Stackthepads

26 minutes ago, zam said:

But they "let him step on the ice" argument!

How about the "follow the rules" argument??? It's up to the team to know and follow the rules. It's the job of PIHL to enforce the rules.  It doesn't matter when the rules are broken or when you are caught.  There are plenty of instances in sports when awards and championships are vacated afterwards because they later found rules had been broken. Saying "we would have won anyway" doesn't work.

One would think the team manager should be somewhat familiar with the rules. At some point she would have came across the rule that says a player must live with their parents in the district.  And then think "hmm I got a kid living in my house that isn't mine, and their parents are in Ohio" 

I still think that kid should be paying tuition, not really fair the taxpayers of the school district are paying for someone living here part time without parents residing, working or paying taxes here. But that's a different issue.

Btw. Also looks like they handed the coach another one game suspension for failng to scratch names off a list and count to 20.  So they are either incompetent, don't follow rules, don't pay attention to rules, or don't think rules pertain to them.

Zam bam thank you ma’am-

How do you know they failed to scratch a name and did not dress 21 players?  Insider??? 

14 minutes ago, zam said:

"Nobody cares this much about high school hockey, he just wanted to play some games with his classmates and make some friends."

Seems like someone cares enough to file 50 pages motion and go to court with a team of lawyers. Just sayin.

I promise you it wasn’t the billet kid.  

14 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

How much are there High priced attorneys charging an hour?

Where is Montour $$ coming from to pay for all this?

Tell us

I heard they sold the rights to their top middle school prospect to obtain the funds.

19 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

Yes we all know the truth. But the rules are clearly stated and laid out for everyone to read. While they might not be fair, everyone but Montour followed them. Any anger should be directed at the Montour coaches/board who either didn't understand the rules, or blatantly tried to deceive the league. The latter is the more likely scenario here by the way.

Everyone followed the rules but Montour? Did every kid on every team wear a neck guard for every game?  Isn’t that a rule?  It was clearly laid out for everyone to read.  Did you read that?  Almost every team disregarded this rule.  DQ every team!  Obviously, I am joking about the DQ.  I could care less about that but just once again pointing out the false statement of everyone else “followed the rules”.  Just be factual in your statements.  I get it- some rules are more important than others.  NOT!  The rules are the rules.  We don’t get to pick and choose which rules we follow in society.  Now had you said every team but montour followed the eligibility rules then you may have a more valid point.  I’m still going to call BS on that until I have the FACTS. 

9 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

The visas state that the foreign players are here for education, not hockey. Therefore PIHL's hands are tied on not letting them play. Which is why they make the team move up a level.

I get that- but we all know what the truth is, correct?

22 minutes ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Escaping Ukraine and Russia billeting is a little different than coming from Ohio. 

How is it different in regards to high school hockey eligibility?  Please explain.  Don’t make this political.  They are all here for the same purpose- to play AAA hockey, not high school hockey, there is no disputing that.  Again- I state the facts.  

1 hour ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Yes, from Europe, and as a result had to move up from A to AA   Maybe Montour should have moved up to AAA instead of down to A  

 

 

Someone had stated there were no other billet kids playing in the PIHL- again, inaccurate statements.

1 hour ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

 

Not at all. If it was a common thing, naming just 1 similar situation, approved by PIHL, would be easy.  16 teams made playoffs in A alone.  You”d think if it was anything other than a total anomaly, it would be easy to find just 1 other similar situation.  But that’s the thing.  It isn’t.  

16 teams made the playoffs in A???  Again- inaccurate statements.  

3 minutes ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Name one other kid in PIHL who is billeting with a family and playing on the high school team.  You can’t, because there aren’t any, because it is against the rules.  The rules that every org knows all about both in writing and in Team Manager meetings.  
If this was not a rule, it is true that not many high school teams would recruit kids to billet, although some would, but it also true that this scenario would inevitably take place just as it has unfolded in this case, where the Travel Team teammate (or their parents, talking to one another at AAA practice) suggest it: “hey, you should play on our high school team”.

Reply: “doesn’t your high school team have a goalie”.

“Yes, but he sucks”.

 “Oh, there aren’t any rules against that?”

“not sure, but we can check and find out”

both parties (Montour and those who turned them in) can be deemed to have acted “shady” or “not nice”, but only Montour  BROKE THE RULES  

 

 

Doesn’t Bishop McCort have billet kids on their team?  

3 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Then maybe they should have stuck with “that goalie” because if they did, if they made the playoffs then that means the kids earned it and would have been 100% legit.

They didn’t stick with “that goalie,” are paying for it now and are not in the playoffs.

Just saying.

fafa fooli-

maybe…maybe he should not have been approved by PIHL before the season on the official roster….maybe they should have folded their JV team since games overlapped on the same nights, maybe Scotty Bowman should not have been allowed on their bench, maybe Conner McDavid shouldn’t have snuck into a game as the 21st player that apparently played with a cloak of invisibility…lots of maybe’s.  But that’s what get these chats going, lots of maybe’s, assumptions, and hearsay with very few facts.

3 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Just saying what?  He beat a handful of other teams too.  So what is it exactly you're saying?

Exactly what I am saying is how can anyone make the assumption that montour would have missed the playoffs?  That’s what I’m just saying…

2 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

I see that part. But what about the team who followed the rules that would've been in the playoffs if the ineligible kid hadn't played and Montour had to go with a goalie who-no other way to say it- isn't as good and probably wouldn't have won enough games to make the playoffs? So screw that whole team that played within the rules because the 14 year-old "just wanted to play"? 

 

Again: Follow the rules. Don't be sneaky. If you can't do that, then don't get unraveled when it bites you in the ass. 

That goalie beat Avonworth…just saying.  

2 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

On one hand, I doubt this elite 9th grade goalie is Patrick Roy. So just make the kid ineligible for playoffs, and play on, right? "Don't screw the other kids over what the coach/manager/board did." Right? 

But it doesn't work that way. Rules are the rules, the league goes over them, they are written down clearly, you can access them. You can ask questions if you're confused. So there's no excuse, really. 

Conveniently, permission was alleged to have been given by the now-deceased leader of PIHL. Where is it in writing? No matter how old or backward or low-tech you might think this man was, I'm sure they didn't ask him at the rink if this was okay, and he nodded his head "oh, yes", and that was that. Surely there would've been a letter or email in writing. And if it really did go that way, then again shame on the coach/manager/board for not seeing that it was given in writing. 

And why is it the responsibility of other teams to point this error out on some kind of a time line? It's not. If whoever knew about it and waited until the time was right FOR THEM, frankly that's good managing and/or good coaching that would do that. Why on earth would another team point this error out early so it could be reconciled by PIHL/Montour before it became a serious issue? Why would you expect a rival team to help a cheater? 

Stop misplacing blame on to other teams, and direct your anger at the parties responsible for the situation you're in. That's the Montour coaches, manager, and board. Whining about the other teams that knew about it and let it go until now just makes everyone look like crybabies. Cheating crybabies, actually. 

 

 

You are correct- it was not Patrick Roy.  Funny thing is that if it were him, he would be fine to play because he is foreign.  From another state in the USA and not here for the purpose of playing high school hockey- nope.  BYW Definitely the best 14 year old goalie in the league.  I heard montour has a first year squirt prodigy goaltender from Buffalo that they may try to sneak in the next few years to compete at varsity.  His parents are renting an apartment in the district while they remain in Buffalo so they could prove residence for a couple years.  This conspiracy runs deep.  Beware.  Of course pucks11 already heard about this from his (not) reliable sources.

15 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

You are a very salty person to have no dog in this fight.

Stop blaming everyone except for who needs to be blamed.

Who cares if someone waited until the day before playoffs to start to bring it up. The fact is Montour cheated and got caught. Blame the coach and the parents in the organization that knew they did something wrong and just hoped they wouldn't get caught. If the parents from Montour knew what was going on with this kid then you know damn well the players knew what was going on also. Yes you want to feel bad for the kids but if any of them knew then they are just as guilty as the parents and coach for not stopping it from happening.

 

You are the only one coming up with the conspiracy theories and then wishing I'll will towards another group of INNOCENT kids.

So now it is the kids responsibility to know all the eligibility and rule intricacies of sports leagues???  Obviously you were hit in the head by 11 pucks- thus the screen name.

4 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

No worries, it was but there have been a ton of messages over the last few days. The first time the coach was supposed this season was because of an unrostered coach on the bench, then the 2nd time the coach was suspended was because he got caught with to many kids dressed for a game.

I heard the unrostered coach was Scotty Bowman.  Any truth to that?  

21 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

It was so confusing that you broke it down word for word. ? Nice try on the put down bud. ?

 

 

How about you and the other Montour parents stop blaming everyone except for who is to blame. It is actually that simple. It's not PIHL fault, it's not QV fault, it's not Avonworth fault and it's not some parent who's kid plays goalie with that goalie for a club teams fault. Place the blame where it lies and stop defending them. Yes it sucks for the kids (seniors) but it wasn't the first or second time that Montour got caught cheating this season, it was the THIRD time. This one just happen to bite them in the ass.

Montour parents?  The montour kids don’t have parents.  They were all genetically engineered Jurassic park style with the intent to one day take over the PIHL A classification.  At least that’s what I heard.

4 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

 

Probably not considering they were 6th in goals against. If you take that goalie away their goals per game go up by almost a gola and a half and drop them to 10th in the division.

It's sad that grown adults that Knew What they were doing was not right and still didn't anyways.

What are you saying pucks11?  “Their goals per game go up” if you take the goalie away?  Do you mean goals against per game?  And do you mean “still did it anyways?”  So confusing…just like all the other non-sense people THINK they know.

34 minutes ago, rock said:

obviously this is false, if everything was done legit, this thread would not have happened, and montour would be in the playoffs.   facts are facts wether you wish to believe them or not.. some of the biggest problems in todays society.. no one respects rules, no one respects authority, no one acknowledges facts.. its sad mixed up world we are living in these days..

Rock head-

if an athlete fails a drug test, do they wait to see how he performs before punishment?

if you drive intoxicated and get pulled over, do they wait until you wreck before punishment?

If an student cannot comprehend anything they are reading, do we allow them to graduate?  Ah poor example; apparently they do.  I take that one back.

The FACT that I stated was that THERE WAS NO COVER-UP.  If any coach from that league tells you that they did not know the situation from the BEGINNING, they are not being truthful.

1 hour ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Sad thing is, if you watched Montour:

played as a team

moved the puck

pretty clean, not too many cheap penalties

balanced: 11 players with at least 5 goals, 10 with at least 10 points

Also, 8 seniors who have to end their high school careers this way bc adults knowingly tried to deceive the league. 

Sad, but a good lesson.

 

Nobody tried to deceive anyone…everybody knew where the player was from the entire season, the situation was disclosed and the roster was approved. There was never any “cover-up”.  If it’s the rule, fine, but don’t say that adults were trying to pull a fast one.  EVERYONE KNEW AND WAITED UNTIL THE SEASON WAS OVER TO COMPLAIN - FACT!  And yes, the highest scoring offense in the division is being held out of the playoffs.

4 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Looks like Montour is out

What an astute observation Sherlock Holmes 

5 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

Go to the PIHL website it explains everything that you are asking.

Saying that “it does not pertain to foreign students” is not an explanation but rather a statement.  Is there something else written on the site?  Enlighten me please…

12 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

The FACTS are they had 2 previous suspensions this season and 1 was for an unrostered coach and 1 for dressing to many players. If Livebarn was their argument they could have pulled those videos and appealed the suspensions but they didn't. It doesn't matter if it was Wayne or Brett Gretzky if the player did not have the proper paperwork then Montour for the 3rd time this season deserves a suspension.

BTW Livebarn only goes back 1 month and those incidents occurred in October.

PIHL reps check the players that are dressed before each game.  What happened there?  Did they count 21 and not say anything until after the fact?  Why no forfeited game there?  Oh- probably because they only had 20.
 

Any clue as to why the rule is different for foreign students since you know all the facts and have all the answers?  I have been curious about that.  Seems a little discriminatory.  Shouldn’t it apply to all students?  I understand that there are way more foreign billeting students playing in the PIHL than American billeting kids.  Is that true or false?  Someone out there has had to have done the background checks and compare rosters in their free time.  Hit me with the info!

6 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

They may have been able to "try" and play dumb if they didn't have 2 other infractions that they were suspended for this season in using an unrostered coach and dressing to many players for a game. Those both could easily say they knew exactly what they were doing with this kid.

Pucks11, you are killing me with this mention of 2 other infractions.  You are simply looking at the suspension list on the website with no knowledge whatsoever of what truly occurred.  Both were human error, which I’m sure you know nothing about since you are obviously a perfect individual.  Fact is, the coach was rostered and fact is they did not dress too many players.  Go back and review livebarn if you like and count the number of players Odafin Tutuola.  Oh wait- maybe there is a player who strikingly resembles Connor McDavid.  Did the Oilers have a game on the same day?  Hmmmm…..suspicious.  Give me a break.

1 hour ago, PeterThePuck said:

Where is Montour AD at with all this going on.

He should pull this team from the playoffs and remove the parents in charge.

That’s the big problem with High School Hockey parents run it rough shot AD are silent don’t want bother cause its not PIAA.

As you know hockey is a club sport.  Zero school sponsorship.  Montour does not even mention ice hockey on their website under athletics.  Should they remove the parents in charge and then just fold the program?  Who do you expect to take charge?  Do other schools have an AD that is highly involved in their hockey program?  

18 minutes ago, Jkersman01 said:

By my estimation, PPE alone, for high school aged boys only; probably has 15 kids billeting. Some kids billet from only 1-2 hours away (ie johnstown) to Pittsburgh for the week only (go home on weekends) to make commute to North Catholic more doable. 

You could billet to a family 10 min down the road if you want. Maybe 2-3 days a week too! That’s why I 100% support this rule. Otherwise, you could jump from one school to another easily simply by saying you’re billeting, not ‘transferring’

PPE kids are not permitted to play high school hockey so that’s why I asked about numbers excluding them.