zam

What a glorious morning! Happy to see this thread is back to beating the dead horse?  

The back up goalie went 7-3 against the crap teams. No way to predict how he would have done against good teams.  Actually 3 losses against playoff teams, so there ya go

The hearing was not a full trial with both sides presenting all the evidence. It was emergency request for an injunction mere hours after the paper work was filled. I'm sure PIHL didn't have time to put together an actual case.  So anything the judge wrote was based on a very basic understanding of the case. The only thing he was asked to do in the short time he spent listening to to case and writing a verdict was decide if he should postpone the playoffs.

My dude lives in his teammate's bedroom, for maybe a total of 150 to 200 days. iE, the length of the hockey season.  His family doesn't live here or pay taxes or pay tuition.  It's not like the dad lost his job at the quarry and had to suddenly move here to work at the steel mill. He doesn't live here. What if instead of his teammates room he was staying at the Hampton Inn? They sent him here to play hockey.  He would never be here if not for hockey. 

I'm not asking about loop holes in the rules or how the rules are technically written... I'm asking does it seem fair?  Or did this situation open the door for even worse incidents? Any 8th grader that wants to attend a better high school or play for a better team just has to go sleep at his friends house for the season.

Also good to see the lawyers and PIHL didn't completely empty the Montour coffers. They were still able to afford the JV playoffs. A "play in" game in the tier 3 loser bracket as a matter of fact.

Looks like 14u and 15u PPE, only had 13 skaters in the lineup?  Did they have injuries or is that typically all they roster at those ages? 

Read the evidence they attached. The letter from pihl says the Billet and transfer for athletic intent isn't the issue.  They found that the kid isn't a resident of the district.  And there is not much disputing that.  

14 minutes ago, Ynot02 said:

“Thanks for waiving the fines PIHL. We’ll now use it to sue you…”

4 minutes ago, Stackthepads said:

Don’t worry, all of montour’s bogus season fines will more than cover the cost.  Put those car wash fundraisers and Easter candy sales on hold- you will be fine.

Go read the evidence, piihl waved that $2,500 fee that would have gone along with the forfeitures. 

Honestly this reminds me of a situation a few years ago at work. I had a good relationship with a guy we did numerous projects together. There was a financial discrepancy/honest mistake on a job we were working on. We had made a verbal agreement to square it up with a different job. Unfortunately before that occurred he tragically died. We didn't document it and he didn't tell his partner. So I was out a decent sum of money. I didn't bother to go to court because it wasn't documented and I would have been laughed out of the room, Especially if my "evidence" amounted to a text message that said "hey Joe give me a call in the morning we'll talk about that discrepancy." 

But they "let him step on the ice" argument!

How about the "follow the rules" argument??? It's up to the team to know and follow the rules. It's the job of PIHL to enforce the rules.  It doesn't matter when the rules are broken or when you are caught.  There are plenty of instances in sports when awards and championships are vacated afterwards because they later found rules had been broken. Saying "we would have won anyway" doesn't work.

One would think the team manager should be somewhat familiar with the rules. At some point she would have came across the rule that says a player must live with their parents in the district.  And then think "hmm I got a kid living in my house that isn't mine, and their parents are in Ohio" 

I still think that kid should be paying tuition, not really fair the taxpayers of the school district are paying for someone living here part time without parents residing, working or paying taxes here. But that's a different issue.

Btw. Also looks like they handed the coach another one game suspension for failng to scratch names off a list and count to 20.  So they are either incompetent, don't follow rules, don't pay attention to rules, or don't think rules pertain to them.

"Nobody cares this much about high school hockey, he just wanted to play some games with his classmates and make some friends."

Seems like someone cares enough to file 50 pages motion and go to court with a team of lawyers. Just sayin.

It does appear that family "goes above and beyond for the team" they brought in a goalie and gave him as place to stay in order to make the team competitive. 

Fold the team, ban the goalie, let the playoff bound teams hold a draft for all remaining Montour players. Problem solved.

Heard last night during the 96th hour of deliberations the jury ordered in some Big Shot Bobs.  One juror was firm in his resolve for Primantis and threatened a hunger strike if he didn't get a cheesesteak.  Also overnight, the Jury summoned the Attorneys and asked to examine the goalie's blocker and Birth certificate. Can you read anything into that? It sounds like they are close to a verdict and doing their due diligence.

Hey Avonworth Fan, do you have any room in your house to Billet some defensemen next year? Looks like all your boys are graduating. That's how you can show yourself to be a true fan go hang a sign up in New Ken, "defensemen wanted, free room and board"

1 minute ago, Danner27 said:

Montour had a membership meeting last night - they are flooding this board on purpose hoping to burying the relevant posts. 

Did they have a 50/50 raffle to raise money for JV playoffs?

On the PIHL registrar page (I assume the organization registrar should be quite familiar with) there is a several page form pertaining to this exact situation.  It asks about 20 questions, such as has the players living situation changed in the last 6 months? Is the player living with someone that is not their family? Did they move to the area for any athletic intent either entirely or partially?

It needs to be signed off by like six people in the organization in school.  Assume it is then approved by somebody a PIHL...

Has anybody heard if they completed this form?

1 hour ago, Yalldumb said:

Didn’t answer my question of, if it was good then, why isn’t it good now, and also know what your talking about because the attorney is not any of our players parents

I'm just speculating here, but perhaps the league trusts that each team's coach, manager and registrar is truthful and accurate in the paperwork they submit.  It looks like they have about 50 varsity teams, 50 JV teams and 50 middle school teams each with 10 to 20 players. So is it on PIHL to go do background checks on all 2500 players? Knock on doors and make sure they actually live there? Check birth certificates? 

The threat of fines and forfeiture is there to keep the teams honest. It's the same consequence that keeps a team from bringing in a college player and putting him in someone else's jersey and playing in a game. The refs aren't checking ID and running DNA tests before the games, they trust the adults have followed the rules.

Hey next time you get pulled over for speeding, tell the cop, "you didn't catch me speeding Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday why is it suddenly not alright today?"   Better Yet, Get your attorney to tell that to the judge.

1 hour ago, Yalldumb said:

He is transferred -he attends the school, daily 

I think the fancy word "Billet" has people confused on here. Let's just call it what it is, a six month sleep-over.  He's here sleeping over his teammates house. He's not from Montour, he's not a resident, he likely goes back to his parents house on the weekends, holidays, winter break, spring break. As soon as the his Amateur season is over he likely goes back to his real permanent residence and school there.  Maybe he stops getting along with this teammates family and next year he comes back and he moves in with a teammate in Moon.  So then does he just get to go to school in Moon and start playing for Moon because that's the house he's staying at?

Does this explain why they have a rule for this situation?

35 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Just heard PIHL let those Montour parents in that hearing last night and it got crazy.

Why would PIHL let those parents in there.

 Montour is facing.

$2500 fine and they would have to forfeit 10 games he played that makes them out of the playoffs.

Also if they lose this case Montour would have to cancel JV playoffs don’t have enough money for playoffs ice time.

Plus they will fight this in court attorney already lined up. You have $$$ there High School Hockey Clubs don’t have this kind money.

Why hasn’t Montour AD step in ?

 

The JV team with 3 wins this year won't be able to afford playoff ice?  Oh my, cue up the Jim Mora clip...

They should just expand the Co-op division playoffs and let the varsity team play there. 

40 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

I don't doubt that at all.  It really would be a shame if the board ruined it for the players who likely could have been okay without pulling this stunt.

Tough to know, it doesn't look like the other goalie has any wins against top teams but I didn't do a scientific analysis. And I'm sure that's also a coincidence.

So the defense's argument is the deceased commissioner, unilaterally and without anybody else's knowledge granted eligibility to this little known 9th grader? 

Was his death suspicious? Sounds like Avonworth people had a motive. {Sarcasm}

The problem with allowing "billet players" in general is the opportunity for corruption.  Even if this particular case was completely clean of any motives other than giving a kid a place to stay it just looks bad and opens the opportunity for these things to happen in the future.  

The fact he ends up in a school district with a shared teammate on a team that just happens to need a goalie just looks bad. Especially when it's probably an hour away from the rink he's here to play and train at?? Yes Of course it could be a coincidence.

But you could envision a wealthy booster somewhere offering up a free place to stay for kids to come here and play as long as they agree to play for the local school team as well. At that point you might as well allow a kid from Central Valley to go "billet" at his friends house or Grandma's house in Cranberry.

Somewhat unrelated question, and I never gave it consideration until this came up. Does a school district cover the cost of educating someone that is here temporarily, isn't a resident, and the parents are a resident of a completely different state? 

Hey Happy, just curious since you seem to be a Montour insider (knowing the practice habits of the third goalie) and quite defensive I noticed!! Was the billet goalie added to the roster after the release of the JV and Varsity schedules? And after Montour made an exhaustive attempt to have PIHL adjust the schedule to accommodate JV/Varsity conflicts?

Is PIHL really out to punish you, or did Avonworth just had the fortunate coincidence of not a single conflict. Hmm

Mars fielded two teams with one goalie atleast once in the last two years, maybe both.  I'd imagine they would have loved to bolster their team with a AAA goalie.  The other option would be only field a varsity or only a JV squad.  

I don't know all the details but it seems like a weak justification, "we didn't have a capable goalie". I think there are plenty of bottom dwellers that would make the argument "we don't have a capable first line center, or capable shut down Defenseman"

Maybe this happens all the time I don't know. Or maybe they make exceptions for certain cases, but just makes you wonder where they draw the line. 

I'm not familiar with the facts of the Montour goalie case. But if what was posted is accurate, how was he eligible to play?  The PIHL rules say players that move with Athletic intent are ineligible for a year. And even specifically lists Billet players as an example.

Heck additionally to that how is it the school districts responsibility to pay for a billet players education? The situation as described is basically an extended sleep over at their teammates house. Seems like you would have kids moving school districts all the time by just moving in with a friend.

Like I said I don't pretend to know any of the facts in the case. But if "they didn't have a capable goalie"  so they brought one in, certainly doesn't seem to be in the spirit of high school sports. But maybe that's how things work these days.