ChiefKeef

15 minutes ago, stickboy said:

Why do you keep posting this like it’s new info. We already had a 2 page thread discussing it in detail.  I guess it didn’t get your attention because PPE wasn’t in the title?

https://twitter.com/AAHAGlenn/status/1609970697224306689/photo/1

https://twitter.com/AAHAGlenn/status/1609970697224306689/photo/1

 

Vengeance, Esmark, Blackbear, the Armstrong Arrows….. I don’t care.  No excuse for the above.  Time for someone else to step up and try their hand with the majority of locals.  

3 hours ago, Puck01 said:

 I go back to PPE is a private organization. Like it or not & I am anything but a fan of PPE for the record. They have a very clear model. We can either complain or be part of the solution. On one hand people complain that BB is coming in & buying all the rinks who will hopefully compete with PPE. On the other hand, we do not like how the PPE does business & it will magically change with 13,000 social media posts..... Ya & the easter bunny is real also!

 All positions should be heard & respected, but this is getting bat shit crazy. There is no organization that is close to competing with PPE because we have week AAA organizations. The Vengeance has the facility but week board, SHAHA has great board but horrible facility, Preds I think they just forgot to drop the 3rd A for some reason & Esmark needs an entire program but still is a pretty tough location to get to for most even if started at a mite age group. Either solve this issue, support BB coming in to compete with PPE or get off your ass & help build something that can compete with PPE that way kids have another option to play high level AAA hockey in PGH! 

What’s the point of a public discussion forum if we are going to subjugate the topics? 

Maybe parents read the thread about why refs are quitting and they get some honest perspective from people who were in the trenches so to speak.  Maybe some of those people look at their own behaviors in the rink and reconsider. 

54 minutes ago, Jkersman01 said:

For someone who is claiming to not make statements unless you have facts to back them up, what you got on me? I’m most certainly not an employee. I was just asking questions and giving my thoughts on this topic. Show me one quote of mine where I’m defending the program? I actually agree with a good bit of what you’re saying. You’re just too blinded by rage on this topic to tolerate any comments that aren’t scathing hatred for PPE. I can play that game where I guess who you are too if you want. I’d prefer this not be personal at all, so please don’t make it that. 

Your replies here are largely directed at me.  You are one of the people extenuating this conversation.  I haven’t posted in this topic for like 4 months? Nor was I the one who bumped it to the top again with fresh posts….the receipts are all there….. Hardly blind rage,  I think my posts are articulate and concise.  Your inability to process how someone could have an argument against something you view favorably isn’t my problem. 

For the sake of this degrading any further.  I’m going to continue to have a discussion.  Let’s avoid each other then, yes?  We don’t seem to agree and it’s probably for the best.  When I make a post,  don’t come out of the wood work.  Best of luck to you. 

Do they even have the ability to?  Does Esmark?  Everyone and their mother is in Cranberry for the most part.  Not to say there isn’t talented kids at all programs but let’s call a spade a spade into who has what to work with. 

You make a lot of great points and it’s good advice. 

I don’t agree with having to find that one coach, or one off solution.  Which is what most people do.  Yes it’s a better outlet than dealing with the other crap.  I just think it’s well past time that a legit option outside of Cranberry ramp up.  I named a few Vengeance coaches,  who you can’t dispute the pedigree of,  and I pointed out their location and facilities.  Common sense says this would be a starting point.  Not personal bias towards the Vengeance.  I’d be pumping up Esmark’s bantam and midget dealings too if they had a better location.  That rink being where it is can be a deterrence.  Vengeance and Esmark is where the kids who leave generally go to.  Who else is in the mix for those kids?   
 

I suggested way back that people at ALL of the clubs around town are sitting around watching Cranberry do what they do,  pissing and moaning about it then doing nothing about it. And that there needs to be a meeting of minds,  the facility to handle it and probably a rebrand.  

4 hours ago, forbin said:

It’s “not” mandatory, but it is. They don’t care about the talented kid that can’t afford it. That kid just ends up at Esmark/Vengeance.

Yes.  There’s many facets to this and they operate on a case by case bases that best suits their needs.  
 

I believe there was an 08 goalie situation where they had two very good goalies.  One left (you don’t say) for a prep school because they just wanted to leave altogether .  The other was going to leave because they didn’t want to do the academy .  So the one goalie was allowed to not participate and probably still operate within the program like a normal kid. That would have been disastrous if both kids left.  
 

I’ve heard stories of kids electing not to do it,  and they didn’t have a recruit lined up,  then that kid basically gets treated like a third rate citizen both on and off the ice.  Being made to get dressed in locker rooms by themselves. You can’t make this crap up.  Then they will spend that season recruiting your replacement,  who will buy in to the program fully. 

That mid am link really pissed some of you off.  This thread is 6 months old.  Now all of the sudden it’s a problem lol 

9 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

ChiefKeef, tell me how PPE hurt you? There has to be an emotional and personal story behind your endless diatribe. I'm not saying that some of what you are preaching isn't true, but man this is getting exhausting

Hardly the time of year for spurned parents.  Nor am I associated with any specific programs.  I do know too much though,  clearly… for some of your liking.  Last time I checked this is a discussion forum. Just lamenting the same talking points and concerns that most people have in private.  And I’m replying to others on the topic.  You and the two people who liked your post,  with accounts that are barely used,  can check out another thread and ignore this discussion? 
 

Or are the things being brought up hurting you emotionally,  maybe hitting close to home?  I don’t know. And if not,  is the crap going on in Cranberry not worth having a discussion about?  You seem to have healthy opinions on other clubs so I’m guessing no?  You were borderline pitching a tent over the Predators a few pages back. Start a Preds thread.  Not all of us want to dig into discussion about some local high school players and parents fight. 
 

Feel free to avoid the thread,  my friend. 

5 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

I would like to know where excel  and having to have a catholic education fit in to devoloping a good hockey player? Couldn't just be the money, could it? 

I’ve largely left my personal opinion out of my posts if I don’t have some kind of resource to back it up.  But I’ll tell you right now having your kid on the ice 3-4 hours a day,  working out 2 hours a day,  3 days a week__ being involved in this program from 8am until 8-9pm a night  …. and then an hour and 20 ice time and an hour work out for the 4th day a week (non practice night) is not healthy.  Add trying to keep up with a private education in between all of that. The tagline is that it’s preparing them for junior and college hockey.  No junior or college hockey team,  or pro team including anything and everything leading up to the NHL or European leagues__ does anything close to 3 hours on the ice,  2 hours working out,  then adding in trying to keep up with school between all that.  There are 6 days a month where they don’t have a hockey obligation,  talk to any sports therapist or hell,  a therapist in general,  a pediatrician anyone with qualifications and ask them if they think that’s healthy for a teenagers mental or physical well being.  6 days a month to be a normal kid,  have variety,  spend time with family, and even then you’re probably trying to get school work done on those days. 

It’s a way to fill up ice slots at the rink,  bring in funding to the rink and justify some inflated salaries.  It’s truly disgusting  because they’re doing it knowing it’s way overboard and no in kids best interest.  Then add in the financial part of it for the parents.  It’s borderline criminal to have people thinking this is normal.  It’s not and most other hockey programs around the country,  most of which having reputable results for helping kids into junior,  college and pro hockey aren’t doing this crap. 
 

Then you take into consideration this https://twitter.com/AAHAGlenn/status/1609970697224306689/photo/1 and not only does it make you question if all that is worth it,  it also begs the question of less is more,  and other areas with programs who aren’t demanding all that are having better results as a result.  Kids having more balanced lifestyles.  

They sell the dream harder than anyone.  

 

however: https://twitter.com/AAHAGlenn/status/1609970697224306689/photo/1

I haven’t brought the phrase individual success into it until someone brought it up.  There’s many different versions of success in youth hockey.  Sometimes it’s a young kid grinding it out to make a team,  and learn a life long lesson.  I never said if you don’ make juniors,  or D1,  that you are a failure.  I’m simply saying that the hockey program you work for is largely a failure.  Not the kids.  You don’t have nearly the amount of kids making the jump and it shows in every single metric that’s available.  
 

Other Tier 1 organizations absolutely have their problems, politics, scheming etc.  Cranberry has all of that on steroids,  and perform horribly to boot.  It’s one thing to go to a place like,  ohhh let’s say Honeybaked,  and deal with the politics.  But you can’t argue their long term results either.  They move kids along.  Up until the name change this last season.  

You can make an argument that 50% of squirts won’t be D1 athletes in a given group.  For sure.  Who said the team stays the same,  it’s a focus locals and maybe other kids come into the picture later on. 
 

The 06 team in Cranberry lost a few to the Pittsburgh kids playing on Cleveland last year,  they’re currently getting beat consecutively by a group of Pittsburgh kids from Shaha.  Last years 06 pens team What?  2 Pittsburgh players.  This year has 1.  

Why is there literally a mural on the wall about the path to pro hockey with pictures of a mite , to squirt, etc all the way to Sidney Crosby.  All kids in their jerseys until the junior and college hockey player then Crosby.  Don’t tell me the dream isn’t being sold there,  or that the customers don’t have intent on following that path. 

Outside of player advancement pages that are grasping for straws… this is the most damning evidence against Cranberry.  There’s no disputing this and there’s really no excuse for it.  
 

https://twitter.com/AAHAGlenn/status/1609970697224306689/photo/1

*specifically the first section or photo in upper left hand corner. 

Then research who the largest (by far) program is in the Midam district, with the most amount of kids that play hockey.  
 

…

1.Why don’t you take a look around at other programs nationwide and see what they do in terms of moving kids on,  to both juniors and college.  Some for a fraction of the cost.   
 

2.Moving up the ladder is difficult sure.  Seems like most other programs of equal and lesser size have a much better idea of how to equip kids for that challenge. 
 

3.More than 17 in 11 years,  that you can definitively say you had a significant hand in.  That number becoming more convoluted when you take into consideration it includes employees kids,  goalies,  and 3 members of one family from West Mifflin. 
 

4.I never really said anything about the pro’s other the posters on the wall are all hornets products and pointing out their success with pros.  My argument is based on the D1 commitments. If you are struggling with where this thread is going then surely you would struggle with why people would be paying upwards of 30k a season for their children to play ice hockey ‘for fun’ or ‘for recreation’.  I’m struggling to understand how you even made that statement in earnest.  If you did. 
 

Strip back the layers until you find transparency into the core of players and families intentions for playing (and paying) in Cranberry and you will find every single one of them has intentions of moving on to junior and or college hockey.  But you already knew that.  They certainly use that as bar for success as they have a player advancement page and just about every other tweet is trying to attach their name to someone who’s moved out of their program. Albeit mostly girls hockey alumni.  
 

What they charge people,  the time commitment required,  14-18 year olds spending their entire day in Cranberry between school then straight to the rink until 8-9 at night is not worth it based on their results.  The cost of the academy,  the season cost,  the travel cost,  even down to needing the kid to eat dinner at the rink every night.  Doesn’t take a mathematician to see what a losing proposition all of that is.  Like I said,  way back in August.  There’s teams in eastern PA playing in a 40 year old rink with leaking roof__ where kids are on the ice 3 nights a week (only) and they outperform Cranberry in player progression. 
 

I mean what more do kids in Cranberry need to do___ get hyperbaric chambers at home to sleep in? 

There is undoubtedly a lot of talent there. Year over year, a ton of talented kids.  More so than what some other areas have to choose from.  Why are the player advancement metrics so skewed in the opposite direction of the other areas that don’t have that talent pool though?  That’s the point. 

Another name worth adding to the mix is Matt Herr who was out due to his desired focus on the locals.  Or the current 06 on the NTDP team who left early. 

With all due respect,  can we make a Preds thread if necessary?  

I disagree.  Harmarville is located off of 28 or accessed by the turnpike and they have the facility to make it work.  You’re making a sacrifice with time between there or Cranberry either way.  

 I’m talking providing all current high level athletes the prospect of actual development with a heavy focus on local kids.  
 

On 1/25/2023 at 3:32 PM, ChiefKeef said:

 

On 1/26/2023 at 8:55 PM, Danner27 said:

Some left while he was still at the mission, others when they knew he was leaving the program for dead.  Two western pa kids went to team Illinois after they had enough of the him & You know who at ppe. One of these kids ended up in the ushl, the other in the nahl. If they make it to ncaa d1 I’m sure ppe will put up signs ab

Yeah I’ve heard about his days in Chicago.  There’s a trend with people getting fed up with him.  The entire 06 crew from Pittsburgh drives their children to Cleveland to avoid the guy.  He’s pulled the same shtick everywhere he’s been.  And programs have suffered as a result.  

We aren’t talking about the talented Preds and Shaha players needing to drive to Alpha.  They’ve made their choice to stay where they are. That’s fine. 
 

We are discussing who’s best positioned to be a competitor for the kids already driving to Cranberry from virtually everywhere around town.  Those parents will make the trip wherever they need to.  
 

So the south hills and whoever is not wanting to drive wherever is irrelevant. 

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I know a decent amount of kids from 99’s down to 04’s that left the mission for team Illinois. 

Interesting, wasn’t that in line with the time Cranberry’s current grifter was there?  Before he was brought in to town.  Though he wasn’t the only problem in that space either.  Surely he sharpened his grifting skills there though. 
 

Unfortunately when things go awry in Cranberry,  as they so often do.  The kid leaves,  a group of kids leave and resort to acceptance that that program can’t be changed.  A lot of people focus on a personal solution,  or resort to these one off scenarios or resolutions where it doesn’t help the people coming after them,  who or are going to be prone to the same experience. It’s really time for people to start speaking up and looking to help the community as a whole.  A lot of us care about the families and kids who are coming up and don’t want to see them get caught in the same traps others have. 

13 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

ChiefKeef do you have any ideas as to how to create a competitor to the Pens Elite!  You have all valid points for sure.  Do you think Black Bear can create a better option?  The second and third best options as far as a total program are Esmark and Vengenance right now.  Can those programs get stronger to compete with PE or do we need another option?  

You seem to have very strong opinions and have done some research on the subject.  Just curious for mites and squirts coming up.

First and foremost someone needs to step in with that program and get rid of the toxic elements of it.  There’s a lot of data out there to justify that. 
 

Any ideas I have wouldn’t be divulged on a public forum. I know full on how an honest well meaning hockey program can operate.  With eyes on development over meaningless national titles.  Most importantly hiring the right people. 
 

Regarding black bear _ if they wanted to, yes.  The Chicago Mission were the cream of the crop for a very long time in Chicago.  Coincidentally,  or maybe not (wink),  people grew tired of their crap.  While it wasn’t anything near what’s going on in Pittsburgh,  the people there still found it to be troublesome.  The Chicago Reapers were created and people jumped ship from the mission without hesitation.  The Reapers however were able to present that ‘grand’ perception of being a big time program.  That’s a credit to their PR and marketing people.  People were so desperate for change there,  even Windy City who is a small time operation has usurped the mission in most birth years. That would be black bears starting point, coming in with something newer and some core fundamentals around limiting outside player  involvement.  Having good people involved would sell itself. 
 

The vengeance are currently equipped to take on Cranberry kids fully.  They have 3 sheets,  they have a reputable staff there,  and they largely focus on Pittsburgh kids already.  If anyone could justify recruiting all over the world,  it would be them as they only have so much to work with locally.  To my knowledge they just built a new facility for the kids with a basketball court and fitness areas.  Thought I don’t know if that project is finished yet. 

Put it this way. What over rides the fascination with wearing a pro teams jersey and a corporate styled modern rink is the parent ego.  If people were educated on what they were getting involved with__ I know with out a doubt they would forsake the bravado of the program we are discussing.  Harmarville would be fine.  The kids becoming better hockey players is number one on the heart of every parent out there.  

prime example: the prospective first year squirt parent sees the rankings.  Have no idea how they work.  They see top 5-10 squirt through peewee teams in Cranberry.  What they don’t know is that most other cities do no consolidate their ‘best players’ on to one team until peewee minor,  or more often then not pee-wee major.  Even then,  bigger towns have competition,  they often don’t have the luxury of having every stud seeking out one program.  So having top 5-10 squirt and peewee teams is a nice credit to the talent of kids from Pittsburgh… it doesn’t have anything to do with long term success of the program in question or those players development prospects. They simply have the advantage of having all or most of the top players together in that time frame,  when most other teams don’t.  So naturally they are going to be a top ranked team.  I don’t know that there’s been a squirt team from Cranberry that’s finished lower than 7-8 in the rankings since 2012.  It’s easy street.  Look how they all ended up though,  that’s where the truth is.  The 2006 birthyear was just as high as anyone with the ranking through out the years…. As I mentioned…. There’s currently ONE PITTSBURGH kid left. 
 

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors. 
 

I do have strong opinions but I’d like to point out that most of them are based on fact.  I speak in  jest at times,  to poke some fun.  Because some of the clowns in question get on this forum and act well,  like clowns.  However everything I’m saying is available by way of independent research.  The results on player advancement,  the rosters and the turn over on them year to year starting mostly at bantam major,  sometimes bantam minor through midget major.  I’ll say it again there is currently a midget team there with ONE Pittsburgh born kid on it.  You’ve seen the stories in this thread,  Voit and many others like him moving out of PA who haven’t been mentioned due to being minors,  entire birthyears leaving and going to Harmarville or driving their kids two hours away to Cleveland.

With the right group of people,  and funding,  that shouldn’t be that hard to combat lol. 
 

Regarding Esmark,  I respect their longevity and the people there trying to make it work.  I just don’t think that location is going to serve them on a grand scale.  They have carved out a space in the community with what they have. I can’t see them growing past what they are now.  
 

23 minutes ago, Paul Baxter said:

@ChiefKeef Thanks for contributing to the forum.  However, drop the profanities from your posts.  No more profanities.  Got it??

 

@forbin FYI

I will leave those out moving forward.  I understand.  Thanks. 

The weird part is,  nobody really wants to come here.  Yet they still have an unwavering obsession with recruiting.  They shot their shot to become the next Mount or Shattuck and they air balled it.    The model has been stagnate for years,  with no game changers and nothing near success in terms of USA hockey championships for all that recruiting of outside kids. More often than not, the kids that do end up here are here for a season and then they leave.  Only to be replaced by more unsuspecting outside kids.  You can take a look at the rosters year over year on their website,  after squirt and peewee it’s a revolving door.  The hilarious part is they even fuck over the kids that they bring in lol  Don’t put any effort into them.  Just throw them out on the ice 4 hours a day and go through the motions.  Those families ultimately regret their decision and leave.  Next recruiting class in.  Rinse and repeat.  Not to mention the added benefit of having way more names to try to take credit for… you know… even if they were there for one season. 

There’s a trend now with kids from California or west US and Canada.  One California kid just quit on them mid season and went home due to a coach and the program in general.  Seems the US market has largely caught on to the act.  Why else go to Sweden and hold excel summer camps?  Then recruit players.  It wreaks of desperation. 
 

The only logical reason for any of this is these guys like there inflated salaries,  they like not having to truly put effort in to developing kids,  and the model they use allows them to call in outside kids at older ages,  when there lack of development starts to show with the locals,  so they can keep the teams somewhat competitive in the rankings and basically just mail it in and continue to make a lot of money.

Hockey2020 keeps saying there’s lines out the door for squirts.  If he isn’t giving himself away with that statement… my god.  No lines out the door for bantams and midgets.  Just the easy targets… the fundraisers.  

 

11 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I saw one that said "My kid is Elite.  Pittsburgh Penguins Elite".   On A first year squirt dad's car. Spewed my coffee. 

They won’t be elite for long.  Ignorance is bliss.  Just wait until the LA Jr kings recruits show up. 

9 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

What happened to Ray Conway?   I thought he always coached at PPE too but suddenly gone. 

Ray had morals. 

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Not Ty Voit. I didn’t realize he was an 03’. He may be better than the kid I am talking about. But the kid I am talking about, if not better than Ty is the second best 03’ out of Pittsburgh but was cut from top 03’ team and placed on Black. No way that should have ever happened. He is making his way still. I think he has a shot a D1 still. But he was passed over by the USHL where there is no doubt he could have played. I hope they both have great careers ahead of them. 
 

And Marc Voit is a really good skating coach. Don’t know much about him as a bench coach. But he can teach skating for sure. 

Not a surprise to anyone.  Many such stories.  Best of luck to that player and his journey.  Hopefully he has managed to make positive outcomes out of his negative experience with Cranberry.  Learning to avoid the snakes is essential. 

Yeah I don’t know his father personally but I’ve heard the way they talk about him.  Like he was the problem.  If I were him I’d be sending the director cease and desist letters on using his child’s likeness to promote the program. 
 

Then we all found out what a bunch of thunder cunts they are.  So again, that guy deserves a statue for going against the machine.  Right down on 5th Ave.