forbin

On 10/9/2021 at 10:07 PM, Danner27 said:

Honestly none of it matters much until 15U if your player is looking to try and make it in some sort of way - real junior hockey. What are 09’s now, peewee ???

We know. We all know this, but unfortunately for you not all of us have kids that old yet and this is a forum for discussion. Therefore discussion of younger birth years will take place. 

21 minutes ago, Saucey said:

It's just kind of funny that it is the Predators doing this. Not exactly known for their production of players.

My kids are almost done thank goodness. I just vehemently believe that if you are taking AA players out of the local league, you are exponentially increasing the cost of hockey, which hurts the growth of the sport. And not that I know you personally, Forbin, but the whole 'I just.love to travel' reason typically rings false'. Parents who tell me this also do things that suggest they are reaching for AAA. And to do your little weekend dream, you have to have a team, and there are definitely parents and kids there being sold a bunch of malarkey so you can have a whiskey sour with dads in another city. It's disingenuous and doesn't grow the game around here.

I have to have a team? I don't. But if I did it would be an independent team full talented players and like minded people. And I don't see a single thing wrong with that. Let's agree to disagree on this and that's fine.

Limited ice time, 3-4 teams sharing the ice for practice or only getting 20 minutes of full ice time per week, dad coaches who only focus on their own kid, uninformed parents who have never played hockey in their lives running the show, organizations having SIX squirt and peewee teams because they refuse to cut anyone are reasons why I look elsewhere. 

Just to play devils advocate here, there are people who spend $30k or way more a year on clothes and shoes, or hobbies like hunting and fishing, or on eating out at restaurants for God's sake so what exactly is the difference if they choose to spend it on their kid playing hockey?

I guess I'm in the minority of people here who don't mind teams going independent, mainly because I have been around and involved with PAHL for over 30 years and I can totally see why people are sick of it. I also love the traveling part of playing hockey because it's what I grew up doing. My kid loves it too. I personally would rather spend my weekend driving to NY to play 2-4 games against teams you wouldn't otherwise play, do some other "sight seeing" stuff, stay in a hotel, eat at some good local restaurants, and throw back a few whiskey sours with the other dads, than drive to Westmoreland for a 9am game on a Sunday.

Then again, everyone's lives and financially situation is different so I completely understand the other point of view. I make a comfortable living to support that type of thing without the financial stress, and I am fortunate enough to have a job where I am able to get the "honey do" list done during the week. 

Yes, all roads lead to beer league. There likely isn't a single person on this board with a child who will play hockey professionally, but the argument that it's a waste of money to play at the highest level you can is a stupid one in my opinion. A busy kid is a good kid. A kid whos traveling for hockey every weekend is likely a kid who isn't getting into trouble otherwise.

That's it. Carry on.

P.s. the younger BY Preds teams all look very strong. This trend of going independent will not stop. 

*Steps off soapbox*

15 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Is there something special about the 12 foxes?  

Not really, I just see that they haven't won a game yet, or even come close to winning one and are ranked 40th out of 42.. I wouldn't be too thrilled about it if that was my kids team. Then again they are all first year squirts and its a learning process. 

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Mark today as a day in history where many PARENT'S DREAMS were crushed because their superstar 9-10 year old's team didn't get the ranking they deserved and are now texting the coaches with practice plans and suggestions on tournaments and teams to play in order to increase their ranking.

I am guessing the 11 Vengeance parents are not happy. As well as the 12 Foxes....yikes!

1 minute ago, Saucey said:

Russian imports.

Seriously? For peewee minor?

4 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Thanks for the info!  So he played Esmark AAA?  Is he competitive? One of the better kids on the team? Average or below?  Just curious.  Also did he go to tryouts? How did he catch on with a team?  Interesting stuff!

Without trying to out him here, yes he played esmark U16 and varsity PIHL. He is an undersized D man. I'd say he was upper middle of the pack but a really smart player. He went to tryouts, made the team and he has some family close to the town he plays in so it worked out. His dad isn't naive to think that his kid will play past these next couple of years, but they have the coin and his kid loves to play so they are making it work.

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Are you saying that USPHL will take anyone willing to pay?  Do you know at what age do kids age out of that league?  I guess I could try to look it up.  Bottom line it sounds like we are much better off to save our money (to pay for college) and let the kids play whatever PAHL team they can make.  But what if the kid really wants to pursue Jr Hockey?  Not the parents?  How much will it cost over 4 or 5 years.  Ballpark. Anyone with ideas of costs? Thanks

USPHL ages out at 21. Tuition is around $10k for most clubs. Some clubs cover housing in that cost, some don't. My coworkers son is on his second year with a USPHL team after playing esmark/pihl and doing online college. He's having a great time and knows it likely wont lead to anything but beer league after. 

1 hour ago, twoboys said:

  2 games per team at home.  Guessing 700 a game.  So, 1400 for a pair of games.  Do this 3-5 times.  

What do those costs relate to? You should be able to secure ice time and refs for two games for less than $700 total. Or am I misreading this?

Agree 100% that the automatic offsides is an absurd rule that needs to go away immediately. 

14 minutes ago, Corsi said:

Also remember, the further you travel, the less likely you are to see local teams.  Buffalo, Cleveland, and DC are all relatively close to Pittsburgh.  Stretching out to Detroit, Boston, Indianapolis, and Philadelphia may give a team a better chance at avoiding having to play local teams out of town.

and normally the only teams that travel to places like Detroit, Boston, Chicago etc. are the independent ones....

26 minutes ago, rock said:

i feel like a lot of these kids, coaches, and parents going independent are just tired of paying the same kids and same organizations over and over every year.. its new opportunity to play different teams, different kids.. when you start playing so young you fall into playing the same teams and kids year after year after year.. 

 

For my youngest specifically I'm definitely in this boat. This will be his 5th year of mites and I am sick of playing the same teams over and over again. Doing a bunch of AAU full ice tournaments and games this year to get some variety and a bit more a challenge. I am without a doubt on the fence about what to do next year for squirts. 

This wasn't an issue for my oldest as he played A minor for squirts and peewees, but still it got annoying seeing the same teams coached by the same dads at the same rinks with the same crappy refs over and over again. 

3 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Hmmm... Predator fees for birth year teams are mysteriously higher than mixed birth year teams.  And on top of season fees you get a bonus fee for coaching.  At least you and your kid will feel special.  Kind of makes you wonder who the real predator is here.

That's generally the same model used for all orgs with BY teams. Which I'm totally cool with as long as it equates to either more practice slots or more games or both. Also having non parent head coaches is another big draw for a lot of people as it has been discussed at great lengths on this site. 

In this scenario would it mean that ALL minor pure BY teams would be obligated to play in the AA Minor division? What happens if the team is weak? Seeing that in a couple of cases so far this year....

8 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I can't believe I'm going down this rabbit hole of peewee hockey talk but what happened to the Southpointe 10 birthyear team? They were pretty good last year.  Are they still PAHL or did they go independent too?  If PAHL are they slotting AA OR A major?

Independent AA

12 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

I'm sure once the new owners get in there, they'll have all their rink teams playing in their own league. Beware the Bear.

I agree and honestly I don’t see it as a negative thing... maybe it will shake things up a bit around here.

Just now, RJUSHL said:

You're absolutely right. Some of those smaller organizations will have a "team 1" that is primarily kids in their major year with a few minor year kids sprinkled in. Some bigger organizations do this as well. Lebo for example in many cases. Those teams would have the option of playing "up" in AA Major. Obviously all AA Minor teams will be verified to make sure all kids are in their minor year.

BY makes sense to me for first year squirts, but only if their only competition is also all first year squirts. For the simple reason that everyone is generally on the same playing field. Obviously you'll still have those stand out kids who played one or two seasons of full ice AAU that have a better idea of how the game is played, but for the most part everyone will be learning as they go. In a perfect world that would be possible in PAHL, but looking at the current teams it appears there's only 3 total 12BY teams this year? (preds,foxes,vipers). Looking at MHR it seems the foxes team is really struggling against mixed year teams, which is no surprise at all.

21 minutes ago, hockey57410 said:

And at this point, does it even matter anymore?  You know the "independent" teams are still going to play some of the local PAHL teams anyway.  I think people are fed up with PAHL, their FP Points and other drama.  I'm not sure what purpose PAHL has at this point.

Off topic but in regards to PAHL and their rules. I watched a game between two 07 PAHL teams this past weekend and saw a total of 3 body checks. Is this because teams don't want to risk getting penalties and messing up the FP points and all that BS or just because its preseason? Like, honestly I was shocked. There was AT LEAST 20 perfect opportunities for someone to lay a good hit and nobody did. 

Preds 12BY is playing PAHL. 11BY team is a very skilled group of kids and are playing an independent schedule. 

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

As an FYI, PPE gets at-large bids to Nationals even if they don't win Mid-Ams.  Last year at Mid-Ams the 06 Barons took PPE to overtime in the championship game and lost, and if they had won the Barons would have received the automatic bid and PPE the at-large bid.

And I think that's part of the "legit" vs "faux" AAA argument/problem

6 minutes ago, dropthepuck said:

The problem is you go 5 hours away and end up playing those local teams away from home. Good AAA teams never want to come to Pittsburgh because they have quality opponents in their area. 

Little Ceasers, JR Flyers and Florida Alliance all came to Pittsburgh to play in the ATC tourney against the Vengeance a couple of weeks ago. I'd consider all three of those clubs to be quality AAA programs. 

At this point I'm just waiting for the EXCEL Academy Daycare to pop up. A competitive environment for your hockey minded infant/toddler ages 18m-4 years.  The sad thing is that I personally know of a couple parents that would be all over it.

1 hour ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Don't they already have the former Iceoplex at Southpointe? Or is there another rink in the South Hills you're referring to?

Ice Castle is the only one I can think of that meets Black Bears M.O. and I don't see them selling. 

Ice rental at New Ken is $325/hr for peak times.  Not sure what it was prior to BBS taking over but it’s still about $100 less than RMU and Baierl...

24 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

I'm hearing that the 2011 (or Squirt) year is having big goalie issues in general, just ask NP.   

Absolutely. The 2011 and younger goalies are pretty much non existent in this area. I know of at least 6 large PAHL organizations that had zero or just one goalie show up to their mite evaluations this year, and several of those same organizations struggled to fill their 10U spots. Even the 66ers didn’t fill all of their goalie slots this year, and obviously this thread is a telling sign of PPE at the squirt level too.

 Not sure if this is because there isn’t much emphasis on the position at those ages with the ADM system, or they don’t really nurture the kids that WANT to play goalie. Then you also have the parents that don’t want their kid between the pipes. In Pittsburgh specifically maybe it’s because Fleury is no longer a Penguin which I’m positive had an effect on the number of goalies in this area in years past. Either way it’s not a good sign for the future....