all survived.  I don't think the Vipers have a chance with this board at the helm.  They seem to be purposefully chasing people away.

Another year.... another mass exodus.  This has been going 4 years in a row.  When will the board resign to save the organization from imminent peril?