RJUSHL

3 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

So.... here we go again with the PPE Girls teams and their never-ending issues.

The 14, 16 and 18U teams have been scrubbed from the site. They've already sent one set of Coaches packing this season and it sounds like the replacement ones are already out as well.

Why have they left and/or been fired?

1 minute ago, Rebel Panther said:

The '06 SHAHA AAA team beat Little Caesars last weekend and have gone 2-1 against the Pens Elite team.  Both they and the '08 AAA SHAHA team are legit.

No doubt about that. I really hope this discussion doesn't turn into that again. Those two teams are good.

Are SHAHA AAA teams looking for a new home with two sheets of ice and more practice time? It's still crazy to me how many teams they run out of the YMCA with one single sheet.

7 minutes ago, bb2j3z said:

First of all, I designed this flyer for the announcement.   Before everyone goes crazy on the Tier 1/AAA comment, we are looking to expand and accommodate more teams at all levels.  Most likely we are not adding tier 1 this season, but if a team came to us looking for a home at that level.   We would take it so that's why those words are in there.  As of right now based on discussions with Black Bear, we are still their top customer at the rink and will be given top priority to buy ice and then to their internal programs.    Then to third parties like tournament companies and Esmark.

Thanks for the transparency. It makes sense, especially with how some AAA teams have swapped organizations in recent years. The entire '08 AAA Lebo team moved to SHAHA last year for example. Printscape could be a decent landing spot for some teams.

But just so we're clear, the Tier 1 part of the advertisement wasn't in reference to Esmark now using ice at Printscape?

An extra sheet of ice in the south hills is great news. It's really needed. There will be no issues filling all available ice.

The Tier 1 thing is interesting. I wonder if they mean Rebellion Tier 1 or if it's more of a reference to Esmark now using Printscape for their program? It's all Black Bear so there seems to be some overlap. Probably more and more overlap each year.

20 hours ago, Law said:

Just when I thought I was out; Danner, you pulled me back in. A few facts regarding your comments about ACHA and Pitt.

1. PITT won the CHMA regular season championship 4 out of the last 5 years Pitt was in the league. After the 1st 2 years, the league decided to give the automatic bid to the playoff winner rather than the regular season champ. The handwriting was on the wall as Pitt went 26-1-1 in league the last 2 years.

2. ACHACHA M1-semantics, why does it bother you?

3. There is not a player on the Pitt roster that came to Pitt just to play hockey. They came to get a good education AND play hockey. 

4. The cost to play hockey at Pitt this year was completely funded by sponsors and fundraising. Includes jerseys, shells, gloves, helmets, equipment bags, warm up windsuits, travel, hotels and food on the road, sticks, etc.

5. If a game in the ACHA is tied after regulation it goes into the computer as a tie. Has always been that way

6. There is no political or parental interference at Pitt.

Well there Danner, I fixed it for you. Know the facts b4 you criticize  a program that people have worked hard to build. You can fact check any of this.

Good perspective. Doesn’t seem like a bad situation for the kids. They’re getting a good education, and much of the cost of their hockey is comped. For most kids, it doesn’t get any better than that.

I don’t know too much about ACHA hockey, but the situation at Pitt seems like an awesome setup for local kids with good grades that couldn’t quite make it work in Tier 2 juniors or had no desire to play junior hockey. Not exactly sure who feeds these programs.

I don’t understand the hate. 

6 hours ago, Stinger17 said:

The tryout dates for 14u thru 18u are on Easter weekend…like mentioned above I hope this gets cleaned up. 

Fairly big travel weekend for many families. Not a good idea if you’re trying to get numbers. 

Just talked to a buddy who plays out of Printscape. Still no sign of construction. I'm skeptical of the second sheet.

3 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, did you look at the information?  It's all over the place and very hard to read.  They have last years tryout info still in the page so you really have to look through it all to figure it out.  It does say they are having tryouts at Printscape but it sure doesn't mention them being there for 23-24.  If you look close they are only having 1 tryout date at Printscape to 2 or 3 at PIA.  Does it mean that all the kids will have to tryout at both places?  As for the Viper Stars info it's all from last year. You would think they would have taken out all that info before posting.  

 

* Utilization of both Pittsburgh Ice Arena and Printscape Arena for practices and games

^^ That part is on the page at the bottom. I agree. Kind of hard to read. More details would be helpful.

I wonder if this will pull AAA SHAHA and Preds kids? They'll probably have to be much more specific about how the split will work.

The Esmark announcement specifically states that practices and games will be split between PIA (New Ken) and Printscape (Southpointe).

https://www.esmarkstars.com/tryouts-information

This means that Printscape is for sure getting an additional sheet of ice.

Rebellion and all the large school organizations that practice out of Printscape seem to already be limited by ice time. Peters and Canon Mac are large school organizations with teams at all levels. I believe Rebellion has had to limit their number of teams and make cuts the past few years. Only way this works is if they add a second sheet.

Has anyone been there recently and seen signs of construction?

The announcement also mentions the Viper Stars still being based out of New Ken. But wasn't that announcement a few weeks ago aligning Esmark with the Huskies? 

44 minutes ago, kid310050 said:

Esmark has poster their tryout dates and it looks like they are using both PIA and Printscape. 

 

https://www.esmarkstars.com/tryouts-information

A lot of interesting things here. Maybe this needs a new thread. Esmark mentioning a split (games and practices) between PIA and Printscape. That for sure means that a second sheet is coming to Printscape, because talking to people who play out of that rink, they're always limited by the amount of available ice. Lots of Rebellion teams (I know they make cuts because of a lack of ice) and 3 or 4 school programs play out of there.

I'll start a new thread because I think they want this to stay focused on just the announcements.
 

7 hours ago, Flavio said:

My kid drives himself to practice, from our home near Wexford

- Flavio aka Flavi (pronounced Flah vee)

 

 

I understand you’re just trolling us, but you do realize that driving from Wexford (north hills) to Printscape is faster than driving from Wexford to PIA. It doesn’t matter if it’s the middle of the night or during rush hour. You may want a refund on your traffic management degree. 

12 minutes ago, Flavio said:

Some of you have latched on to this narrative that I’m pro PIA. I’m not, I’m just anti-Southpointe. It’s too far south west of the city and region as a whole. The only people that rink makes a real difference for is Peters Twn, Upper st Clair and canonsburg area. 
 

If you want to have another Pittsburgh predators or Shaha there, by all means. If we are talking a program on par with the ppe, it’s not possible. How many times do I have to say it…… there is a reason why all of these programs chose to operate north of the city….. driving north is easier due to multiple major arteries that spread traffic out. You don’t have to take Flavios word for it that nobody wants to set up shop down there. Look at what the current set up is? They’re all north? Why is that? I don’t see Alpha or PIA with a soccer field???? You all talk about PIA like it’s limping into business every morning…. Last I checked, there are two 200x85 sheets of ice available there. Not a girls middle school soccer team in sight.  Just the truth, the people occupying northern rinks aren’t at risk of having their rinks turn into a flag football field or a gym. 

Says the dude who refers to himself in the third person. 

1 minute ago, Flavio said:

I know there will never be a Tier 1 program in Southepointe lol 

Anyone a bookmaker? Let's get this man some odds.

I know you don't live in the south hills or like the south hills Flavio. That's fine. But man you really don't understand the layout of this city. Printscape is a vastly better drive for most people, whether they are in the south hills or not.

Here are all the AAA PIHL high schools. You know, the largest districts, with the most kids, and the most kids who play hockey. Distances are from the actual high school.

Peters Township
14 minutes to Printscape
53 minutes to PIA

Central Catholic
29 minutes to Printscape
31 minutes to PIA

Seneca Valley
42 minutes to Printscape
44 minutes to PIA

North Allegheny
38 minutes to Printscape
42 minutes to PIA

Pine Richland
42 minutes to Printscape
35 minutes to PIA

Upper St. Clair
15 minutes to Printscape
47 to PIA

Cathedral Prep
2 hr 9 minutes to Printscape
2 hr 12 minutes to PIA

Bethel Park
21 minutes to Printscape
49 minutes to PIA

Baldwin
32 minutes to Printscape
41 minutes to PIA

Canon Mac
10 minutes to Printscape
51 minutes to PIA

Mt. Lebanon
20 minutes to Printscape
40 to PIA

Please tell me again that PIA is an amazing location and Printscape is horrible for most people. One single school is closer to PIA than Printscape. One. And it's a 7 minute difference. This is honestly such a stupid thing to argue about. I should not have taken the time to do this.

Geographically speaking, I live roughly right in-between the two rinks. But the drive time is not even close. And notice that destinations even north of the city (NA, Seneca Valley, etc.) are closer to Printscape.

It's not difficult to understand. Not sure why it upsets you so much.

1 hour ago, Flavio said:

According to others here. There’s many families in the south hills who won’t even think of driving anywhere but ice castle or Bethel. The kids are good enough to make the legit AAA squads..
 

Driving somewhere to support your family financially is hardly comparable to driving somewhere for a youth sport. Driving out to State College 4 days a season is also not comparable. I do agree that people go above and beyond for the kids. I don’t think the overall picture is being looked at. A tier 1 program based in Southpointe easily becomes third or 4th place amongst Tier 1 programs. It is simply logistics, why are all the programs in the north somehwere in the first place? Because people with business backgrounds looked at the layout of the land and decided that’s where they would be best suited to do business. A program in Southpointe can’t even get off its feet enough to prove they have good coaching, because people aren’t going to pass over the ease of getting to these other places compared to everyone being funneled to 79 S. And the hell it would take to get there from anyone not living within 8 miles of 79 S. Printscape was propped up by the Penguins for decades. There’s a reason why it’s down to one sheet and a soccer/lacrosse field. Nobody with a business background, a good one anyway, that’s looking to draw on a customer base from an entire region is going to put one in a spot without several major channels to get to that place. The South Hills kills any chance printscape has because it is a giant black hole of traffic spanning from Canonsburg to the Mon Valley with no HIGHWAYS. Florida and Cleveland do not rely on a kid, or a group of out of town kids to make their business break even. That’s a moot point. A team in Southepointe is not positioned to make people already going to New Ken and cranberry change their mind. That’s the point. I’m happy to revisit this topic down the line when there’s no Tier 1 program at printscape because Blackbear most likely has a person involved with enough sense to look at the map and see how tricky it becomes. A program at Southpointe lookong to operate at Tier 1 (meaning they are drawing from all over town) wouldn’t even be able to start practices until 7pm due to peoples physical ability to arrive there by 6:30. 7pm may even be pushing it. 

 

Geography is clearly not your strong suit. You have three main roads right by Southpointe... 79, the new toll road that goes to the airport, and 19. In what alternate universe do you think Alpha or PIA are better locations?!

Sure, every location is going to be good for some and bad for others, but we're speaking in general terms here. There are certain rinks that are just more convenient for more people. And this isn't much of a newsflash, but those rinks aren't Alpha or PIA.

And your "people with business background" argument is even more absurd. You see any giant new business parks in New Ken? Now what about Southpointe?

3 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

And RJ, 85% of the top players? You definitely failed stats 101.

What's your number?

11 hours ago, Coach Yuri said:

Yes 

We are split ice next year practices and games Printscape rink 

Well I guess that settles that. Thanks for chiming in.

Is it games at one, practices at another? How do you plan on managing this and selling it to potential players and families?

1 hour ago, forbin said:

The Esmark splitting ice rumor aside, I still think Printscpae needs to announce the second sheet asap. 

Has anyone who is at the rink regularly seen any construction or signs of a second sheet?

11 hours ago, Flavio said:

I don’t see them losing out at all. They currently draw from everywhere. Why change it up at this point? Esmark’s bantam and midget program is solid as a whole. People seek them out. Esmark doesn’t have to go anywhere part time. Most players who aren’t at the ppe , yet are looking to play Tier 1 are at Esmark already. 
Even Blackbear would be stupid to try to place a Tier 1 team at Printscape. That place might as well be West Virginia to 75% of the hockey community based on logistics. 

It's a quicker drive from Seneca Valley high school in Harmony to Printscape than it is to PIA. If you haven't looked at a map lately, Seneca Valley is wayyyyyyyyy north of the city.

You have your 75% rule backwards.

New Ken is a nightmare for 75% of the city and probably 85% of the best players who either live in the south hills or up and down the 79 corridor. It's not complicated.

12 hours ago, Flavio said:

They really shouldn’t announce it. Nobody wants to drive to Southpointe. Any program looking to operate out of Southpointe and draw kids from north, east and west of the city is going to fail. This whole fascination with organizations moving south of the city is delusion from people likely living south of city. 

Couple things...

If you look at rosters of PPE, Esmark, and Vengeance, you're going to see that there is probably greater than 50% of the kids coming from the south hills and/or 79 corridor. But there are still lots of good players in the south hills that refuse to make that drive to New Ken or Harmarville but are still good players. Those kids generally choose to stay and play at SHAHA or Preds. In the case of SHAHA, many of those teams are ranked higher than Esmark. There are just more good players in the south hills in places like Upper St. Clair, Mt. Lebanon, Peters Township, Bethel Park, etc.

There is also a concentration of good players in places like Quaker Valley and Seneca Valley, but even though those districts are north of the city, it's still a closer drive to Southpointe than new New Ken. Seneca Valley is wayyyy north of the city, and Printscape is still closer than PIA.

And even when you exclude the 79 corridor, there is also that brand new toll road that connects Southpointe to places west of the city like Robinson, Imperial, Moon, and even Sewickley.

Esmark being based out of New Ken absolutely without any doubt holds them back.

1 hour ago, forbin said:

They really should announce it and promote it prior to tryout announcements. Like within the next couple of weeks.

^ This.

Huge missed opportunity if they don't. 

1 hour ago, bb2j3z said:

News to me...  What's your source?   Seems they would have a lot of extra ice to rent with the Vipers booted from the location.

I'm guessing you mean the part about Esmark using ice at Printscape is news to you? That does seem kinda wild.

Is the second sheet at Printscape happening from what you've been told?

9 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

But will Black Bear be able to put together a coaching staff and practice model better than Esmark?  Obvious right now that kids are willing to travel to that awful place for good coaching! If they ever get 28 fixed it's not a bad drive from the South Hills!  Maybe if Black Bear can get Taibi from SHAHA to start a program at Southpointe it would be worth looking at.

They do own a USHL team, an NAHL team, and maybe even an EHL team. So that's like Tier I, Tier II, and Tier III junior teams. So they certainly have the capability, the question is whether they would devote the time/energy/resources to get it going.

1 hour ago, Ihearthockey said:

I think it's been said here ad nauseum, including by myself.  I think the location is the biggest issue here.  If Esmark were to move to Printscape or RMU or anywhere else for that matter, they'd get alot more interest.  My friend swears by the coaching and practice models (the opposite of what we've heard about other orgs).  He just hates driving out there.  

I agree completely. Good program, good coaching, good model, but with an awful location that will always hold them back. Especially with how/where the city has grown and developed the past 10-15 years.

If Esmark doesn't move (doubt they will) I think it's almost a foregone conclusion that Black Bear will start a Tier 1 program in a much better location like Southpointe. There's precedent for this with Black Bear. That would put a serious squeeze on SHAHA and Preds.