LGP13

Curious about this as well. Wasn't personalized, "first invitees taken, limited spots!" Anyone have input or trust my intuition?

40 minutes ago, Macky85 said:

Based on everything that has transpired at Alpha and the merger of SCIR/PV, I can't see how their prices aren't going up. With the other organizations that played out of there now playing elsewhere or being absorbed, Alpha will likely raise their rates which will trickle down to the teams still calling it home. Combine that with the reality of year over year cost increase, the Tier 2 program fees have to increase. 

I hope they don't, so they can stay competitive with the other nearby organizations! As was already stated, if their mixed year fees increase much more, are you really getting what you're paying for?

Do organizations typically wait until after tryouts to post their upcoming season fees? I've previously not paid much attention.

Little information is being shared with families. 

No, they are usually common knowledge before tryouts as it is one of the main deciding factors. If it isn't, then there is a huge red flag.

1 hour ago, Elitedaddy said:

The 2010 Pens team didn’t look top tier even though they won. Perhaps it wasn’t their best effort. They won a game 2-0 and another was one pass away from being tied 3-3 going into the third. That team is the most vulnerable for 14u. A team with size and one that passes well will beat them. They had one game that presented an expected outcome. 

Outscoring the next team in your bracket by 6 goals, only giving up 4 goals in 4 games and having a +17 goal differential seems okay...

How'd the team that "impressed" you do?

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

Have Mid-Am dev camp tryout invites been sent?

Yes.

8 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

When you were officiating did you ever get an evaluation? Just curious?

No, I helped ref adult leagues for my local rink like 15 yrs ago.

3 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Care to share where you found the info you were looking for?

I left an email with PGM off Alpha's site. They handled the scheduling.

I emailed the officiating director for MidAm.

And I called and left a message officiating advancement director for USA Hockey.

Probably won't get anywhere, but worth a shot.

7 minutes ago, TheRightCall said:

You lost everyone when you resorted to calling out someone by name. Since you know so much about the game, step up and get your ref credentials next year. You can show everyone how it is to be done. Wait, we will get the "I am too busy" excuse. I am sure Livebarn shows you as such a respectful person on the bench.

I have ref'd for like 4-5 years. Don't do anymore because I coach and my job pays me enough I don't need the 60$ spending money.

I don't care if I lost anyone or not. I'm making people aware. Also, I came here asking questions about standards and what the procedures are for quality control.

Now that I've debunked your assumptions, now what?

I was being respectful, you won't know that though because the next excuse will be that you can't hear what is being said when I ask for explainations.

Your just a troll and mad I called out one of your fellow officials for being a shitty ref. I get it, you don't want that to be the norm. Next thing you know everyone is on here blasting every officials' name. I understand your frustration and how you want to be defensive, bottom line is treat people with respect and don't just show up to collect your 75$, maybe explain to kids why calls are made or what you saw. Basically, don't be an elitist jerkoff because you have the power to make calls and throw people out. 

I'm done with replying here as I found the information I was looking for. Have a great day!

13 hours ago, TheRightCall said:

Figured you would respond with something like this. Clown. 

I responded like this or ignored your post because it serves no purpose. My post has questions and facts that happened. Every word of your post is false or an assumption, why waste my time defending myself because you are butthurt that I called out a ref for having a bad game?

I don't know about you, but at my job I have to answer to someone if I don't perform or do my job to my company's standards. 

12 minutes ago, TheRightCall said:

What a classless post by another angry parent trying to live vicariously through his kid. Calling out an official while hiding behind a message board handle, nice. Who are you to question a call? A missed call? Gimme a break. If you are such a knowledgable hockey person, why not start officiating so you can give back to the game. You would most likely no be able to handle even a 10U B game.

Lol okay bud

What are the standards that referees are held to? 

I agree that most of the time refs are just doing their job and allowing the kids to enjoy playing the game they love to play. I also agree with (for the most part) refs could really careless who wins and loses and they don't go into games thinking positively or negatively about the teams.

I am however curious as to what standards they are held to? They have the power to throw players, fans, coaches out of games that people are paying money to attend or provide to their kids. What about when the refs are terrible? Nothing? Deal with it? 

I had one of the worst refs referee my game. Missed calls, weak calls against, goal called that clearly hit the post (overwrote the other ref and made the call from center ice), and yes I got thrown out for arguing the calls after dealing with it for 2 periods. It is humorous because I knew this ref was going to be terrible because he ref'd adult league games back when I played and was terrible at them as well. Now all the info gave above, I would like to know how a guy that seemly likes to get his rocks off on agitating young kids instead of talking to them and explaining infractions. Is power hungry about the fact he can throw people out and affect games instead of just ref'ing them fairly, and now seemly has the ability to keep coaches from coaching their teams is allowed to just be his word is law with no recourse?

Normally, I laugh at posts like this and write them off, but I felt like I owed everyone to get it out there.

2 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Since blackbear moved in, I think a new bar has been set for ice cost locally.  

I agree, but what ice costs and what organizations charge for season tuition are two different things. That was more what I was referring to with my comments.

22 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said:

In a message to the SCIR members, it was clarified that the non-profit organization that currently runs SCIR will remain intact and will just have a new DBA. You hit the nail on the head, no other PAHL organizations at the rink to compete with.  That is the advantage.

 

Disclosure: I have a player at SCIR

 

I'm glad to hear they said things will remain intact for the SCIR teams. I'm hoping that things stay unchanged for the teams and your fees don't increase.

1 hour ago, forbin said:

https://www.scirhockey.org/february-news/
 

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

1 hour ago, HereForTheChirps said:

There are certainly good parent/coaches out there, some of which I would much rather have coaching my kid than some of these paid coaches with the side training expectation mentioned.  Some of these guys are in it for the wrong reasons.  Many of the parent/coaches have a great hockey background and are not in it for the money, just the love of the game and wanting to help their kid and his/her teammates with their knowledge.

The "parent coach" discussion always makes me laugh... don't get me wrong there are also parent coaches out there that know very little about the game and just are trying to help, but it's like someone that is good at hockey, knows how to coach, cares about the kids, has considerable hockey knowledge is all of a sudden null and void once they have a kid?! 

I get it, everyone is worried that kids will be treated "unfairly", "favored", etc. if a parent is behind the bench. If anything, I probably gave/give my kids less leniency when I coached them. I know that isn't always the case, but nothing ever is. So "parent coach", "non-parent coach", who gives a shit. Can the guy/girl coach and treat all the players accordingly? That's all that should matter.

2 hours ago, Jkersman01 said:

Quote

and started heckling him

Great games this season, both of the girls on the team are great players.  Best of luck with your future opportunities.

20 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I might need to see the livebarn on this one. Give us a date and time. 

I'm sure @Jkersman01 would love to get you that information to corroborate the validity of their claims.

9 minutes ago, forbin said:

10 year olds are not allowed to ref peewee games…..

I didn't check his birth certificate. 

A significantly smaller sized kid was trying to break up 3 larger sized kids beating on another kid. Better?

14 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Sounds like you might be one of the crazy parents if you are defending that kind of behavior from adults at a peewee game ?

I think defending bad behavior and pointing out that what an anonymous person said on a public forum "might" be skewed to their PoV are two different things. Especially when they are a parent from the other side.

I am a parent, and I wasn't at the game that we lost so I can't speak to any claims there. But I was at the game where a player from Mt. Lebo engaged with parents in front of his coach and they did nothing. A 12-year-old kid, yelling obscenities at parents that are spectating the game... I was also at the game were said kid again engaged parents in the stands after a loss and still nothing. Again, not defending the behavior of the parents yelling back at the kid, better to just ignore and laugh like I did. What control does a coach have over his team and players that he lets them engage with spectators? As far as the parents getting thrown out on two occasions, I wasn't at the game that was a loss, so I don't know what happened. The 2nd game, a parent of a kid who repeatedly got punched in the face by 3 players until he was visibly bleeding (see it from the stands) while a 10-year-old ref tried to get three 12-year-olds off him... Ya, you might have to throw me out of that game too if it was my kid getting punched in the face. 

Again, victim mentality. We did nothing wrong and the parents were savages!!!! 

58 minutes ago, Jkersman01 said:

Good timing- was just checking out the board when I saw this. They do have a nice group of players- a good team for sure. They might be very well building a solid program. My comment had nothing to do with the players, coaches, or organization for that matter. That's why I limited it to a specific team.

As to the parents this year, I wasn't going to get into details and hoping a passing comment would be enough of a contribution to this discussion, but since you asked and want support because you might be challenging my statement (and this is all first hand knowledge)-

-Yelling and taunting a kid from another team on the ice during a game, as he walked off, and making comments to him while he walked through the lobby

-Screaming at their team to "take out #..." when they were losing

-Having a parent, during the handshake line, yell "girls shouldn't be playing hockey" to the 2 girls on the opposing team in a game they lost

-Parents, on 2 occasions in just 3 games I saw, got kicked out of the stands for going at the refs (verbally)

 

My point of "taking the cake" is that at 11-12 years old, I've never seen parents, during and after a game, taunting and interacting with the opposing team's players like they did. 

Holy victim mentality... guess you shouldn't expect anything less from Mt. Lebo. Sorry you couldn't buy your wins.

I have been taking my son to the tryouts every year regardless of the outcome. He too, pushes for PPE every year. It is good for kids to have goals and try to achieve them if they make it or not. So, from a development of a player/person standpoint you are teaching your kid to make goals and work toward them even if you never achieve them, it instills the work ethic to strive for something. This of course, is if it is in fact your kid asking to tryout and it is HIS goal to make the team.

From a logical standpoint, I also have no qualms doing it every year because it is roughly 50$ an ice slot against the "best" kids in the area. It gives my kid a measuring stick, is a reasonability priced ice session with and against high skilled players, and if nothing else gives him a leg up for the next tryout he does for whichever team he ends up making it on.

Win/win/win/win. for $170? I'll do that every time.

Edit: Spelling

10 hours ago, forbin said:

SCIR, Vengeance, Aviators, Vipers/Stars, Steel City Selects, Young Foxes, Fox Chapel, Deer Lakes, Shaler, Central Catholic, Duquesne, and Pitt  plus learn to play, figure skating and public skate all ion 3 sheets of ice. I do not pity the rink scheduler and the organization schedulers that’s for sure.

I don't believe they have a contract in place yet for ice at Alpha. This flyer is just for tryouts which they secured ice to perform at Alpha. I feel for the Vipers and their situation, but if they don't have a "home" yet and are holding tryouts somewhere that might not be where they play out of, that's pretty misleading and unscrupulous. They should note on their tryout flyer that Alpha is where they are holding tryouts, but practices and home rink might be in Belmont or some other non-BB rink that they haven't secured yet.

1 hour ago, zam said:

I'd imagine if they own multiple rinks in a region and ice utilization drops they will consolidate all the teams and programs into other rinks and shut one down.  They won't sell it to someone else to compete with them as an ice rink. It will become a Christian church or a YMCA like the last couple rinks in the area that couldn't find a buyer.

AAU is the work around for fielding full ice mite teams.  The programs that compete as sanctioned USA Hockey teams aren't going to compete full ice. They will spin off a separate program that roster AAU.  And they will claim no affiliation.  They are the Pittsburgh Icemen when they compete at USA hockey events, and they have a separate Pittsburgh Snowmen jersey for when they compete Full ice mite.  (Before you all go look for Tryout dates for the Snowmen, it's not a real thing, just an example) lol

 

 

I've refrained from responding to this nonsense, but since it is gaining traction, I felt like I'd add my 2 cents.

This is criminal all the way around. First there are people who are taking advantage of parents who don't know any better, and then there are parents who actually think that full ice mites are a great idea and support this travesty. USA hockey revamped the way they train and grow our youth. If anyone is a coach, they have seen the CEP classes that basically explain how USA sucked at development, so they paid experts to examine Canada, Sweden, Russia, all the other great hockey countries and see what they were doing differently than us. It comes down to the size of the rink/nets and play surface, which effects the puck touches and development of the kids. Full ice minimizes the amount of puck touches the kids get per game/practice, which in turn slows or hinders their development. Basically, have small kids on a huge playing surface that takes the "game" out of the game. I won't even go down the path of goalies and having 3-foot players in a 4x6 net.

I feel like most everyone in here is on the same page with this and understand why full ice mites isn't optimal at all. The people that are selling this "product" should be ashamed of themselves and the parents that think it is a great idea to "make their kid better" deserve what they are getting. Overpriced experience, with less development, and absolutely no upside.

12 hours ago, Jkersman01 said:

As you guessed I have no idea what they have. But like Pucks said, I made a rather fundamental assumption that if PIHL had paperwork that approved this player, we wouldn’t have gotten to where we are now, and that the hearings would have produced this and montour would be just fine.  If PIHL does have such paperwork, wow, this is an even bigger mess and Montour is entirely a victim. I put the odds of that rather low, though, based on getting to where we are now.

I don’t know that group personally, but have practiced law for a while. When representing a plaintiff in a civil suit, especially such as here were the fee is presumably either pro bono or hourly (so it’s not tied to percentages of damages), attorneys take cases for any number of reasons. I think it is unfair that just because what might very well be a reputable firm took this case, means there is a proverbial smoking gun. 

Yes, but what would be PIHL's angle? What or why could they possibly want to screw Montour out of playing in the playoffs? They really have no reason to DQ Montour unless they believe that the rules of their organization that all these teams play in weren't followed, and the only reason they would do that is to protect the other teams/kids that play in their organization from getting cheated somehow.

All this said I do feel bad for the kids at Montour. Adults ruining it for kids... Apparently, they have a strong team. Would they still have to of had to move up a division to AA if all the paperwork was correct and the kid was approved to play? Curious how they would have done playing all season up a division if they had to. If they wouldn't have had to and could have stayed at A with the kid on the team and the only issue here is the paperwork that wasn't properly done... then wow. Really feel bad for the kids.

32 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

The kid in question is not here on a education visa through USA hockey  - he’s from a different state.

I assumed, from everyone saying he played at Esmark. My mistake. Most of what I said is still relevant.

17 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Do any of the Black team kids make Gold the next year?

 

Sometimes.