Questions21

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14 hours ago, Saucey said:

The paid coaching attracted Pens Elite players back in some instances, at least those who made black. It may be that parents predominantly want development, and if an organization can deliver that, and the perception is paid coaching gives you that, this is what will attract talent. That may be a way for PAHL to retain the AA players who go play for Pens black.

There are still parent coaches for almost ALL the Pens teams with 2 birth year teams. And at least 1 black team is struggling to field a team and trying to grab players that didn't even tryout. 

7 hours ago, Hky05 said:

Hey my bad guys, I was talking about the wrong team. 

8 hours ago, Hky05 said:

Some kids that made it before not making it 

Every single kid from last season that tried out got called back for day 3 on MONDAY with 20 more skaters and 3 more goalies on top of the 4 from last season. 

1 hour ago, Hky05 said:

Heard there were some

shakeups at the Squirt tryouts for pens elite already?? How much truth to this?!

What shake ups would there be with 48 call backs for skaters and 7 goalies for day 3? That is every kid being called back but like 5 from days 1 and 2. Just saying, not being defensive. 

40 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

I went to their web site and thought the same after seeing what's there.  It's probably not posted yet.

Sidebar: was really surprised by the tryout dates for those younger teams.  March 15?  Holy Early!

They pride themselves on holding tryouts before PPE to sway any kids that may be on the fence to tryout even though most of their younger teams are picked already for the most part. Pretty much a money grab. 

3 hours ago, Rico said:

The Pens are not political. With all due respect to said individuals, I won’t name names but there have been some heavy hitters with kids trying out, in the program.....Execs, pro’s, former pro’s and I can’t name one single case where a kid was put on a team, put on a team he/she didn’t belong on due to outside influences.

 

 

PPE is a great organization,  so don't get me wrong.  But with all do respect they have the MOST political influences I have every seen in the 8yrs my kid has been playing hockey. 1 is definitely an Execs kid that wouldn't make a low AA travel team, the Pros kids have been placed well, ex pros I don't know and the people with DEEP pockets definitely influence a lot. I have seen 2 parents that would go into the coaches office before and after practices (their kids are good and placed well) but lines would be jacked or kids moved for no reason.  Those parents have cronies that leech onto them to try and get their kids ahead. It's kind of funny to watch how desperate some people are to get their kids ahead instead of telling/helping them work harder. 

Either way officiating has gone down hill. I witnessed 2 different squirt games/teams today with the same 2 officials and in the 1 game they called 19 minor penalties and 1 10min and then in the other they called 15minor penalties. They actually had these kids crying in the box because they had no idea what they did. 

My sons team had an experience last weekend with refs where they were putting their arms up as to call a penalty a couple of times and then both teams changed positions a couple of times and then they didn't call anything. There was a time from both teams goalies that they went to leave the ice and almost let up a goal because they didn't realize that there was no penalty. 

I know the game can be fast, but for them to even butcher who scored goals sometimes when there are 2 of them out there is nuts. They were giving goals and assists to kids that were not even on the ice or even numbers on the team. 

4 minutes ago, Saucey said:

This isn't just PAHL, it's USA Hockey, isn't it? I thought I would hate it but the kids adjusted pretty quick and now I like it. Not sure that you need a system in place, just some players who can stick handle and skate. Icing the puck is pretty mindless, I like that the rule requires the kids to think a bit to get the puck out. Automatic offsides does stink, I think Peewees can play tag up and leave that to the Squirts.

Agreed.  I like the icing rule but lower level kids that can not skate or stick handle just ice it. I have seen plenty of shorties scored over the few years they have had this rule. I think it would be an awesome NHL rule. 

And yes the tag up offsides would be great for the younger ages, especially if they are on the other side of the ice trying to get back and someone dumps it in. 

This has been a rule for a few years now. The purpose is to make the short handed team PLAY and not just dump it and not take the easy way out. The problem is to do this you need to have a system in place which is a NO NO for USA hockey so some teams just continue to ice it. The 1 rule that wastes a lot of time is the automatic offsides. You want to see a game take forever. 

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

So if they had to kill 10 penalties, that's 20 minutes of PP time out of a 39 minute game? If they went into a defensive shell, isn't that contrary to USA hockey and PPE principles of teaching systems?

The Championship game was 3x 15min periods but still close to half the game. Unless you have the offensive punch to push back with all of those PK's then you are forced to play defense. Like moj said earlier too PPE blocked a shot on the PK and took advantage of it and scored short handed. That is not much of a system but trying to survive, which they did. 

1 hour ago, Moj said:

Did you see the goal against the first goalie? What’s your thoughts on if it went in or not? 

 

Hard for me to believe the vengeance we’re getting outplayed and drawing all the penalties at the same time.

 

 

About the no call on the goal, I did not see it from where I was standing. But that is on the refs and they have had quick whistles all year on some plays and no calls on others. Human error is part of the game, it sucks but it is. 

The PPE being outshot makes sense since they had to kill off so many penalties over the last 2 periods. Which would put them in a defensive shell. They had the lead and did not press until it was a clear chance. 5 on 5 the Vengeance were out played and out skated. The Vengeance definitely did have some speed, it was matched by some of the D and back checking of the O. The goal scored by the Vengeance was a nice goal, it was to little to late and scored on the back up after the PPE pulled the starter. Not taking anything away from the Vengeance as they have a handful of ELITE kids, but the PPE proved to have more depth (in that game). Best of 3 I could see the Vengeance possibly pulling out a tie, best of 5 1 win. 

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I just remembered this thread - according to MyHockeyRankings ppe 08 beat the vengeance this past weekend. Guess they weren't just ranked higher because they "played better teams". 

It was not much of a game either. PPE had to kill about 10 penalties and the Vengeance did not score until a few minutes left in the game. It looked like an old NJ Devils game after the PPE went up by 1. 

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

According to the new rankings, the Pens Elite 08 have leapfrogged the Vengeance 08 team (part of the original poster's initial gripe.)

Yes, because they play better teams. 

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Also Questions, the 07’s finished 4th I believe in their squirt minor year... the 06’s were 6-7 in theirs.

So yes, a combined team may have done better than 7th in the 08’s minor year but once all of the major metro areas start to consolidate teams starting in squirt major, it’s a different story. 

Looked it up and yes 07's were 4th, 06's were 5th. A combined 08 team this year would be rank top 3 easily also. I see where you come from on the bigger cities, but a lot of the teams from minor are in or near the same position as major as it was with the 06's and 07's. I don't know about the 06's, but I know that the 07's lost a player or 2 and a goalie from minor to major and could be why they slid a bit. Also the 08's lost a good player (injury) and a goalie from last year plus some movement within and that could be the reason for their small slide this season. There is potential and a future for these teams "if" they can get the best kids and keep them. But a player here and there every year has the potential to hurt a team. 

You have no clue about the talent around Western PA but you are claiming that some of the older teams at PPE have all the best kids. So which is it, either you know there is talent here or you don't?

Yes there is a big difference between PAHL teams and the Toronto Marlies, but that is 2 different leagues. As I'm sure there are high school teams in Canada, a PAHL team would not play the Toronto Marlies. 

The pay to play is a thing at PPE, if you don't believe that then you must be one of them. I guarantee you could go through each team and find AT LEAST 1 kid on every team that is there because of money or name. If people didn't believe it the tryout numbers wouldn't of been down this year. If they believe in their system so much then why do they have to go out and get players from out of the state and county sometimes. 

I can say one myth that is not true is about the $$$. If you actually sit and break everything down that you get uniforms, practices, games etc. It is cheaper than most if not all other organizations, even some high school teams are getting in the couple thousands range plus Jersey, pants, jump suits, socks, bags. 

So because other teams at the PPE have all the best kids and are not #1, it's impossible for the 07's or the 08's. All because the older teams are supposedly "more deep". It's different birth years and different competition. 

Would they improve- yes, does it matter- it should for an organization like that, especially with the turnout they had at some of their tryouts this year, scouts- they were at the spring tournament and the Brick tournament recruiting kids, scheduling- yes but they supposedly have trouble scheduling teams because most teams don't want to come to Pittsburgh to play 1 team only, parents eating it up- yes they do, mental health evaluations- yes, paying that much for such a small percentage chance of going somewhere. 

The 08's finished what 7th last year with only part of the best players. If ALL of the top 08's from the PPE, Vengeance and maybe 1 or 2 not in those organizations got together they would be the best team in the country.  Hands down???. If the 07's had all of the best 07's in western PA they would be top 3 easily. 

The Vengeance lose out a bit because they are so open with their teams and not forcing kids to make them #1 priority. The PPE lose out because at almost every birth year there are kids on Elite that should be on Black or kids on Black that shouldn't be on Black or Elite. But they are because of who they are or who their parents are. 

There are plenty of great players at most of the birth years in western PA. It's just trying to get them all together that is the problem. "If" there was an organization that could guarantee an unbiased atmosphere and could not be bought by parents. Pittsburgh could be a nuce hub for hockey, especially for how small it is compared to other hockey cities. 

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

Rico, Mr. professional evaluator that you are, why didn't you mention the the ties and the loss that occurred? Did they not actually happen? Were they a figment of someone's imagination? I don't know if they're a mess, but the word inconsistent certainly applies.

Plus the fact that the 08 might not have been the goalie for that game, and they lost to that team 7-1 already this year. The #1 team they beat has 8 losses and 3 ties. There are 2 teams behind that #1 team that beat them twice already this year. 

6 minutes ago, Rico said:

Don’t know about all that... 

Certainly a higher ranked team - but the top teams are already stacked. 

I think he meant if you take the top players from each team. If that is what he meant then yes easily top 3 if not #1. 

32 minutes ago, somebody’s mom said:

Here you go.

I just love that sense of humor. You must be making someone very happy. 

10 minutes ago, somebody’s mom said:

Hey corrector, how do you feel about people who edit tournament photos to remove the division info before posting it all over the internet?  There's this guy, let's just call him John for conversation's sake, that does that stuff all the time.

I like this mom, she sounds hot???. I wish she had a photo. 

Why would you edit a tournament photo and then post it? Most of the time the only reason to post the photo is because the team did well. 

I could go all the way up to 05's, I have horses all over. Just heard so much about these 07's and 08's. 

Good for the 07 team, it was #1 in USA. The 08's beat the #1 team in Canada this weekend too. 

8 hours ago, corrections said:

Hopefully you can see how much easier that was.  It was a much better post.  There is no need to be so negative.  I don’t know if it was really your point, just taking a long way to get there, but the one thing you were correct about was that the two programs would be much stronger if players would come together.  However, your time with both organizations should have showed you by now that will never happen.  It leads to two good competitive programs, but even if the two never play each other which is a shame having good local competition, it leads to bringing more good teams in the area to play both as we have seen last weekend and this weekend coming up.  I am hoping both teams have success.

Agreed,  but it would be nice to see the power house that could be made with the top kids from both teams. 

2 hours ago, corrections said:

Correction: You must be an 09 vengeance parent, your info, player evaluation is wayyyy off. (even worse)

Thank you for the shout out. ?