Icebucket

1 hour ago, Corsi said:

Yes, they probably will be behind the programs that I mentioned (except maybe Niagara) but as was pointed out by other members, D1 hockey is the one sport that is not as divided into "have's and have not's".  The Michigan's, Minnesota's, BU's, and Denver's are going to be the programs that recruit the 18 year old's that get drafted in June, but because of the role of junior hockey, teams like Quinnipiac, Union, and Providence can compete and win by bringing in players that are 20-21 years old and compete at a championship level.  RMU could and can compete with those teams, and having better facilities would help with attracting better players.

I most certainly agree hockey isn't quite he same as football or basketball where smaller schools mostly don't have a chance.

However, the three programs you listed with recent success were all led by top notch coaches. Not sure RMU is capable as they are currently constructed

3 hours ago, Corsi said:

Being on campus is a huge recruiting tool for the teams, as well as having a "state of the art facility".  If you go to PSU, ND, Denver, even Niagara University their facilities and RMU's are not even in the same class.  RMU is dramatically behind when it comes to where they are playing.  

As far as what will happen to the the current complex when the on-campus facility opens...  Even if the Island Complex is currently profitable, I would wonder if the cost to staff and maintain two separate facilities would force a sale to Black Bear (or another group).

RMU will still be dramatically behind those programs, regardless of being on or off campus. Will it help, sure. But putting a facility on campus isn't going to turn moon township into grand forks when it comes to hockey 

3 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

If I am not mistaken, one of the things that RMU doesn't like about the Island facility is that it is off campus, and therefore not as easy for resident students to attend games at. This was one of the stated advantages that the on campus basketball arena had over the hockey arena. So I assume they hope they'll get more spectators at an on campus arena.

While I don't at all buy into the theory of an on campus arena making the team better and therefore drawing tons of outside fans, I can't certainly see the benefit of having easier access to get more students in the seats.

It's my understanding that RMU isn't packing the barn. I haven't been to a game this year but I've heard this from multiple people so I'm assuming it's the case.

Is the "seating capacity is holding us back" just something they thought sounded good to help get the grant?

3 hours ago, stickboy said:

PIHL uses a 1:50 time slot for varsity. What does PAHL use for midget?  If it’s less then be prepared to pay for the OT/SO. 

For the amount families pay for hockey, I'd think the overwhelming majority would gladly pay a little more to have games not end in a tie or be cut short by curfew.

4 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

To see the dumbest rule in all of youth hockey ( and there are a lot of them ) in the fair play point system potentially going away would be a good thing.  Then they can take another look at ties as there is no OT or shootout which is a joke.

16 and 18 AA standings are littered with ties.  Multiple teams at each level tied over 25% of their games.

I think the only time it becomes a problem is when a poor official makes a bad call and realizes it. Instead of acknowledging that they made a mistake, just like coaches and players do all the time, they take the "I'm the authority here and I will call the game the way I'd like" approach. Just man up, say my bad, and everyone can move on.

I see no reason for an official to have to explain every call. But when a very questionable call is made at least inform the coach on how you saw it. Or even better, when a player asks what he can do next time to avoid the call, actually give him the guidance he is looking for instead of giving him an additional 10

4 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Some referees are great. They make fair calls, they communicate to players why they got a penalty or are about to get one, and they're great for the game.

Some referees are terrible and are excused because "people are mean" and nobody wants to do it. Ever work any job? Yeah, people can be a pain in the ass. Deal with it. Have I heard people yelling about calls? You bet. Have I heard people calling the refs names/swearing at them? Not really. Over over 8 years of many, many games I could count those times on one hand. And every one of them was thrown out. Except the time or two when they threw the wrong person out.

Maybe they should be paid more. I'm willing to share in the cost of that, if it means having competent refereeing. 

Most refs are over paid already. The good refs earn their pay, but when thinking about the horrible ones it's almost aggravating how much they make. If they were to do that poorly at any other job they'd get fired or be stuck working for minimum wage. Last I checked the hourly rate for refs was well about that mark.

9 hours ago, TheRightCall said:

Well said. This falls in the hands of USA Hockey and MidAm, two organizations that are run by incompetent people and good old boys. The incident report portal is archaic and very difficult to navigate, which is why many officials avoid calling penalties that require a report. Often, player and/or coach names cannot be located or a team is not properly listed. Right or wrong, this is a fact.

I know some officials who take pride in what they do--few, but there are some. These are the people who when seen hitting the ice, the coaches, players, and parents breathe a sigh of relief. Then, there those who when seen hitting the ice, the coaches, players, and parents say, "Oh no--not this clown."

Spot on. It's not really the refs fault that no one keeps tabs on them. And there are a few very good refs in the area but not nearly enough.

Considering most youth hockey is using a two man system, it always makes for interesting games when you have a very good ref paired with a bad one.

While it certainly isn't right to call the guy out while hiding behind a screen name here, I do agree with the fact that there is nothing to hold the refs accountable. The refs have no real reason to work to get better at their jobs. They are going to keep getting games whether they are good or not.

most refs in this area are not great, but keep in mind that both teams are playing with below average refs so over the long run it should even out.

I would have loved to see SCIR stand up to Alpha, but in the end they can't risk hurting the kids in the event they lost the fight.

What percentage of Alpha ice does SCIR purchase?  I'd have to think it's enough to have given them a case to stand their ground.

37 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

The non profit will be a write-off for the good Dr. for all of his "donations" to the Vengeance AAA teams.

The positives are 1. You will get a coach/GM that can out drink any of the parents and just got off of his 2nd DUI. He will coach your kids while on house arrest and wearing his ankle monitor.

2. You get professional EX athletes as coaches that will teach the dads how to cheat on their wives when they go out of town.

3. You get the flashy locker rooms with the fake walls that you have to walk 1/8th of a mile and through another building to get to the rink.

4. You have the "state of the art gym" that only 6 kids at a time can use but that's okay because they have a shooting area smaller than the one in your basement and 1/20th of a basketball court.

You also get the front "lounge area" with the high top bar tables.

Can't forget the video room that doesn't hold the whole team so kids sit on the floor.

But you do get some cool swag and jerseys.

 

Crazy thing is, while this seems like it might just be a ridiculous bitter post.  It's spot on.

9 minutes ago, LGP13 said:

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

It's the same move Alpha has pulled many times.

Rebrand as vengeance or you can't get ice

Use our officials or you can't get ice

Buy our team supplies or you can't get ice

None of these have any benefit to the kids. Only to Alphas pockets

2 hours ago, spilledbeans said:

Yes there is someone else willing to take over. 

Assuming the person who would take over isn't a minor.  Why don't you share some info?

1 hour ago, Law said:

I have a friend who has a kid playing on that team. I can't speak for others, but his kid hasn't got paid. So there's that.

I said it from the day the team was announced. They will collect sponsor money, then at some point in the season the team will fold and the owner will walk with a pocket full of cash 

I don't understand why those top 09s wouldn't just look to make a good U16 AA team?  I believe most of the consistently AA teams are taking the top players whether they are major or minor year by U16.  For the individual players, there isn't really any benefit to sticking to a true U15 team if you are good enough to make a split U16AA team.

15 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Throw in visiting teams playing at Armstrong’s barn and getting homered by the refs goes into their ranking.  The stupid fair play point is in jeopardy for any visiting team before kids lace up the skates.  It is an absolute joke.  Too bad ballless PAHL stopped posting game stats to indicate penalty minutes for both teams.  Seems anabolic hockey parents were up in arms their kid didn’t get credited for an apple in recent games and PAHL caved.

Usually the penalty minute ratio at Belmont is 3/1 in favor of the visiting team.

I think this is also going to cause issues in terms of playoff seeding/who makes the playoffs. Teams wrap up their season this weekend and have no idea where they actually stand because FPP are not accurate with incomplete box scores.

7 hours ago, ice is cold said:

From what I have heard, their board runs the team, vs coaches.... which may be their challenge.  

They just hired a new coach this year. Safe to assume they just placed someone there who will let the board run things? Sure doesn't seem to be working 😂

For the people who are confused about why CV isn't at he top of single A.

It would be like saying QV should be at the top of AA, or that SF should be ranked as the top AAA team because they have a better record than the top team in the division above them.

That blue division was built to be a level completely under the A gold division. No idea why they did it that way, but can't do anything about it now.

6 hours ago, Rewster said:

I’m not surprised that you include 7 schools in 3A. Seneca Valley is separating themselves a bit from the pack. You could almost do a 6-way tie for 2nd place.

It’s too bad Canon Mac doesn’t have a competitive squad this year. Did anyone see that Big Macs vs Peters Twp game this week? I thought that the benches were going to jump on the ice. It’s great that the rivalry games get amped up. 

I think Canon Mac will likely get dropped to AA next year. It's been a train wreck this season, and I'm pretty sure they were well under .500 the last few seasons also.

The issue now will be that teams won't be able to track how their competition is doing with fair play points. The FPP system is awful, but it will have a major impact in the AA divisions.

3 minutes ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

west will probably sweep states this season 

 

I think AAA will be an uphill climb for the west, and single A will likely be a landslide win for the east as usual. I'd like to see the west win, but especially at A it's just not an even matchup in terms of school size.

On 1/20/2024 at 7:00 AM, Pa Hockey said:

Meadville had great coach Jamie Plunkett, captive audience with no kool aid, many great players Smart Westfall Phillis, Schedule including the best from Ohio, NY New Jersey Pa and Elsewhere, Oh what High School Hockey could be ? Minnesota has the model and no 18 U AA or A would be needed ? 

Those Minnesota HS teams are picking from hundreds of players. You couldn't have that same model here. There just aren't enough players at each school for HS hockey to be a high level here.

1 hour ago, Pa Hockey said:

There will be crossover in Round 1 of the playoffs and the upper division will rule. 1st and 2nd place schools get byes and seeded in final 8 same as a year ago 

This really make you wonder why they would split the division into an upper and a lower. Teams in the bottom half of the upper division really get shafted 

12 hours ago, Rewster said:

You had me up until the “spreadsheet and a couple of hours time” part. 

I guess that I can understand the fear of independent teams poaching players; but only up to a certain age point and they definitely should be publicizing the U18 level…especially the AA. The majority of the U18 AA players are in their last year anyways. There’s nobody to retain.

It’s got to be only hurting whatever chance of advancement that the 18UAA kids might have. I mean, there’s at least a few really good PAHL AA teams that are nationally ranked high. Armstrong Arrows are currently ranked #5 in the Nation for Tier 2 and are beating legitimate AAA teams. The Pittsburgh Predators AA team is ranked higher that their AAA team and it’s not even that close. The Steel City Ice Renegades won the Tier 2 National Championship a couple of years ago (although I think that was 16UAA).
 

I’d think that the PAHL would want to show that they are developing players that get promoted past their AA level (even if’s a lower level Junior league); not the other way around. IMO, it would help keep the independent (dare I say faux) AAA teams away from poaching players if the PAHL can show that their best teams in the highest divisions are getting national recognition and visibility of their players from higher levels.

I mean, the PAHL has a U18 AA team in their league that is superior to the same organization’s “other” Independent U18 AAA. What more evidence do they need?

PAHL 18U AA is very good this year. Typically by 18s it's a 2-3 team race and they crush everyone else they play. This year there are 5 strong teams that all play very competitive games. Teams 2 through 5 are separated by only 18 spots in MHR. For comparison last year 2 to 5 was 53 team apart