3 Boys

On 4/2/2022 at 12:58 PM, Birddog said:

I saw Esmark named their 07 coach Chris “Sluggo” Stern.

https://www.esmarkstars.com/news_article/show/1218529

I thought he was tied into Pens heavily

Seems to be an interesting move for Esmark, are they going to now have a parent coach?

If so, that’s a pretty strong  statement about what’s going on at Pens.

 

Why isn’t Yuri going to do it?

They do not really have a 16U team.

Apparently Sterns son is still going to tryout at PPE.  If he doesn't make it then he will play at Esmark.

28 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I agree but a few kids will try to move and some will tryout hoping to move up from a AA team.  If they haven't been asked to tryouts I think they are wasting their time and donating 150.00. Just my opinion of course.

Yes, very true.  All the teams have 90% or more of the kids already picked.

On 2/10/2022 at 1:35 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

If it does I would be shocked because the younger ages are supposed to be development and fun!

Agree but is is shameful that for majority of the teams, even in B to A divisions, this is not the case.  I also agree that JV should be about developing for Varsity.  How good a JV team ends up being is never remembered - and so shouldn't be.  Roll the lines for majority of the game.

Hockey is on a downward spiral.  I have to find the article but it was written by a scout from a junior team stating how bad the state of hockey is becoming.  He said it's not just the kids but that the coaches are contributing to the problem by not disciplining the kids.  The scout wrote about how the kids are so selfish and not playing for the team.  Basically skating the puck end to end trying to do everything on their own and how coaches don't sit the kids for their mistakes.  It happens at all ages.  Heck, on my sons team we have kids that are repeat offenders for fighting and after their 1 or 2 game suspension the coach puts them right back out there.  Just a shame because not only does it hurt the team, in the end the kid doesn't learn that there are consequences for their actions.  This goes for kids that get the same "hot-head" penalties almost every game yet the coach puts them right back out there.  I know when I was an assistant coach for my one sons team, I had zero problem sitting him for not listening or for when the head coach sat him for a repeated penalty.  Today, he is a better player not making those dumb intentional penalties and more importantly a better person. 

Majority of these kids have no clue about the meaning of the word TEAM.  If they did there would be so much more passing and encouraging with each other but instead there is more dissent because there are no consequences.  

I think the Preds are even more disgruntled particularly this year because they lost majority of their team to the Vengeance.  But yes, I agree, it does seem that those teams previously mentioned are always involved in the mayhem.  

Truly disgusting! 

On 10/26/2021 at 9:59 AM, aaaahockey said:

I guess I'm even mor surprised because the vengeance don't use parent coaches correct?   

They do use parent coaches.  At least they did last year and that was one of the main reasons a lot of the 07 kids went to Esmark.

22 hours ago, forbin said:

How does that process work? Are they able to move down to Tier 2 now or is it too late? Perhaps the players, parents and organization wouldn't want to "swallow their pride" anyway. 

It is to late to drop down to Tier II.  And even if they could I was told the Vengeance association would never do it and have any of their teams play AA.

21 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Ain't no way in hell a team starting the season at AAA drops to AA Tier 2, under any circumstances.  Can you imagine the irate parents paying AAA dollars for their superstar kid to then play the lowly dregs in AA, while demanding some sort of kick back or refund?  

Very true.   Just like the Icemen teams, you pay AAA costs even if you are placed in Tier II like the 07 team is this year.   Crazy to pay that amount to play AA.  

9 minutes ago, forbin said:

The Ohio Prospects do not appear to be a very strong organization from top to bottom. 

Agree, Ohio Prospects are not strong at all.  The 07 Vengeance team would have been better playing Tier 2 this year.  The kids would probably have had a much better time and a chance at Tier II Nationals.  They will never qualify for Tier I Mid-Am playoffs this year.

20 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Exactly!! And those players aren't at that level because those "tenders" are handed out like Halloween candy to NAPHL players. That league is weak. At best.

 

So this is weak:

On 9/30/2021 at 11:07 AM, Danner27 said:

It’s really early. Look during the end of October when teams get up to 15  games. Good amount of teams not ranked yet because they have not played 5 games. 

Very true.  I'm sure there will be a lot of movement.

On 9/30/2021 at 7:30 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

very true ive said it before.  Esmark acts all high and mighty with their tenders.... in the last 5-6 seasons 2 yes 2 made nahl teams a goalie and a forward who now has a D1 scholarship!!!!! every other one never sniffed the roster at all and was cut in camp. So those tenders really mean nothing 

 

How many kids got moved on from Mt, Lebo, Icemen, Vengeance, and Preds?  I believe the Preds possibly may have one kid that they were able to get noticed and moved on.  You are missing the point.  The point is that playing for Esmark, if you can't make the Pens, is the only other organization in Pittsburgh area that you will have a chance to move on.  So actually Tenders do mean something because if you don't get tendered your chances to advance is even less to none.

On 9/30/2021 at 7:26 PM, sadday4hockey said:

And in another week, you'll be be able to go to those teams websites which tendered each of them and see that most if not all will have been cut and looking for a place to play.

A Tender doesn't mean anything other than you don't have to pay to tryout. EVERY team in the NAHL is required to tender a specified number of NAPHL players each season. I don't know what that number is but if you look at the quality of most of the other teams in the NAPHL, it's no surprise that Esmark gets a lot of those tenders for their players. They consistently have of the top teams in the 18U age group each season.

Of course it means nothing, just like it means nothing for any player from any organization other than Esmark as well.  At least Esmark gets kids noticed and a chance at junior teams.  The main point was you CANNOT say that about any other organization in Pittsburgh except for ESMARK and PENS ELITE.   

Obviously, as with any organization, there seems to be some bitterness towards Esmark from a you and others here.  But the fact remains, Esmark and Pen Elite are the only 2 organizations within the Pittsburgh area that gives kids a chance for the next level. 

I was surprised to see Mt. Lebo 18U AAA ranked 40th and doing well in the beginning of the season.  I thought (but could be wrong) that the majority of the kids were 17 years old and it's impressive seeing them doing so well with a younger team.   Hats off to them.

Interesting to see the 18UAAA Vengeance ranked in the lower half of Tier I.   Alot of those kids came from the Predators AAA program and yet the Preds 18U AAA team is ranked 7 spots higher.  I am guessing the Preds organization is liking that.  Of course, as we all know- it's a very long season and things are going to change.  Of course the Icemen 18U AAA team is ranked 95th out of 108 teams which is not surprising.  

Both 18U (ranked 12th) and 16U (ranked 23rd) Esmark teams started very well in the rankings. It is a little surprising to see the 14U Esmark team get ranked 46th for a first year team.   But as noted before, it's a long season........

14 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

Icemen seems to be a landing pad for the disgruntled, at least more so than Vengeance. I can't see where they'd compete with Esmark. 

I agree, this year I do not think neither the Vengeance or Icemen would be able to compete against the Esmark team.  I was just addressing Big_Clapper21 in regards to his statement about local teams playing each other.  It would be great to see those games happen but the way the ranking system is structured I am assuming Esmark would never play those teams because beating them would do nothing for their ranking.  So I would assume Esmark would never take the chance to play those teams.  Just like Pen Elite would never take the chance and play Esmark.; to much to lose and nothing to gain.

On 7/6/2021 at 3:08 PM, twoboys said:

Might have been poorly worded.  But, if they want to join the Icemen, great.  Everyone has to pick a team that they will be happy playing for.  Hockey is a long season.  Kind of tough if you aren't happy with the team, coach, etc. 

I agree, I am finding that what seems to be the first element for a kid to be happy on his/her team are whether or not all the kids get along, the second element seems to be the coach, and lastly winning/losing.  But in my experience throughout the hockey journey, a few bad kids with major egos or bad attitudes, even if a team is winning, can make for a long miserable season for the other players.

On 8/31/2021 at 7:30 PM, Big_Clapper21 said:

Does anyone else besides me think that the AAA scene is a money grab?

PPE is the only true AAA Team in my opinion. 
 

imagine if these teams ( icemen, vengeance, Esmark) competed more locally. There would be some great hockey games. Teams are driving 5+ hours away to be AAA. Just parents chasing status in my opinion. PPE isn’t getting kids to the next level, so I can’t imagine a chain smoking guy who barely speaks English out of New Ken is going to do it either.  Just trying to get the conversation rolling again.

I do believe that Esmark had 8 kids tendered in the NAHL from last season for this season.  Esmark is the only other organization besides Pens Elite that actually has a proven track record of moving kids to the next level.  You can easily go to their website and see where the kids got tendered.  So not sure why you are saying that Esmark doesn't move kids to the next level?

Though, I do agree that it would be great to see Icemen, Vengeance, and Esmark play each other.  Though, I believe the long term goal is to end the season with a top 30, possibly top 40, ranking so that kids want to come to the organization.   Unfortunately, according to the rankings released today (speaking about the 07 BY), Esmark at 46th would get nothing out of playing Vengeance, ranked at 89th, or the Icemen ranked 66th in Tier II. That's one of the problems with these rankings, if your ranked low no upper ranked team will play you.  Seems like a tough hill to climb for an organization.

And all these Faux AAA teams besides Pens and possibly Esmark will never be competitive until politics are set aside and the best players are chosen.  Obviously, I that will never happen so your best bet to play at a higher level is make Pens/Esmark or leave Pittsburgh and roll the dice.

14 minutes ago, Hockey22 said:

Read 3 boys other comments in the past 2 months and then comment. All 3 boys does is personally attack, and frankly sounds like a discounted pens elite spring team 10u parent (yes, read into the sarcasm of spring team pens elite)

Fun fact. Parents factor into all sports and kids making teams. 3 boys should pull out a mirror. If a player is not going to make an expadential difference vs a player whose parents don't cause issues (text coach during game complaining, attacks them at the rink yelling, insults other kids in the stands, leaves the rink in a frenzy if his kid isn't on the ice when THEY think they should be, coaches their kid and tells them to do the opposite of an actual coach, hence hurting the team), the player will be looking for a new home all to no fault of their own. Sounds like 3 boys fits that scenario. And their player is old enough to know it.

It comes down to, 3 boys is a prime example of why this sport is a shit show. Let your kid be a kid, let your kid play the sport they love without interfering, without causing a ruckus at every turn, let them learn life lessons and consequences of their decisions and just enjoy  watching them play before it's too late and you are an empty nester coming to this board to cause drama to give yourself something to do in your free time. 

No, don't fit that scenario at all, especially when you have texts from the head coach at the end of the season praising your son and his play.  Sounds like you are might be one of the ones whose involved in the political end there which is fine.  People know the truth.  

On 7/6/2021 at 2:03 PM, Jack Handey said:

Icemen 18u will be better this year - the goalie is outstanding and they have lots of returning 03s.  They will not be bottom this year.  

What? The Icemen U18 team will again be in the bottom 10% of the rankings.  The goalie is not outstanding, I would say he is solid.  The younger goalie is solid as well.  Neither are outstanding.  Both U16 and U18 teams last year finished in the bottom 5%, maybe 10% of the rankings so not sure what would make you think they will be better this year.  Some of the forwards are not bad, most of them small size but can move.  Defense is pretty bad. They took 4 of the defensemen that were on the U16 team last year, 2 of which were horrible, one has great skill/hockey IQ and is super tough but lacks quickness and speed. The problem they are going to have when playing any AAA team ranked higher than 80 will not being able to keep up with the skating.   Though with the addition of the new head coach from Slippery Rock may help some.  Just not enough, this is a game of speed at the higher levels and the Icemen don't have that where they need it.

On 6/30/2021 at 2:43 PM, dazedandconfused said:

 

Icemen - wouldn't qualify for PAHL playoffs but hey, it's worth that 3rd A isn't it

So true,  Icemen teams can't even beat high ranked AA teams so how can you call yourself AAA?

On 6/30/2021 at 5:39 PM, twoboys said:

I don't think many kids can do it unless the top birth year is weak.  At best one or two kids can do it in an organization.  SHAHA 07 played up.  They had a more competitive year than 07 Badgers who ran the table and won both banners.    

People that I know that went the Icemen route have been pretty happy with the coaching.  I do agree at some point they get disillusioned with the team's performance.

I heard the13U coach last year was really good.  I heard parents were pretty satisfied with him.  Not so much with the 15U, 16U, and 18U teams from what I hear.  Apparently there was not enough discipline carried out. Threats and consequences to players were made but never followed through with.  A few dad's mentioned that only the kids that continued to train outside of the organization throughout the year improved.  Others did not.  

The crutch of it, IMO, is that Pittsburgh could be more of a hockey hotspot attracting more scouts if politics were not an issue.  In addition to the Pens and sometimes Esmark, Pittsburgh could have probably 2  very competitive AAA teams if the best players were selected for only those couple teams.  Obviously this can't happen because there are 5-6 AAA teams in the region.  Way to many.   Another problem is take for example, the 16U Preds team last year leave the Preds and a coach brings over half that team to the Vengeance, were all those kids better than the ones that tried out?  Not so, but those kids make it anyway therefor diluting the talent and weakening the team.  Another example is that kids won't make a team because tryouts overlap with anther association and if you miss just ONE of an associations tryout because it was the last day of tryouts at another association, no matter your kids talent, they will not make the team.  Apparently this happened on the 18U Icemen team.  A dad was told that his kid didn't make it because he missed the first night of tryouts because he was trying out at another association.  Really?  As the dad said,  his kid was never guaranteed a spot on the Icemen team so why should he put his eggs in one basket?   You would think that an organization who wants to compete at AAA level, such as the Icemen, would want to take the top players?  Apparently not so.  That is why organizations like the Icemen will never have a winning program and that is why you always see a large turnover of players at these, as some call it here, faux AAA associations.   

This will always be a problem and the decision to be made for a kid that really wants to move on to higher levels of hockey after AAA is get out of Pittsburgh.  Politics are everywhere but if your kid didn't grow up "in the click" or made a higher level team at a fairly younger age (13 or 14), joining a AAA team at say 15U or 16U and up will not happen unless your kid has skills like Sidney Crosby, and sometimes because of politics even that kid won't make it.    

On 6/23/2021 at 1:28 PM, sadday4hockey said:

No, it means everyone that wasn't placed on one of these teams.

SHAHA

Vengeance

Preds

Esmark

Renegades

North Pitt

Am I forgetting any 06 teams?

 

Exactly.

On 5/23/2021 at 8:51 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

Last I checked ALL kids are going to end up in the same place ( beer league). so what's it really matter if someone wants to play a more competitive schedule, 2-3 ice slots a week all season, and has numerous friends on the team. Who cares, are you writing the checks? So many act like this or that team blah blah blah. BUT maybe the families there, its a fit for them and their happy with the coaching.......       

Not to mention their numbers where better then the Preds AAA, Lebo AAA, and Veng AAA....... so they must be doing something right ? They had more supply and demand then any of those other 3 teams........

Their numbers were up because they were the LAST organization to hold tryouts, lol.

13 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

What's going on with the 07 Vengenace?  I heard alot of them left to go to Essmark?  If true, feels like they have some holes to fill and would be at risk of becoming a good AA program instead of a AAA program.  

Yes, I believe 6 or 7 of the better 07 Vengeance players from last year went to Esmark.  I believe only 2 Vengeance players from last season stayed.  The current 07 Vengeance team for the 2021-2022 season has huge holes to fill.   The association is saying the 07 team will play Tier 1 Elite but I can't see it with the current players they have on their roster. They would do better in Tier 2 and their kids will have a chance to win some games.