ChiefKeef

Yeah and honestly, every other birthyear after has felt the pain of the methods it took to create the 2003 saga. They’re still pulling the same shit. Because they’re on easy street with not having to work to develop kids and the model allows them to just bring good players in when necessary to replace their lack of effort in the locals. THE GRIFT

Would that be Ty Voit who has led the OHL in points at times throughout this past season? Who the pens treated like dirt so he left… Yet they use him to credit themselves as one of their success stories… it’s all a fucking joke. But the real issues are finally being identified and all the dirty deeds are coming out. Better late than never.

So many kids in this town currently being conditioned to think they are what they are when in reality they just aren’t receiving the education that kids from other areas are. Exploit local 9-12 year olds and fund the program with their money for a while. Then oh darn, you aren’t having the success at 14 that others are having from other towns… good luck see ya! OR OOPS SORRY the kid we recruited from Sweden is better than you, so you’re going to take a backseat to him, sorry! Who is evaluating that programs performance metrics? Who is deciding that the format there is working and worth the astronomical cost and time commitment from families? I guess what I’m asking is when performance evaluation time comes up __ do hollow rankings, that can be gamed regardless of wins and losses rule all? Is the success rate of player development even taken into consideration or is that a metric. I mean maybe the pro team just likes the money but even then they could still pull all those funds and have reputable qualified people operating the program who are actually helping to grow their customer loyalty and fundamentally developing players. Would be a win win for pro team. Somebody needs to do better.

I can only speak from memory. Unfortunately the hornets info does not exist online anymore. If it ever did? That’s pretty common knowledge, their successes, I’m sure you know that. Or you can use the current teams player advancement site, where a lot of the names were players who were mostly developed by the hornets. Not sure what your angle is. I’ll tell you mine though. Current format sucks at development and I posted all the resources you need in this thread. I know the old hornets convo always brings out the old heads who may have not liked them. Tale as old as time on this board. You can’t deny their results. Undoubtedly they had bullshit going on within, every program does. There’s a lot of goofy shit that happens everywhere. The program I’m alluding to is far beyond general hockey ‘bullshit’, unfortunately.

Junior hockey, scholarships, pro hockey , everything in between. That was over a decade ago now, and that pace of progress hasn’t been seen since.

I think a lot of us care about that group exploiting and taking advantage of local families. So we can run it back as often as we need to to inform the uneducated. Informing with data straight from their website. Pittsburgh had a good thing with the hornets. We would like that format back. That format is responsible for all the posters on the wall of hometown stories at the rink. Or the posters that current staff would like you to believe was their doing. Smoke and mirrors for the mite parents. What better description of that place than smoke and mirrors. It’s wild how when the hornets were the program__Locals were getting opportunity after opportunity in masses. They get taken over an d all the sudden there’s way less local kids making the jump. Why were the hornets absurdly successful with kids moving on? Then that pace just…. stopped…. when they were taken over? What happened?

And over and over and over. ‘but but I’m just a guy who had a kid there… I don’t care about them but you better realize that there are so many recruitment years and you’re just jealous and there are kids I know in juniors who have commitments and I know for a fact that the list on the pens website is not accurate because there are more kids who aren’t on there. I only pop up here when the they are the topic and I want to explain my masturbatory excellent experience with them. I don’t work for the them’. Got it BUD

…

Any hot squirt moms on the menu lately?

Just quoting so those who are just joining can see the current topic (=

Shut up.

Edit: Out of the 17 more than a few were goalies too. Or the Mooney’s and Cooleys. BTW You should be paying that family royalties for what they did for you hacks. We all know the pedigree and who developed those kids. Wasn’t you chumps. Sweat off the brow of the men in that family. If anyone involved had half the intuition they would be asking someone in that family to run the program all together. Everyone in Pittsburgh with a kid that plays hockey would be salivating at the chance to get their kid there. Then you have to balls to list Ty Voit on your player advancement lol Also one of the 17. Didn’t his Dad tell you to go fuck yourselves? Wasn’t he the pioneer of the exodus of Pittsburgh kids from the program. The original badass. Dude needs a statue.

Didn’t somebody just make a thread with a link about how the mid am district is severely behind in player advancement or something? I wonder who the big cheese program is in the mid am District.

The data is all there on the their player advancement page. What the data largely implies is that they take credit for a lot of kids who spent one or so years in the program. Quite a few who joined at 18u for one season. I counted roughly 17 kids that spent significant time with the program and ended up with D1 commitments. Some of those players didn’t even play squirts or peewees there, I’m just giving them credit because the player was there from say 13 to 16. You can counter with available recruiting years all you want. You people recruit everyone with a cell phone and you still only managed to have 44 kids get a D1 commitment in your 11 year existence. You know what I know that whoever is creating your advancement page is grasping at every straw possible and even with all the smoke and mirrors the results are still terrible.

The rankings are fool proof most of the time. This isn’t exclusive to them and it’s one of those things most organizations strive for. They play in leagues that, unless they are getting blown out 8-0 every game, the competition alone will keep them ‘top 15’ by proxy of playing those teams. They also have good players there. Whether they are locals or outside kids, they can play. The better question is this ___ for a program with the resources they have. The facilities. The self described ‘best coaches in the country’. The rink. The academy that gives you a leg up on the competition. Why are they going to Sweden to recruit? Why are they bringing in so many Canadian players? Someone else asked how I know it won’t last much longer. The answer to that and the last paragraph is that the word is out. The hockey community is aware of and largely wants nothing to do with them. They’ve been recruiting in western states the last few years, and word is getting around out there now too. A California kid on either 06 or 07 just up and left in early January. Do you think they’re trying to recruit European players to become a dominant program? Shattuck, BK, Mount, if these teams went to Europe it would be understandable___ they attract the high end kids in the first place. They can’t even get good kids from Ohio to come play. They will always have malcontent rich parents to keep the dollars coming in, but those teams being competitive are a different story. It’s a giant grift. It’s below average. The amount of resources they bring in should have them competing with likes of of the very best programs in the country in both the rankings and player recruiting. I don’t mean being ranked number 14 and thinking it’s good enough. Most importantly with all the resources they require from families, they should be producing a return on investment that’s a fuck ton better than 17 kids getting D1 commitments over 11 years. The proof is all available on their site. The rosters for the last 5-6 years are available. Anybody can see the turnover on the teams at the older ages. They have a player advancement page, anyone can take the time to look at the elite prospects of the players and see how much time they spent with them. There’s a ‘real story’ and there’s the story the people in charge there would like you to believe so everyone keeps mindlessly spending money there. I don’t need to argue it, the info and results are readily available. Take your squirts and peewees elsewhere and then the grift in Cranberry ends.

Big shout out to the Shaha coaches and the other guys around town who are doing it the honest way. Local hockey in Pittsburgh has been dealt a real shitty hand. So many good qualified people around who wouldn’t be exploiting local families. The name of the game is to keep locals there until bantam major. It is hard to bring in billet and out of town kids up until bantam major. So locals are essential to funding the program until then. Then it turns into a circus. Look at the older age rosters and see how many Pittsburgh kids are on them. Look at the amount turnover year over year. It’s all available information. The crazy part is, outside kids come here, and often leave after a year because they don’t like it or there parents see the glaring reasons why they have so little success at moving kids on to higher levels of hockey. The current format there is a failure for the players in terms of development and general happiness. Their results suck. At this point you just have to assume that the current leadership there has a free pass to do as they please. The results for their program are piss poor, and unfortunately they have a line out the door of mite parents who don’t know any better. Their demise is clear to anyone who’s been paying attention. They’re in critical condition at the older birthyears. They’re too arrogant to realize that people are second guessing the value of their program, and hearing the stories of how they treat people. I imagine this will all blow up in their faces sooner rather than later. Heard most of the kids on the midget teams are leaving again this year, after all the kids the left last year. So they will attempt to bring in a new batch unassuming families. Rinse repeat. Not for too much longer though.

The Vengeance recruit local players. There is a big difference in trying to get the Stud 13 year old from Esmark… and having your coaching staff fly to Sweden for two weeks to recruit. I know some of the Vengeance people to an extent, there is ZERO chance they recruit outside players if all the good local players are showing up there. That program is ready and willing to focus on local players.

These other programs don’t have much to work with in terms of having a lot of players. If you can get some of these younger parents to see what’s behind the scenes___ they end up putting two and two together and all of the sudden the Vengeance or whoever else has kids that form superior teams. Pittsburgh Vengeance would be a top 10 program squirts through peewee __ if people said to hell with the Cranberry circus. No offense but no shit that the other programs aren’t running the table in squirts and peewees. The kids are mainly all up in Cranberry. Most will be back around eventually when they are 14 and jaded. Some teams may have had to allocate resources because they are being starved out of players. However, which is why I bring the Vengeance up___ they have a shit load of Uber qualified individuals. I’m sure if a shit load of Uber qualified players showed up, they are going to put their best foot forward for every birthyear that does. Im not talking 2006’s and 07’s. Those people are way past the point of making any difference. It’s about getting through to the younger crowd. There’s a whole lot that the prospective squirt parent isn’t aware of.

One last educational piece for now. All of what I am saying is based in fact and can be verified with simple google searches or by visiting the their website. I have not had experience with this in a while so I can only go off of what I hear from some friends with younger kids and siblings at the program. Let’s talk about the Brick. Team PA’s record at the brick is easily accessed. It’s not good. The 06 team was about as loaded as it gets with one current NTDP player, a future NTDP player, and a lot of stud players if we are being honest. They did not do anything there. Most say it was a cool experience but they would never do it again. You stay in a mall in Edmonton for a week and a half where the biggest thrill for Team PA players usually ends up being the mall itself. It also costs a lot of money to do it, the trip, the travel and such. The reason I bring this up and I’ve been told the brick is now being used as leverage to try to reel players into staying at the program. and also to entice players to come to Cranberry. I can’t verify it at all. I’ve just heard this. The only people who can verify it are the ones who sit in these meetings and get a sense that that’s what’s being insinuated to them. I understand parents desires to take part in things like the brick. What gets lost is that, especially for teams like team PA, nobody cares next year who was on the brick team. It comes and goes like everything else so don’t place that above your child’s every day development. Especially if most of the good kids are playing at Harmarville or anywhere else___ then your brothers in arms with not doing the brick anyway. I was told they have pre brick teams now. So all these strawmans have the potential to be used as bargaining chips for your child’s choice in hockey programs. I’ll say it one more tome__ the record for team PA speaks for itself and there is no spring or summer hockey venture that will ever have a long term positive or negative effect on your child’s future. No USHL scout, no D1 , heck no club hockey coach gives the slightest shit if your kid played in the brick tournament. Lastly, you will see over the years that some of kids that do the brick, end up falling off from where they were as a 9 year old. Some stay great. But doing the brick meant nothing long term for either of those players. You will see all the bravado with the brick, or Cranberry in general and find the astonishing lack of substance behind both. You will hear any and everything to get your kid playing there. Do the research. Listen to people who care enough to try to help you see through the smoke and mirrors that younger hockey parents are susceptible to. Or you will be on here writing tell all after tell all in 5 years as well.

The key is to stop enabling them. Talking to you elite mite parents. Get the crew together, forget the pressure from the coaches, peer pressure from parent sycophants. A few consecutive years of 9 year old hockey parents taking the ‘good kids’ anywhere but Cranberry will force Cranberry to align with their original purpose they were ‘founded on’. Helping local hockey players succeed and such. They’re going to tell you everything they have to to get you to sign up because they need your money until bantam major. So just smile and nod in those one on one meetings___ so they don’t ostracize you. Don’t let them know your intent. Then when tryouts come, just tell them you don’t have them money for it. Better yet, don’t say anything. Just make sure you are coordinating with the other good kids parents behind the scenes. You might lose one or two of the studs whose mom and dad are horny for the logo. They belong to the streets though, you don’t have to. The parents hold all the power___If they can manage not to fall for the manipulation as to why their kid needs to play there. The parents decide who the ‘best program’ is by way of deciding which program gets the bulk of good kids. If you look at the acumen of the Vegeance Staff compared to that of their employees__ anyone with an eye on getting their kid in good hands long term would be choosing Vengeance. Not even a debate there. I have no affiliation with Vengeance. I am just keenly aware of the landscape.

On the other hand, The Pittsburgh Vengeance have a completely viable program with names like Jon Zeiler, Nate Guinen, Gene Spadaro, Dave Dorsey, Marc Voit and others involved. You will have to forfeit the jerseys, and the shiny rink. That’s it. With those forfeiters you will receive proper development for your child from great coaches. And a hell of a lot better odds than 1.5 college commitment average. Coach’s who aren’t holding camps in Sweden to recruit players to come replace your kid. https://pphockey.com

It also isn’t reflective of the talent pool in Pittsburgh or ‘kids who won’t work hard’ as one their coach’s mentioned here prior. It’s a direct reflection of how inefficient they are at developing athletes for the next level. So when someone asks if anyone cares___ we should. People need to speak up. The pro team is either complicit in or ignorant of how poorly that program operates.

They can claim a significant hand in roughly 17 kids getting D1 commitments between 2012 and 2023. ‘Significant hand’ meaning the kid played there for more than 2 years. They have a player advancement page that is beefed up beyond belief with hornets players, kids who spent a year or two at PPE, and kids who flat out left the program and spent teenage years elsewhere. The majority of D1 commitments from the Penguins Elite___ per their own website___ are not kids who played squirt and peewee hockey there nor are they players who spent significant time in the program. This can all be verified by viewing these players Elite prospects pages. 2012-2023, 11 years, 17 kids. 1.5 player commitment a season average. Compared to the amount of time and money required to partake in that program__ that’s a joke.

To the uneducated parent, please disregard statements such as ‘if you’re looking for an advisor your player is a lower NAHL player’. There are no absolutes that your player must be represented by an agent at 14 or even 16 and moving on to play junior hockey at 16 1/2. Kids blossom at different times. Kids get noticed at different times. Kids get noticed by agents or advisors at different times. Your 15 year old not having an agent doesn’t mean he’s a lower NAHL player. As if there’s anything wrong with that anyway. There are a number of advisors out there who will happily take your money. Just like there are a number of paid subscription websites out there who will drool over your kid if you subscribe. The problem is not the advisors or the faux scouting sites, it’s the elephant in the room that hockey is a rich kids sport. There’s a lot of obnoxious parents out there who view their child’s come up like they view everything else in life, as in they can purchase it. So they hire an advisor for 5k to ‘promote their kid’ or sign up for X site and all of the sudden their kid is ‘top 10 left winger in the country at the 08 by’ (According to the site they just signed up for @ $90 a month). There’s so many shithead parents in this sport driving this kind of thing that people would be stupid not to take advantage of it. Right now, more parents are reading what I just said and going to sign up on one of these sites (that no scouts pay attention to) rather than encouraging their kid to make sacrifices and become a player who, advisor or not, is going to play this sport long term. With that said, it’s good to ‘eventually’ find someone who’s reputable, that will help you navigate the landscape, especially when getting into the junior hockey world. Whether you pay that person, or they are free.