lferg

Local basketball camps got cleared to open as of tomorrow in Pittsburgh. How would hockey be any more risky? Shouldnt all the rinks be open too?

And if the kids are exposes to other activities would the delay in hockey make any difference?

9 hours ago, Ihearthockey said:

Pretty sure RMU Hockey Academy is doing this stuff for free.  

I couldn't find anything on their website. May be I am looking in the wrong place...

3 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

https://mailchi.mp/1ea3359ca588/train-at-home-with-tyler-kennedy

 

TK doing trainings via Zoom

That is it. Thanks for sharing.

Does anyone know if there are any online in-home instructor-led classes with hockey specific drills for kids?

Cost for tryouts and yearly fee difference between all the organization’s? Are they all about the same? - the simple answer is YES.

Exceptions are AAA team, which likely don't apply to person who is asking. Otherwise you would know the answer...

What is different, is what you get for this "about the same cost".

If you are at the beginner level, then comparing on cost difference is not worth it. More on a convenience and "where friends go". If you decide to compare on true cost, then you need to factor in the following:

A. Total Program Fee (all fees, including teem fund, uniform, club fees, etc. Do not include travel fees/costs)

B. Total number of Instructional Hours (Ice practices + games + off-ice instructions)

Get the Cost Per Instructional Hour A/B. Before making conclusion, consider adjusting for C and D:

C. Professional Vs Non Professional coaches/Skills instructions (depending on how YOU feel about it. For example, you may decide that extra $5 per Instructional Hour worth the Pro Coach option.)

D. Convenience. Cost (gas, time) to cover the distance from your house to a rink. For example, if you plan to bring your kid to 100 practices/games in a season, the difference in cost/convenience between the 10-min away rink, and 1hr away rink would be huge. And of course time: drive + dress up + practice = you stuck at the ring Vs dropped off, go home, come back later to pick up....

You are right, I didn't. Thanks for clarifying. No harm intended. 

At least I discovered a new fan! Sad one, but very attentive ... ?

12U (2007/2008) - Pitt area Tier 1 standing.

I should have probably exclude some of the PAHL teams from the list. But since their ranking is higher than some Tier 1 teams, left them in. Not exactly sure if the ranking comparable between tiers.

Team    Division/Tier    MHR - 27-Nov
Pittsburgh Penguins Elite (Hannan) 07 AAA (PA)    07 - Tier 1    97.37
Pittsburgh Penguins Elite (Conway) 08 AAA (PA)    08 - Tier 1    92.59
Pittsburgh Vengeance 08 AAA (PA)    08 - Tier 1    91.23
SOUTH HILLS 324    12U AA    90.57
Pittsburgh Penguins Elite (Stern) 07 AAA (PA)    07 - Tier 1    89.58
NORTH PGH 456    12U AA    88.91
ALLEGHENY 236    12U AA    88.79
FOXES 273    12U AA    88.07
ERIE 502    12U A Major Black    87.50
HUSKIES 351    12U AA    87.40
Pittsburgh Penguins Elite (Nelson) 08 AAA (PA)    08 - Tier 1    87.18

Good feedback. Thanks all.

Couple things can be done here. One, is to see how placement is done in other associations of comparable size. And second, is to survey the coaches toward the end of the season.

Who knows may be PAHL is doing this already...

Dazed, thank you for point of view. I don't think the confidence you have in PAHL placement would be equally shared by, for example, Erie 502 and Wheeling 507, or Southpoint 478 and Foxes 277.  These teams are so far apart in skill level, that it's way beyond the "grey" area. Playing each other would simply degrade the definition of having fun for either side.

You are a hockey parent, place yourself in their shoes. You have to drive your kid 3hr one way to the game with almost certain worst possible outcome, and serious goal differential...  Explain to these 35 kids and their parents that there is no issues with their placement...

As mentioned above in the thread, some of these teams have tried to change their placement. Apparently, there wasn't enough time, or information, or other controls in this process to make it happen.

I think as a first step it's important to recognize that current placement process needs improvement. Denying that in the presence of factual numerical evidence is not very productive. As for helping the PAHL placement committee to improve their processes, as I mentioned above, this very post and feedback received is your and my and other folks contribution.

As far as not using MHR, sorry, but you are not correct. The scores are submitted as of Aug 25, and include PAHL placement games. It is the most accurate publicly available source for determining team skill level. I can't speak for the entire site, but I am yet to find any discrepancy in reported games for Tier 2 12U PAHL group.

4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

@lferg can you do the same for 18u 16u 14u to see if it is consistently off?   Does PAHL get it right or "righter" as the kids get older?

You might struggle at 14u with what to do with AA Minor teams and where they should fit among the other divisions.  AA Minor is such a bad idea and maybe lferg can show it.

Sorry Jack, didn't planned to crunch numbers for the entire association. All you need to do is to get the list of teams from PAHL standing page, and add rankings from MyHockey site, then sort by ranking.

I am not stating that PAHL gets it wrong every time at every age group. I am simply gathering feedback and ideas on possible improvements to placement process where it make sense. 

So far, the facts show that placement could have been done better. Not perfect, but better. I think the reason 2 placement game model fails here is because we are looking at 40+ teams for this age group. If there would be 20 or less teams, 2 games and "prior history" might have been enough to get it right. But with 40+ teams in the mix, it is just not working.

The appeal process, is not working well either for 2 reasons. The coaches are limited by two key factors: first, "prior history" statistics may be available to PAHL, but not to coaches. With only 2 games behind, and no other info, coaches would be hesitant to make a call on the move (up or down). Too many unknowns at the time the appeal must happen. Second, even if they decide to appeal placement, they depend on agreement of other teams from upper division to scrimmage them.  And I know for a fact, that there were situations where teams just couldn't get anyone to agree to scrimmage them. In that case, the appeal has no ground, and team is stuck where it was placed. 

That part of the process can also be improved either by assigning mandatory additional placement scrimmage, or else how. Otherwise, it's really not an option, but more of a chance...

2 hours ago, PuckHead7 said:

I would also like to see another analysis later in the season.  One of the comments about stated that some teams have zero or only a win or two, how could they be placed correctly?  I say, for every winner, there is a loser.  Look at any divisions in any league. Top will have close to all wins and bottom close to all losses.  Still think PAHL goes a fairly good job and agree that (sometimes) when it doesn’t, parents or coaches had influence.

The same analysis later on in the season will not be as good for highlightting shortcomings of the placement process, because teams are now limited (for the most part) to playing within the division. This will result in swinning the team ranking toward division average.

For example, Erie 502 could be easily compeeting in AA division, and have a great competitive season playing teams at their level. But due to placement into A Major Black, they will have to play lower skilled teams in Black division. Even if they win, their ranking will go down, not up. As a result, comparing based on ranking later on in the season will only confirm the claim that placement process is "working" as expected, which is not the case.

As for misuse of MHR, hard to beleive that too many teams would engage in number rigging. There are 32 possible pairs of eyes for each score entered. Abuse may happen, but likely not to the extend that would deem it unreliable. Not sure.

More placement games would definitely help to improve situation.

And I wouldnt be raising this question if not for such a significant placement miss. Based on  nimbers 11 out of 41 teams are not in the right division.

There are teams who lost nearly every game. For them, the placement couldnt be any further off, and it would be hard to make a case for these kids that its all aboit fun...

Regarding My Hockey ranking. To my knowledge this is the best publicly available source of stats. Surprisingly, it is up to date, and have game stats for all League games, scrimmages, plus tornaments for team way into 700 rank (all A Major teams). Much more reliable than PAHL standings for determining overall team level.

Most teams have played 15+ games by now. Looking at 12U stats it appears that 25% of teams are not playing in the optimal division. Playing too high, or too low for their level. Either scenario has negative impact on players. They either don’t get to play at the level they deserve, or loose most of the games…
Wondering if PAHL placement process should be revisited and improved? Such large mis-placement should not be the norm?

Thoughts?

I would recommend to go for a small group skills practice (NE, TK, PD, and so on), and talk to the Instructor ahead of time (phone/email). Often they are receptive to requests, in the absence of a very specific progressive program, since the mix of participants changes all the time. They would include a few drills for a specific area, such as this one.

May not be 100% up to day, but will give you a good start. IMHO, the last one has the best value for the money (lots of options / days). But it all depends on how far drive you have, and a few other factors.

Advanced Edge Hockey   http://www.aehockey.com/pricing.htm
Frozen Pond   https://www.frozenpondarena.com/summer
IC Hockey   http://ichockey.net/lessons/
INTEREL Hockey Academy    www.interelhockeyacademy.com/application-form/
National Elite Hockey   https://nationalelitehockey.com/camps/skateskills/
Next Step Hockey   http://www.nextstephockey.com
PHD - Brad Michalski    www.premierhockeydevelopment.org
Playmakers Hockey   http://www.playmakershockeyco.com/On-Ice-Lessons.html
Quest Hockey   http://www.questhockey.com/lessons/
RMU   https://www.rmuislandsports.com/page/show/3559515-elite-skating-and-game-skills
SCE    facebook or txt/phone only?
TK   https://www.tktrainingschedule.com/
UPMC Pens   https://www.upmclemieuxsportscomplex.com/skillsprograms

Don't neglect off ice development. Hockey USA has an excellent guide on age appropriate set of exercises on their website. Unfortunately, this is a missing part of hockey development in most of the local organizations. But you can easily do it at home.

On 8/31/2019 at 1:41 PM, Ihearthockey said:

Altoona 254 (team 1) over NP 456 (team 1) 5 to 3

Is this NP 1 - 12U which has half of players from last year Pens Elite?

I heard North Pittsburgh had to close tryout registration sooner for 10u travel teams due to high number of skaters. Is this a one off case or similar situation in other PAHL orgs? Wondering if it's another unusual birth year with lots of players or some other factor...

These are number of players participared in PPE tryouts, broken by BY, how many made Team 1, 2, alternate list, and didn't make it (0). For this year and last year.

You are correct, any post tryout exodus changes are not reflected here.

There is a good amount of tryout float, as well as new inflow, in each BY from year to year. The below numbers are based on the published tryout results (not based on actual rosters). May be helpful. 

Thank you for recommendations. Tough instructors are fine. Looking to identify weak spots, provide corrections, and then reinforce it all.

Planning to work on hockey skating technique improvements for my son (Pee-Wee) over the summer. Considering options with personalized attention, corrections, and reinforcement over a few weeks, or some other format. I know RMU has a list of Instructors, and PPE offers private sessions. But, I don't know anyone specifically. Will appreciate any suggestions/recommendations regarding local instructors/places who do this type of work.

2 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

You are. Not funny. Besides, if you're in need of the hockey scholarship to play AAA hockey here are two things to consider 1) How do you plan to pay for the other expenses? 2) Have you considered another sport or just rec hockey?

Funny or not, there are working models out there where either the state or large businesses subsidizing/sponsoring advanced athletes and/or organizations. 

The point is, the cost of running the sport organization is not going to go down ever, unless you give in on quality, safety, or development standards. But the affordability of the sport to parents (the amount we have to pay) can be reduced. 

56 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Where is that? 

North Korea ?, China, Russia, possibly some other European countries. 

I believe PPE also offer different kinds of scholarships.

AAA hockey is free in some places. Things are not that bad...