Macky85

PAHL has spoken, 10u placements are out. Hopefully anyone stressing over their teams placement can now relax and enjoy the season! @Happy Hockey Fan as anticipated your teams 2&3 are both in A3, which should be more competitive for you all Good luck with your season.

I agree, it works both ways. The coach could use this as an opportunity to develop some well-rounded skaters. If the team continues to dominate blowing out teams, swap the forward and defense lines if they're racking up goals. Let them learn all positions and avoid ending games after the 2nd or having a running clock. The coach could also tell them they need to pass (multiple times) and work the puck prior to shooting. This won't work if you have a full roster of stars but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

The more games played the more accurate MHR will be. At a minimum a team probably needs to play at least 10 games before they're MHR is in the ballpark. I believe MHR won't post a ranking unless 5 games have been played. For established teams it's probably more accurate but first year squirt or a team with a fair amount of new players I wouldn't read too much into MHR until Nov/Dec. Looking at current game results for the team Happy Hockey is referencing, they would probably be a top team if moved up to A3 or be competitive in A2. Since their other team is already in A2, I for see his team being moved up the typical one division to A3. It's possible their team in A2 could get bumped down to A3 and if his team gets moved up, they would have two teams in the same division. Look at 12u this season. There's quite a few orgs that have two teams in the same division.

Unfortunately PAHL does not permit appeals for 10u.

I am pretty sure I know which org you're with and another possibility is the registrar mixed up the placement information submitting it to PAHL. The team your kid is on appears to be better than your #3 team based on current MHR info. I agree, your team is definitely not A4. FWIW, typically someone in the org tells the orgs registrar to submit placement information to PAHL. At least that's how it's been with the orgs I have been affiliated with.

I think you need to have a talk with the coaches and discuss your concerns. Are other parents on the teams expressing concerns too? Typically the coach(s) decide what level to submit to PAHL. I may be wrong but I don't believe PAHL does much team review prior to preseason placement. Again whatever the coach(s) submits is usually where a team is placed for preseason. There's definitely less info available for 10u than the other age groups for PAHL review prior to preseason. I don't know what org you are at or the coaches and I am not accusing them of sand bagging but it has happened in the past. Basically submit two divisions down and only get moved up one and guarantee your team is in the running to win the coveted PAHL regular season and ODSETs.

Hopefully it works out for your teams. At the end of the day it's 10u hockey. If most of the other teams in your division are similar level of play/competitiveness and you have that one outlier, so be it. As long as the kids are having fun and developing that's all that matters. You're going to experience this as long as your kid(s) play sports.

10u placement definitely has it challenges. There probably are instances that they have moved a team up or down two divisions, but it's likely a rare occurrence. They are pretty adamant about moving teams only one. Last year there were 10u teams that requested to move down two divisions and they were told no. Those teams would have really benefited by moving down two. There were also instances where teams that were very good should have been moved up two divisions. They got moved up one and still cleaned house.

I think there are a few variables impacting the numbers at the squirt and peewee levels, which most have been already mentioned (covid, cost, Pens not playing well, etc.) Even at adm some of the local orgs are not seeing the numbers, which most have tried to keep the cost the same as tears past. From adm to squirt many orgs costs really jump. I would also add kids opting to play for their school teams vs club. My sons still play both, but there are hand full of kids that opt to just play for the school only. Looking at MHR history for local orgs over the last few seasons it appears at the squirt level many orgs have lost a team or two, but some orgs have added another team. The cost aspect is probably going to continue to impact the numbers if things continue the way they are. I am sure more families will be making the decision to choose either school or club or maybe neither and play another sport altogether if something doesn't change.

The last time I checked most are paying to play hockey. I would say Private schools are closer to PAHL teams than Co-ops. You can go play for any PAHL team you like if you want to pay the fee and make the commute. Pretty much the same for private schools. You don't have that option with Co-ops. I agree, reduce the guidelines down to 2-3, not 6 and make them contiguous districts. I believe some of these schools are trying to build viable programs, but the student numbers are working against them. Many school districts continue to see shrinking enrollment numbers, with a handful that continue to grow. Some of the Co-op schools currently only have a few kids playing from 2-3 schools. I do not know the process in developing a Co-op, but most are not powerhouse districts banding together to win a championship. It's not going to change, but I don't see a competitive advantage for these Co-op teams, that constitutes requiring them to play in their own division. Especially when many other PIAA sports seem to operate just fine the other way.

That's my point, I really don't see why Co-op schools should be treated any different than the private schools. Even though Co-op's can pull from a few other districts they're really not at any advantage.

I've never quite understood the PIHL divisions and probably never will. It does appear D2 and A are treated as if they are inferior to the other two. What is the concern with mixing co-op teams with pure teams? Are all the A3-A schools that much better than the D2 schools that they should be excluded and be in their own division because they're co-op and not eligble for the Penguin's Cup? Aren't CC, NC, Cathedral Prep, BMcC, and other Catholic schools glorified co-ops? They technically hold an advantage to all pure and co-op schools since they can recruit, but yet they can compete in the A3-A divisions. Is this based on them typically competing at a higher level, since they have more talent? Would they get bumped to D2 if their program tanks for a few years? I guess where I am going with this is, what if a co-op district starts consistently fielding higher compete level teams, are they stuck in D2? Can they get bumped up? Hypothetically, if a co-op district ends up with a team that has a couple lines of PPE kids, will they remain in D2? If TK develops Sewickley Academy into a high performing program for a few years do they stay in D2? A lot can change from year to year and there has to be a better way of evaluating the teams.

Just want to thank everyone for their feedback. Its definitely helped me to step back and put things into perspective. I spoke with the coach and discussed some of the concerns, which he acknowledged he is aware of but not sure how he's going to address them. I got the impression since the assistants are his friends, its an uncomfortable conversation he doesn't want to have. With that said, its our sons decision where he wants to play. He thinks he wants to tryout for a couple teams where his friends play, including the current team.

None taken. All the coaches kids are 2015s, they'll all be back, but its only the one coach that doesn't like to take his son off the ice. Actually the 2014s tend to be treated like unwanted children, which is an issue in itself. After seeing the kids battle every week and losing over 30 games we've become a bit jaded and cynical, especially since the team was represented to the families as being highly competitive.

I apologize if my message came across contradicting, that wasn't my intent. Myself and parents have met with the coach about many of the issues I mentioned but its fallen on deaf ears. Basically my team I will do it my way. As for the the weaker players, I wasn't suggesting to shorten the bench. I was trying to point out some of the coaching short comings and his attitude of I am not changing. Splitting up weak d-pairs isn't shortening the bench, more so, strategy to not hang two players out to dry. They've struggled all season with out much improvement. They may have had more fun if the got to play some offense and not constantly playing on their heals. Are these common issues with coaches that improve over time or all signs pointing to nothing is going to change and we should look elsewhere. What I am trying to ask is for those that have been around the block a time or two, is what I am listing as concerns enough to say, get out now or give it another year. We really don't want to leave, the organization is great, but there's a potential to be stuck with this group for the foreseeable future.