ice is cold

8 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Murry Gunty sounds like an idiot in that Twitter thread. He's confusing standings vs. rankings. They have completely different goals. Murry and the various Black Bear leagues were forced to use a KRACH rating (instead of traditional standings) because of the unbalanced schedule. They are using a KRACH (decent method) as an alternative for standings. They can't use standings because the schedules are unbalanced and different teams in the league play a different number of games. Just like in the NHL there are division standings but then all sorts of different media outlets put out their power rankings, and some of those power rankings are formula based.

Murry made the point that some team won three games over the weekend but dropped in rankings. How does he not understand that this is perfectly reasonable? Rankings are designed to be predictive and it's completely reasonable and plausible that depending on the competition you could win three games and still go down in rankings. Again, rankings are not the same as standings. Rankings are a predictive tool and helpful when traditional "standings" are not possible.

I don't think MHR has perfect methodology, but I'm not smart enough to come up with some superior formula. But it's just bizarre reading some of the comments from Murry.

The good thing is that all of this is testable. It will soon be evident which ranking methodology (MHR or Murry) have the best formula for most accurately ranking teams.

First, I am not a fan of Murry. But MHR's has flaws. If they would fix them this entire argument would be more ridiculous from Murey.

A few I can think of (not being able to do the algorithm myself)

MHR's will tell you anything should go in the system. Scrimmages where the game would not be USA sanctioned games (ie scrimmages where teams have 30 on the bench, or players who are not in their roster)... That is an issue when USA hockey uses it to rank team. Scrimmages are meant to try things, see things, not win per say. 

Teams who cancel games when they realize they need to "meet the spread" to not drop down... which became more prevalent during/after covid. They should penalized if it's a scheduled game to make it not happen 

MHR's has teams (who have that one parent or coach who has the time), to sit there and figure out who they need to play and "the spread to meet" to get "points" vs lose them. 

It's fine if you don't have those teams (one in pit, previous years, at some age groups, starts with a V) who spend more time trying to "work the system" vs just playing hockey. 

If MHR's would make small adjustments, or if they both would work together, it would be a better system. At the end of the day, it's ego vs ego.  

44 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Soooo........ now people should leave their school of choice (presumably for the academics) so they can be a top 9 forward or top 6 d on a different club team?

I thought they were student athletes which means academics as priority 1.

If this was football and they were athlete students - different story.

 

As I'm in agreement, I'm putting one of my previous post below...and I'll add, i'd question an academic advisor or coach who suggested my kid did differently. (Well, unless my kid was Crosby in the making, but we would know that way before college visits 🤣) 

----------

Just a thought here.... kids pick the college based on the college and the degrees they offer (crazy, I know) and are happy they have a club hockey team and can play the sport they love while getting the education they want at a campus that fits their personality and they are happy living there for 4 years 🤷🤔. I don't know about any of you, but I'd rather my kid come out with a good job vs trophy and a secured spot on the top beer league team. 

I've seen other teams successfully bring back a club hockey team after suspension or hiatus. It takes a lot of work and commitment from students, as club sports are ultimately run by them with their club sports director. Get a core of strong students, a list of potential players already on campus, prospective incoming freshman, possibly a donation lined up to offset some ice costs and hope the club sports director likes hockey 🤷 and isn't lazy.  Just my thoughts. 

48 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Who had unrealistic expectations?   Serious question too. Not an SV parent so I might have missed something. 

I have the same question, not sure what @sadday4hockeyis talking about. I am not an SV parent but am close to the organization. 🤔

2 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Well after the first couple weeks AAA scores are all over the map.  Almost looks like Rock Paper Scissors.  Seneca hasn't looked nearly as strong as I would have expected.  Player availability?  Who knows?

Looks like SV had 14 skaters, so player availability most likely played a role. 

8 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Danner, 

        IUP has a pretty good program and they should win the CHMA again. Pitt has a pretty good Program and will compete for the league title again. My point is they are top 10 Wannabees.

      It's all about recruiting locally and regionally as putting a solid group together of 26-27. SRU was well on their way until that got derailed, but the best these local schools can hope for is top 15 National Ranking based on their current model and schedule . 

What is the team average GPA and what are the jobs graduates are now in, that is the only stats that will matter after their 4 years 🤷😁

8 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Hey, there's always the Fed league. 

Id personally like my kid to graduate and not live at home.. lol. 

Just a thought here.... kids pick the college based on the college and the degrees they offer (crazy, I know) and are happy they have a club hockey team and can play the sport they love while getting the education they want at a campus that fits their personality and they are happy living there for 4 years 🤷🤔.  So tearing apart any club hockey teams performance is just a bit...... I don't know about any of you, but I'd rather my kid come out with a good job vs trophy and a secured spot on the top beer league team.  

2 hours ago, HereWithPopcorn said:

People have too much time on their hands

Most accurate, non arguable, post in years. 

24 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Anybody have any luck finding the ga

es on TenBandTV? 

From their Facebook page it looks like they are only streaming the championship game. But if you want to see last years they are promoting that 😂🤷. 

You can catch the games on livebarn. 

12 minutes ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

No it was the Foxes 09 (Group 3) beat the yetis (group 1)(Icemen team 2) 6-1. 
 

Foxes 09 up to AA and Yetis (Icemen team 2) down to A Major, IMO. 
 

Aviators 09 have a better shot at AA than Johnstown Warriors as well IMO

My bad. Had them backwards  I have not followed pahl for 6 years closely. But this year all I have heard from friends is it is a hit mess with placements. Maybe it's a new system. Lol 

5 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

You clearly do not need a roster to poach players.  

100% correct! By the time they reach 18U every player, coach, mom, ref, EMT, concession stand worker, and message board person knows where all of the 17/18 year old players are. 

6 hours ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

This won't stick, foxes 09's (division 3) beat yetis (division 1) 6-1 in a scrimmage this weekend. 

So the foxes (group 3) beat the yetis (group 5) 6-1. So may not stick is correct. Foxes may drop or yetis may move up a group depending on the following scrimmages 🤷

3 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

What does this mean? They have a roster listed on the website. Has it fallen apart since then?

They had 2 07 teams last year. They are only having 1 this season. Not sure I'd consider the players who didn't make the current team when they went down to 1 an influx of super talent into PAHL teams. 

4 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

If your parents throw in 10k a piece (likely less then they are paying for faux AAA at lower levels)  a couple sponsorships get you all the ice you need and your parents might even save money based on travel + whatever they were doing before. 

According to their website, which I can't figure out the math...all they pay for is exhibition and housing (so id assume no one is moving for this, so Pittsburgh players)

Earn around $150-$250 per week in salary

Travel (transportation, food and lodging) provided 

Zero fees, other than during the exhibition season ($20 per skate)

Up to 4 uniform sets 

Maximum of playing and practicing 3 days a week

Games played during the weekends

Bonuses awarded for performance, playoff wins and team sales 

Detailed stat tracking, will be on Elite Prospects 

All games filmed and live-streamed 

All-Star Game, Stadium Game, Outdoor game and International Game

25 skater spots and 3 goalie spots on every team

Up to 20 teams in the league 

Region heavy travel 

1 hour ago, forbin said:

From what I can tell it’s full contact traveling beer league? I really don’t understand the draw to that from a player or a fan perspective but to each their own I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️.

 

I guess if you are playing beer league now and can get paid $150/game vs a 6-pack it is compelling. From a fan perspective.... I've got nothing.... 

12 minutes ago, Wes said:

Good question.  Never heard of that name in regards to hockey.

 

Facebook tells me he has a younger son who plays at NP, maybe he is making sure he has a semi pro future. Lol 

Looks like the owner is jaison kelly per their website. Go ahead and Google, would love to hear everyone's first thoughts. 

12 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Found the Icemen parent. 

Nope. Just not a negative, upset, winney, need something to complain about to make myself feel superior  adult. 

17 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Much of that is rectified by knowing the coach coming in to the season. As mentioned earlier, there are some really good coaches in PAHL.  I don’t think that stigma is on PAHL.  That is a coaching issue.

Which would make it an organization in PAHL issue, hence a PAHL issue as the orgs are in PAHL.  😁

1 minute ago, YardSale said:

Which part of PAHL AA do you not like?  Is it the fact that all the teams schedule their own independent games instead of having an extended league like BB? 

I don't know how to articulate this with words that don't sound like I'm putting down PAHL, which isn't my intention. I just don't think they have had the leadership that gave anyone confidence that they understood what the market was looking for as it pertains to a higher level of competitiveness, not only on the ice, but everything else that went with it. Again, some players want to play on a team where kids don't skip practice to get ice cream with their GF.  (Could you imagine an esmark player doing that). So just because a kid may not be esmark worthy, they may still want to play with that same commitment level from their coach, team, and player parents. PAHL and AA associations (some, not all) in PAHL have a stigma that missing practices and games for ice cream with your GF is ok. (using that as a sarcastic, but has happened) statement to articulate the stigma. Don't come at me. If it happens at 25% of AA teams in PAHL, it is enough to cause the stigma. And it certainly happens a ton at all other levels at PAHL. 

1 minute ago, YardSale said:

I go back and forth on split season.  I’ve talked to Ohio coaches who hate their situation and think all their kids are at a disadvantage aver other states.  Grass is greener?  I don’t know.  

Everyone move to Minnesota. Lol. They seem to have it right 😁 

I don't think I like split season, but have only witnessed it from the outside. I guess if that is all you know it may not be bad. Then again, it may make it worse. 

1 minute ago, YardSale said:

I’m under no illusion that I have an answer.  My approach is make AA as competitive as possible in this region to entice as many kids as possible to play in it.  You approach is more top-down.  I’d love for that to happen but I don’t see that happening in the near term. I hope I’m wrong.

The answer to that is move AA hockey out of PAHL or develop a different structure within PAHL for AA. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a black bear fan, but they beat everyone to that move. They beat PAHL to something they should have and could have owned. 

6 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Are you talking split season?

I don't know the answers. Spilt season, just making HS hockey an actual school vs club sport. Either way, I think there are too many egos and not enough people in the right seats to move it forward at this point. 

10 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Ok, I implied hockey, my fault.  
 

I still believe we should do everything we can to further hockey in our area and not ship all our talent all over the country to play. Perhaps that is the idealist in me wanting to make things better for the next generation but that is what I believe.

That wont happen until HS hockey reaches a higher level of play, respect and league management (PIHL). It will take a complete change in mentality from HS, PIAA, PIHL, and amateur teams, staring with Pens Elite (not bringing in players from everywhere but Pittsburgh) and their redic Excel hockey. That's something you can all complain about and I'll be right there with you.