Lifelongbender

10 minutes ago, Saucey said:

You know, the couple of you pretending that you don't understand this....you do. The poster who said 'don't be an a$#hole' summed it up. If there was no apparent outcry about it, I am guessing that the foot was taken off the gas at some point. 

I guess I assumed that aaaahockey was joking when he wrote that.

13 hours ago, carroll81 said:

From the East:

- 10 goal rule in ICSHL.  If the goal differential is 10 at any point after the end of the 2nd period, game ends

- Atlantic district procedure for unruly fans is a warning to both benches.  Teams have to send AC to monitor parents.  If unruly actions persist, entire stands are cleared by rink personnel.

Honestly these both seem like commonsense provisions in the rules.

On the other hand, in a sane world there'd be no need for a rule about running up the score to that extent. Everyone knows and remembers who the classless coaches and programs are. The rest of us try to impart sportsmanship and respect into our players, and lead by example.

17 hours ago, PuckHead7 said:

This isn’t even a complete list.  Major Incidents?  What about verified SafeSport issues?  Obviously, they aren’t included.  I wonder if the PAHL puts a list together.  Bet that it’s huge.

I'd love to see the equivalent PAHL list.

That report is fascinating. It's incredible to me that there were so many issues with parents confronting officials directly, including, of all things, entering the referee locker room. What kind of idiotic behavior is that?

Honestly, it's amazing to me that we can even find officials to schedule, given the way they are constantly berated. It's been my experience that, in the vast majority of situations where parents complain about calls either made or not made, I agreed with the officials.

I'm not sure what to make of that. It sure seems from the player's reaction that she felt that she was pushed.

From the front page of their organization's website (https://www.claringtonflames.ca/?

Quote

SPECIAL NOTICE

We are aware of the situation that occurred with one of Clarington Girls Hockey Association (CGHA) volunteers at a recent tournament in Pittsburgh.

The Ontario Women's Hockey Association and Hockey Canada are currently investigating the situation. The CGHA organization will support and provide full cooperation with all governing entities to ensure a thorough and transparent process.

The CGHA will continue to foster a positive and fun hockey experience for all of our members which supports growth and development to help our players achieve their personal goals.  As always, the CGHA ensures that all health and safety requirements are met or exceeded in the best interest of our members at all times.

We have no further comment at this time.

CGHA President

9 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

The dad made a mistake and didn't do anythig once he was on the ice.  He obviously came to his senses pretty quickly.  Maybe he was going to get his kid and pull him off the ice.  Maybe he was/is a parent who initially had good thoughts.  Who knows but he should not have been out there.  Moon Hockey should address this if he was from Moon.  Plum should address it if he was Plum.  The rink should stay out of it.

That was an idiotic move by the dad, and the rink certainly has every right to take action, but likely the only action taken will be by the organization. The organization certainly should take action. Spectators entering the ice is both dangerous and explicitly prohibited by PIHL rules. Honestly what I worry about the most from that sort of behavior is escalation of the situation, such as other parents responding to it.

For me, the behavior of the parents who stayed in the stands was largely idiotic, too. Hard to see how they thought that yelling at opposing players leaving the ice was appropriate. As miked pointed out earlier in this thread, all of those parents are clearly audible on Livebarn, in their own voices, and you can see many of their faces. Shameful and stupid behavior is being recorded nowadays, folks. Almost all of the rinks have Livebarn. I'd keep that in mind.

What a disgusting spectacle. The behavior of the players was outrageous, but the behavior of the parents for both teams was imbecilic.

Regarding the parent who entered the ice, if I was the coach of that team I'd ban him myself.

36 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Yeah, they used to run one on their own.  See https://www.ahabadgers.com/news_article/show/565555 .   I guess it's gone now.  Can't blame them though.  Tournament planning is a ton of work and stress, especially over major holidays.  

Truer words have never been spoken.

There are a few. Hockey Time in running one out at Delmont - I guess that's the one that Jack Handey was talking about with the Badgers, above. I heard yesterday that they are looking for teams to fill out a few brackets.

Most rinks have facility-specific rules that would apply to this question, too.

No matter what may or may not have happened on the ice, it seems pretty classless and also like a very bad idea for a parent to do such a thing. I wouldn't hesitate to confront a parent who approached my own kid, or a kid I coach, and I'd call the police if they persisted and let the police sort it out. I have to believe that there are myriad ways to get into legal trouble VERY quickly by doing such a thing.

Just an observation - parents who do this sort of thing tend to develop a reputation, and I know of at least one parent who has adversely affected a placement for their player because teams didn't think their player was worth the hassle of the parent.

2 hours ago, Stinger17 said:

The Minnesota model starts with a split season and it doesn’t look like that will happen anytime soon. I personally believe that the current model in This area is limiting the growth of the sport and development of the players. 
 

Here’s a link to the report

http://online.fliphtml5.com/nums/chna/

 

That's fascinating. Lots to think about in that report.

Or we could just be happy for a local kid who did good.

21 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

My boys go to Clif Loya (sessions at both Lebo and Baierl) and they love it.  

They've also done TK

I've found that if you want a more dynamic session, lots of movements and techniques thrown together in one drill, then go to TK.  If you want a more focused approach, then go to Clif.  

My older one did UPMC and hated it.  He also did Yuri for Interel and absolutely loved it.  It's amazing how two camps, that focus on similar things, have an impact on the player.  

Seconded on the assessment of the TK sessions. They're really good, active sessions, covering a number of skills at once.

And then there is this from Wesbanco Arena, for anyone playing in Wheeling this season:

https://www.wheelingnailers.com/en/news/nailers-wesbanco-arena-announce-preseason-venue-change

https://wtov9.com/news/local/refrigeration-broken-nailers-left-without-ice-rink-at-start-of-season

https://weelunk.com/wheeling-nailers-find-temporary-home-at-wheeling-park-ice-rink/

The Nailers are practicing at Southpointe and/or Wheeling Park right now. They apparently hope to get a temporary ice surface in place in time to start their season in Wesbanco. As far as I can tell there's no news about when Wesbanco will have ice yet, though they're hoping to have ice for their home opener on October 19.

12 hours ago, Mitch said:

Thanks everyone. I wish we could cover JV too, we tried to cover the finals last year as a beta and a North Catholic game because they reached out. We’re trying more AAA/AA this year so who knows what we could get 

It's a great site, Mitch, and I think one that hockey people in Pittsburgh really appreciate.

It's generally best to invest in skating, all other things being equal. That's my view, anyway. Unless he has major deficiencies elsewhere, everyone can always profit from skating work.

Solid coverage of hockey from varsity on up. I wish they had time to cover JV, too.

16 minutes ago, twoboys said:

I think Eddie was making the point that the only way to have college paid for is to play Division 1.  If either of my kids want to play hockey in college I think it would be great if they could play Club or Division 3 hockey. 

My goal has always been that my kids love hockey enough to still be playing when they are my age. Division 3 or club in college would be a wonderful bonus.

Saucey, I have been worried myself for some time about the effect that all the layers of paperwork and the absurd parenting will have on coaching in the future. I know of more than one team that didn't have a coach at the time of placements, forcing players to accept placements to a team on faith that the team would actually still exist at the start of the season.

Regarding parents in the stands being covered by SafeSport, at least where my kids play (both PIHL and PAHL) coaches, players, and parents are all required to sign a code of conduct. At least one of the Codes of Conduct we signed explicitly cites SafeSport. Sadly you see far too few organizations actually expecting their people to actually comply with their code of conduct, and I suspect most are only requiring parents and players to sign it to cover a legal need.

15 hours ago, Saucey said:

Why does a scorekeeper getting paid entitle parents to the score sheet? Some organizations pay kids in PAHL to keep score, are they entitled to those, too? What need does a parent have for that score sheet? 

There is a certain amount of discretion in shot counting. You can't see them all and the scorekeeper gets a different view than the parent in the stand. So....when the goalie mom clicking away on her shot counter in the stands disagrees with the number on the posted score sheet, posting the actual score sheet makes everything better how? I just don't see how this makes anyone more convinced that games aren't rigged, or how this helps in the interest of 'transparency'. Those folks who think that games are rigged are going to continue to think that, regardless, and we don't really need parents obsessively following stats. Already enough obsession.

PIHL can't find enough people to do it now for that huge 20 payout per game. 

Just suggesting that posting the scoresheet would at least make it easier to understand what had happened. I tend to agree with you that the scoresheet isn't going to satisfy anyone, just make it clearer. Having been a scorekeeper MANY times for amateur games, and having stood in the penalty box and helped count shots for various PIHL scorekeepers, I understand it's a difficult situation. Personally I don't care about statistics on a piece of paper at all - I know if my own kids played well because I was watching - but it shouldn't be an issue to show the scoresheet to everyone if it at least makes the process more transparent. At any rate you can see the shot counts on the PIHL website for every game.

I guess I don't understand why most people would want to see them, but I also don't understand why it is an issue to let people see them. I get copies of them from the business managers on the teams I coach on, anyway, as Ynot02 suggested.

18 hours ago, Paul Baxter said:

one way to solve this is to publish the actual PDF scan of each scoresheet.

If the PIHL is going to pay people to do this work, it ought to be correct and the scorekeepers should be accurate.

 

Paul is 100% right. PAHL games use parents to keep score, and in that case (that is, with volunteers) a bit of error is expected. In the case of PIHL games, however, they have paid scorekeepers and those games should be correctly scored. It's true that they record what the refs say regarding goals and assists, and if they correctly record an incorrect attribution there, that isn't the fault of the scorekeeper. But one would think that the point of paying scorekeepers is to ensure accuracy and fairness.

If that's the case, it shouldn't be an issue to post a scan of the scoresheet, in the interests of full transparency. (I get that this is an extra step in the process, but it's a pretty small one, and it would enable parents and coaches to review the statistics as entered into the computer. God knows there are plenty of both who think the game is rigged against their player(s).)

Probably everyone here is aware of this already, but:

http://burghhockey.com/belmont-ice-issues-force-changes-pihl-teams/

On Belmont's web page they're saying six weeks until ice at this point.

I see a load of complaining from a bunch of guys who sure can officiate just fine from the stands.

I am not an official, and I wouldn't even attempt it. But here are my thoughts:

Do officials make bad calls? Yes.

Are there area rinks that seem to always have lower quality officiating? I think the answer to this is yes. I can think of one in particular that always seems to have questionable officiating.

Are games sometimes decided by a bad call at a bad moment? Yes, sometimes, and that's a shame. But I say that if you put yourself in a position for a ref to take a game from you that's really your fault. I don't think that's nearly as frequent as anecdotal stories seem to suggest.

Are there rinks who have frequent officials who are particularly friendly to the home teams? Well, I think that I can think of one (that might be my own biases creeping in). And that's also a shame. But to hear the hockey community talk, it sounds like every official is a 'homer' ref and you can't get a good ref anywhere. That is not true, in my view.

Officiating is really in a crisis right now. The statistics regarding young officials who drop out of it before they even finish their training are depressing. I'm sure sometimes it's that they just decided that officiating isn't for them, but we all know that a big reason why there are few of them (and getting fewer) is that they are constantly under attack. You can read more about this in the most recent issue of USA Hockey Magazine.

Officials are part of the game whether you're happy with them or not. And we can all hope that officiating in the southwestern PA area improves over time, but honestly I go to a large number of amateur and high school games, and the way parents behave makes me wonder why anyone would ever want to do that job. I wouldn't do it -  I've heard plenty of stories about parents waiting to accost officials after games. Nobody here will ever start a thread about how stupid and boorish that behavior is.

To be clear, I'm not defending poor officiating. Just amused by the whining.

2 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

This is why.

12U is still considered a training age so the schedulers will normally give those anyone with a badge. Plus, the "better" guys won't bother with a $35-40 game.

 

 

This is the explanation I've been giving to the parents who ask about it, yes.

28 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

Been involved in four 16U scrimmages/placement games so far and I have to say the officiating has been quite good. Parents have been well behaved as well. It's pretty refreshing actually. A small sample I know, fingers crossed it will last. 

My kids have played two placement games each. One's a U16 and one's a PeeWee. The officiating at both midget games was pretty good, and the PeeWee games were not so good.

It is what it is.