Flavio

I did not know it was never in service. Want to be clear my argument isn’t against the Rebellion. From what I understand it’s a fine group of people do a real good job with the kids. If they need more ice, I certainly hope blackbear sees that and help them out. My argument is only against blackbear putting all the time and effort into creating something that rivals the other tier 1 programs in a location that makes it very easy for half the region to still opt for those other programs due to the lack of major highways getting there. Every program like this operates north of the city because it is easier to drive north than it is to drive south. That common knowledge, of anyone who’s live in Pittsburgh longer than 6 months, has touched a nerve. I understand how rough South Hills residents have it, I’ve lived there for a considerable amount of time. I feel for them. There so many variables to driving times that are being quoted here. Like time of day, and the fact that a majority will hit stop and go traffic heading to printscape during peak hours. Where again, the north has so many major arteries spreading traffic out. I’ve been accused of residing in the east, like it’s some kind of insult (lol), I don’t but let’s say I do, and I have a kid who’s a stud…. I’m not driving to Southepointe I’m getting on the turnpike to Cranberry, Harmarville or going to New Ken. It’s impossible for anyone North East, East, or South East to get to printscape without buying an RV. No beef with the rebellion. And I apologize if it came off that way, and for my lack of knowledge on the rinks history. - Coach Flavi

I laid the facts out there and then it got personal and I’m all of the sudden trolling. Outside of the logistics that no one can dispute- which alienate everyone east of the city… the dream destination here is a rink that’s currently converted one of their two rinks to a soccer field. Call it trolling. Get mad. Cry together. Whatever you want to do. What you won’t be doing is participating in a tier 1 program at printscape. Whether that’s a new venture or Esmark splitting ice there. It’s not happening. And that’s the BOTTOM LINE. - Flavi

My kid drives himself to practice, from our home near Wexford lol But alright… I live in Greensburg with a kid who plays for Esmark. I’m highly offended lol Hey aaaaaaaaahockey or whatever that goofball name is… the mic drop was when I said that printscape has to let one of their rinks serve as a soccer field to stay in business. Forget directions and your personal woes around them… There’s no retort for that. Do you know how stupid it sounds to advocate for a tier 1 program to be placed in a rink that’s only keeping the doors open by converting 1 of their two rinks in to a turf field? Printscape rink and pitch. And again, good for them for providing space for lacrosse and soccer but there’s no hiding from the fact that that extra rink wasn’t good for business… I wonder why it wasn’t good for business? You want to put a tier 1 alternative to the programs that make you all hot and bothered- in a rink that had to downsize due to lack of local participation? Printscape rink & field isn’t convenient for anyone from the north east, east, or south east (including the eastern parts of the south hills). As I said, dont take Flavi’s word for it. I just point to the programs already in existence that all choose to operate north of the city. No retort for that either pal!!! - Flavio aka Flavi (pronounced Flah vee)

Thanks for keeping tabs on me. Yikes.

UPMC - fed by 79 and Turnpike PIA - fed by 28 and Turnpike- one mile drive from turnpike exit to 28. Also golden mile highway, by way of 22 and 376. Exit 376, one mile drive on route 22 to golden mile highway exit. Harmar - fed by 28 and turnpike Printscape - fed by 79S which is well to the west of the region and only easily accessed by those who live near it.

Well, I don’t work for Penn Dot. Let’s just say logistics. As in, how long will it take to get truck from A to b. So I can tell you all about how bad of a location Printscape is for people north east, east, or south east of the city (=

Right because I’m looking at the reality of the situation from Blackbears point of view. Not on here soiling my panties over what’s best for me. Like someone from BB is taking notes and message board conjecture into consideration for a multi-million dollar decision. It’s technically Printscape rink & fieldhouse.

It’s actually nice that Southpointe offers the field. I’m sure it’s welcome for the sports that use it. Southpointe also clearly fills a need, albeit small one, for hockey. They are in no way shape or form primed to be the next Tier 1 location. NEXT! - Flavio

I thought you south hills people were all hip. Don’t start assuming genders because it’s convenient. RJUSHL, maybe the kids can play soccer or ultimate frisby along with hockey? I know just the place…

Some of you have latched on to this narrative that I’m pro PIA. I’m not, I’m just anti-Southpointe. It’s too far south west of the city and region as a whole. The only people that rink makes a real difference for is Peters Twn, Upper st Clair and canonsburg area. If you want to have another Pittsburgh predators or Shaha there, by all means. If we are talking a program on par with the ppe, it’s not possible. How many times do I have to say it…… there is a reason why all of these programs chose to operate north of the city….. driving north is easier due to multiple major arteries that spread traffic out. You don’t have to take Flavios word for it that nobody wants to set up shop down there. Look at what the current set up is? They’re all north? Why is that? I don’t see Alpha or PIA with a soccer field???? You all talk about PIA like it’s limping into business every morning…. Last I checked, there are two 200x85 sheets of ice available there. Not a girls middle school soccer team in sight. Just the truth, the people occupying northern rinks aren’t at risk of having their rinks turn into a flag football field or a gym.

I live in Mccandless. I’ve lived in the South Hills as well. I don’t have any skin in the game with PIA or Southpointe. As if any of that matters anyway. My job actually entails a lot of study around traffic flow and wait times etc. Flavio is done with this argument. Initially I was just trying to reason with some of the sentiment here. Now I see that this is an emotional issue, and no one can really see it clearly. As I said, draw a line down the center of the city- no one to the east of that is making it to Printscape in time for a skate. Unless that skate starts at 7:30-8pm. People to the east of the line are trekking through the south hills at peak hours or they are sitting in traffic through the city just to get to 79. But honestly, the building has one of two rinks converted to a soccer field. Enough said. Probably more realistic things to talk about here.

You listed a bunch of south hills places too. There’s not enough kids there to create a rival team for the ppe or Esmark. Coming from further out at peak times is a nightmare. Driving through the south hills at times when people are on the road the most- which you didn’t list, is a nightmare. Pure delusion. And since when is route 19 a major artery. You people who want a team in printscape so bad should go be patrons there more often so they have the funds and a solid reason to not have one of their rinks set up as a soccer field. Until then, write to your local politicians or go scream at Dave Kosick or Mario. Don’t waste Flavios time.

Do those same treks at times when there’s traffic - or when people are on the roads. Not 7:30 at night. Anyway, like I said- feel free to continue your schilling unimpeded. I know there will never be a Tier 1 program in Southepointe lol It’s a bunch of South Hills people that are sour about not having their way. Not how the real world works.

How are people east of the city, even in the east part of the south hills… getting to Southpointe. Your approach here is so weird. People who work in those office parks generally move there. The comparisons with work and youth sports are two completely different things. One much more important than the other. It’s not grounds for an argument. People move and make major commutes to accommodate their jobs, they generally aren’t moving to accommodate a youth hockey program unless they have to. I’ll let you get back to schilling for a south hills program here like someone from blackbear is going to read your perturbed horse shit and think it’s a good idea lol

It’s all good. We can revisit it when there’s never a program like that in Southepointe lol

According to others here. There’s many families in the south hills who won’t even think of driving anywhere but ice castle or Bethel. The kids are good enough to make the legit AAA squads.. Driving somewhere to support your family financially is hardly comparable to driving somewhere for a youth sport. Driving out to State College 4 days a season is also not comparable. I do agree that people go above and beyond for the kids. I don’t think the overall picture is being looked at. A tier 1 program based in Southpointe easily becomes third or 4th place amongst Tier 1 programs. It is simply logistics, why are all the programs in the north somehwere in the first place? Because people with business backgrounds looked at the layout of the land and decided that’s where they would be best suited to do business. A program in Southpointe can’t even get off its feet enough to prove they have good coaching, because people aren’t going to pass over the ease of getting to these other places compared to everyone being funneled to 79 S. And the hell it would take to get there from anyone not living within 8 miles of 79 S. Printscape was propped up by the Penguins for decades. There’s a reason why it’s down to one sheet and a soccer/lacrosse field. Nobody with a business background, a good one anyway, that’s looking to draw on a customer base from an entire region is going to put one in a spot without several major channels to get to that place. The South Hills kills any chance printscape has because it is a giant black hole of traffic spanning from Canonsburg to the Mon Valley with no HIGHWAYS. Florida and Cleveland do not rely on a kid, or a group of out of town kids to make their business break even. That’s a moot point. A team in Southepointe is not positioned to make people already going to New Ken and cranberry change their mind. That’s the point. I’m happy to revisit this topic down the line when there’s no Tier 1 program at printscape because Blackbear most likely has a person involved with enough sense to look at the map and see how tricky it becomes. A program at Southpointe lookong to operate at Tier 1 (meaning they are drawing from all over town) wouldn’t even be able to start practices until 7pm due to peoples physical ability to arrive there by 6:30. 7pm may even be pushing it.

Programs in the north have multiple traffic arteries going in their general direction. This alleviates traffic across the board. Not that you don’t hit traffic, but you aren’t being funneled from various points- all to route 79. When you go to the south hills, you essential hit a bubble of residential and back roads. The south hills is the most populated area of the tri state area. Roads like 51 are over capacity and have been for 30 years, but they can’t do anything about it because there’s no room for widening anymore. Not that 51 is an artery anyway, but it sure contributes to the mess that is created and starts when you reach that south hills bubble. Southepointe is too far south. It’s only accessible via one highway or driving through the south hills. Everything leading to 79 for most people is a mess. Yes, folks coming from cranberry would be able to drive straight down 79. However this thing about hockey players being located in the south and north is conjecture. Not reality. The high level players are few and far between. There would be no rhyme or reason to where any of these kids are located. I’ve seen them come from everywhere over the years and can confidently say it’s random. Most of the legitimate AAA teams I’ve seen have kids from everywhere.Putting a tier 1 program in Southpointe will lead to it being watered down. There are too many established options and not enough Highway to get there for a good amount of the population. All of the Cranberry kids may be willing to drive there, but the high end kid who’s looking to play with similar players will still be staying in Cranberry or driving to New Ken. This groveling going on here is from people who are looking at it from their perspective and not a business perspective. Nobody who wants to have a successful Tier 1 program is operating out of Southpointe. Nobody wants to see a valiant effort put in to add more genuine competition to the AAA mix only to have it be undermined by poor location choice. Southpointe is a nightmare for everyone who isn’t driving from Cranberry or Upper St Clair. Draw a line directly down the middle of the city and stretch it 30 miles north and south. Everyone to the right of that line (and that’s even being generous), including some in south hills, are going to hit traffic patterns that make the drive to New Ken or Cranberry seem simple.

Printscape isn’t and will never be the answer. It’s good for whatever it’s being used for now. We all have rinks that are convenient for us. That rink is convenient for people living in Canonsburg and that’s it.

That’s a bit of hyperbole. Whatever the case, most people cannot make it to every area rink in 20 minutes or less. I’ve lived 20 min from ice castle and it’s taken me 35 to get there due to 88.

Any reps from blackbear who can chime in and clear some of this up?

If I am understanding what I’m hearing correctly, this is the least of their problems.

Printscape is a big fat no from Flavio and a host of others. I hope Blackbear and Esmark put feelers out prior to every attempting something like that, for their own good. South Hills people will still be 30-40 min away because of traffic and back roads. Anyone living in the south hills knows that it’s a lost cause any way you stretch it. People living in Castle Shannon can have a hard time getting to ice castle due to the roads and traffic. The entire area is over populated and crowded.

Saying there are more “talented players” in the south hills is conjecture. We get it .. you live in the south hills and you don’t want to make the drive. Most others don’t want to drive into the south of the city, or to West Virgintscape past 4pm. People are already making the drive for Esmark. Esmark is the only program in the tri state area that is an alternative to the ppe across the board at 14u and up. Their rosters have kids from everywhere around town already. Between them and the ppe already having most of the kids, the reality is that Esmark does all this destabilizing of their program to pick up one or two players per by?

I don’t see them losing out at all. They currently draw from everywhere. Why change it up at this point? Esmark’s bantam and midget program is solid as a whole. People seek them out. Esmark doesn’t have to go anywhere part time. Most players who aren’t at the ppe , yet are looking to play Tier 1 are at Esmark already. Even Blackbear would be stupid to try to place a Tier 1 team at Printscape. That place might as well be West Virginia to 75% of the hockey community based on logistics.

They really shouldn’t announce it. Nobody wants to drive to Southpointe. Any program looking to operate out of Southpointe and draw kids from north, east and west of the city is going to fail. This whole fascination with organizations moving south of the city is delusion from people likely living south of city. Esmark doesn’t have to go anywhere if they don’t want. They have the title of being a viable organization for bantam and midget teams. People will go to them. If they are truly considering making their families drive back and forth between printscape and PIA then they don’t deserve that title.