James Gatz

It will be interesting to see if the Aviators have the ice time and/or desire to grow the Aviators or if it will stay as a smaller niche organization targeting AA players. Presently, there is no Aviators mite program. I have heard that is one of the goals moving to SSA is that they will have an ADM program with Tangradi leading it. This year (2023/2024) the Aviators have the following PAHL teams: U10 (2013)--AA U12 (2012)--A Major Black U12 (2011)--AA U14----A Major Gold U14 (2010)--A Major Black (I might have some of the 14 U teams mixed up) U14 (2010)--AA U14 (2009)--AA U16--A Major Gold

In keeping with thread title, is it true that in addition to not renewing the Aviators, Alpha has informed the Vipers that they will not get ice next year too? Not sure where that leaves the Vipers. The Vengence/Renegades will be the only option at Alpha next year.

There are plenty of parents I've spoken too who are not taken in by AAA mystique and want to find places for their kids to play an honest PAHL schedule. It is not their naivety or vicarious living preventing them from pushing back as much as it is lack of options. I don't know what they are supposed to do to push back other than to vote with their wallets, but there seem to be fewer options in the market for these parents than a few years ago.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but the explanation I heard was that Vengeance is a for profit organization that historically competed as an independent. Renegades was a non-profit which competed primarily in the PAHL. Now that the PAHL bylaws permit for profit teams to participate, Vengeance is anticipating expanding and fielding some PAHL teams. Not sure if Renegades will continue more or less as they are constituted as a lower-commitment option to feed the Vengeance. I have also heard that Aviators are moving to Shadyside and that some of the SSA coaches will have skills coaching roles with the Aviators.

I've been that moron, but looked it up after the game and learned something.

This is a USA Hockey rule. From USA Hockey website: Modified Shorthanded Icing Rule Delivers More Skill Development USA Hockey has modified its playing rules for the 14-and-Under age classification and all younger age classifications (youth and girls) to no longer legalize icing while a team is shorthanded. Beginning with the 2017-18 season, if a team ices the puck while shorthanded, it will result in a whistle followed by a defensive-zone faceoff. The team that commits an icing infraction will be allowed to change lines and/or players prior to the defensive-zone faceoff. The rationale behind this rule change is twofold. First, and most importantly, the change will encourage greater skill development for 10U, 12U and 14U players. These young athletes are in their prime skill development windows and will benefit greatly from the increased emphasis this rule change places on promoting puck possession, puck protection and play-making (as opposed to merely firing the puck down the ice, which is a low-skill tactic). Second, the change prevents a penalized team from gaining an exception to a rule (icing) that is in effect while teams are at even strength. “We want to encourage players to get their heads up, think and make skillful, intelligent plays,” said Ken Martel, the technical director of USA Hockey’s American Development Model. “To develop problem-solving skills, we need rules that encourage players to think. Modifying the shorthanded icing rule will accomplish that. Rather than just blasting the puck down the ice, they’ll now be encouraged to skate or pass their way out of trouble, use greater touch to chip a puck out, or even take advantage of a lazy power play and go on the attack.” Data collected from nearly 200 games played under this modified rule showed that the average number of shorthanded icings per game was only 1.81. Therefore, there were fewer than two stoppages per game due to this rule, which dispels the myth that it will ruin the flow of games and make them dramatically longer. USA Hockey has successfully used this modified rule for more than 10 years at its National Player Development Camps. Players adapt almost immediately and more shorthanded scoring opportunities are created by the play-making mindset that it nurtures. “Skill development and play-making is an emphasis at the professional level and it should be an absolute priority at the youth levels, so I support USA Hockey’s decision to change the rule,” said Mike Sullivan, Pittsburgh Penguins head coach and back-to-back Stanley Cup champion. “It will encourage kids to make more skill plays with the puck, and that will help develop their full potential as players.” At least at the younger ages, it has been hit or miss if the scoreboard operator relays shot attempts on the scoreboard. With no score sheets, goalies do not have an easy way to keep up with how many shots they faced.

Same here. I am wondering if they show up. Our manager told us that because of the high error rates, they stopped having managers enter the data after the game. Now they just submit a copy of the scoresheet and PAHL enters the info. Final scores were posted more quickly this weekend but the other data has not been entered-at least not yet. I hope they go back and enter it.

Comparing Minnesota high school hockey to other states is like comparing most states to Texas high school football or Kentucky basketball. Culturally, some sports take priority in certain areas and attract depth and talent. There is a mystique to being a high school athlete in those sports and those places. It also doesn't hurt that in the land of 10,000 lakes and really cold winters, kids can skate for free from a young age for much of the year.

Let's take a step back and have an overview of the playing options for someone in Mites (8U) and Squirts (10U). Broadly speaking, there are three options. The first are in-house programs. These are programs with larger groups of kids who play on teams in a house league. All of their practices and games will be in the same facility. The mite program at Lemieux is an example. In the North, RMU and Baierl (North Pittsburgh) have house programs for both Mites and Squirts. Next is playing on a PAHL team. Some would call this travel hockey, but think of it more as travel lite because the league, the PAHL (Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey League) is comprised of mostly local teams. The furthest teams are Morgantown to the South, Erie to the North, Youngstown to the West, and State College to the East. You likely would not have a team from all four outposts in a division. The majority of your travel is within the Pittsburgh metro area. Finally, there are the teams that play an independent schedule. They have the most travel and tend to be the higher end/more competitive teams though that is open to debate. Not trying to start one here. The amount of practices each week, amount of additional off-ice training, and commitment expectations (and costs) go up from House to Independents. There are some House options for the Squirts, but beyond 10U, you will be looking at a PAHL or independent scenario most likely, though at those ages, school options start to enter the picture. Once you decide the category in which you want to play, you can start evaluating the different programs within each category. For example, you will see some programs, like the Yetis, play their Mites in PAHL. Most of North Pittsburgh Mites play in-house. Both are good experiences. As others have said, for Mites and Squirts, don't discount rink proximity. Driving another 45 minutes each way past a convenient rink may not add any value to your experience. One consistent thing I see with the top end mite players is the amount of supplemental skating they do. You can tell the kids that practice 2 times a week from those that do some other skating training in addition to their team practices. There are a host of supplemental training options out there.

This is a good discussion with some interesting points. From my novice perspective, I am wondering if it makes sense for PAHL to activate the stats tracking tools for the U18 and U16 levels for sure and maybe even U14, or at least the AA levels for some of the age groups below U16. I do see some validity to ignoring the stats for the lower ages/lower divisions. The scorekeeper is usually a parent volunteer from the home team. Many are not familiar with scorekeeping and there is often a rush to complete the score sheet as soon as the horn sounds. I get why the stats are enigmatic in those situations, and it probably is too much distraction for an A minor squirt to focus on individual stats, especially when they are inconsistently recorded. Does a hybrid tweak make sense? Keep/report the stats for the upper tier teams where there is probably more knowledgeable/experienced people serving as score keepers, but keep the stats muted for the more development oriented divisions?

That may fend off lazy independent teams, but a spreadsheet and a couple hours time and you could track any goalie fairly easily. PAHL gives their minutes, shots/saves in the score sheet synopsis posted on their site. For skaters, they only report goals, assists and penalties

I’m too new to have a final opinion on the fair play points but seems like it amplifies problems from inconsistent officiating. Seems like at the level I am following most closely there are very few penalties called, so the FPP point is a given. Find that officiating crew that is whistle happy and you can get double punished for the penalty. Take a misconduct, and the point is basically gone.

Thanks for the info. Good to hear they audit it all eventually.

How are the scoresheets entered for PAHL tracking? I've noticed several examples of teams having more fair play points than they have had games played. It may be some user error on the upload, but when do these types of mistakes ever get corrected?