HockeyDad23

Just now, Lifelongbender said:

Especially since they keep telling us that there will be a vaccine in November, Wait, December...

Folks can't talk out of both sides of their mouth. Can't say "we need a vaccine asap to stop this."   And then say "you discovered a vaccine too quickly."   Well what is the appropriate discovery time for a disease that has been deemed similar to the spanish flu?

2 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

You are incorrect.  "Dem states" such as NY, MI, MA, NJ, CA all wanted federal assistance, particularly in PPE and testing.  Trump played the political game by saying they were on their own because they were not nice to him ( with exception to CA Governor Newsome ), yet red states such as KY, FL, the Carolina's had no issues getting federal support.    

My mistake. I had thought Cuomo got the necessary PPE and support.  I didn't realize Trump didn't send it to those states.

2 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, not sure what world you are in.  The only rinks I know of that are strictly enforcing the 25 are UPMC, RMU.  I see all kinds of people at other rinks playing full Hockey games.  Why would a private rink want to enforce that mandate if it is Unconstitutional? The only question I see is how the PAHL and PIHL are going to interpret it and how USA Hockey and Mid Am see it.

I didn't say I was in another world. No reason to be an asshole.  I said a rink owner hypothetically could choose to keep the limit to 25 people and still abide by the Gov mandate because he/she thinks that is what they are supposed to do. I highly doubt they will put their business on the line and pull out the 66 page document and scream and yell "but I can have more than 25 it says it here.". Try to keep up big fella. Ask Siri to read it to you next time.

1 minute ago, sarampage said:

Haven't had a chance to go through it, but here's the 66 page Opinion.  It starts to address gathering limits on page 21. 

https://www.scribd.com/document/476044345/County-of-Butler-v-Wolf-OPINION

 

I read the whole thing. While it says limiting gatherings is unconstitutional and unenforceable by the governor, that is not to say the county or a private business cannot evoke the limit. So an ice rink business can choose to keep their indoor limit at 25 because they still feel they need to abide by the governors mandate. Really depends on how informed or ballsy the owner is. Doubt anyone is going to put their business on the line. Therefore I say it means nothing sadly.

4 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Upmc claims to have the cure, hopefully this madness ends. 

I hope so. Bizarre that lawmakers say we can't open up until there is a cure. Then researches indicate they may have found a cure and they say "whoa it's too early for a cure. it is unsafe." LMAO

9 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I get what you are saying and even though a lot of us don't agree on what should be done about all this, it seems logical to agree that this is too complicated for one to claim that they could do so much better in solving these problems. A lot of these government decisions do seem arbitrary on the surface. I would like to think that (right or wrong) a lot of thought and science went into them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be constantly revisited and scrutinized. Hopefully, they are constantly looking to adapt based on the new data.

LOL you say hopefully because you don't know. That is not a knock on you. But no one knows. No one knows what went in to the decisions early on or now. Meaning is there a metric on a dry erase board in the Gov's task force conference room that says <5% positivity rate we boost indoors to 50 persons? There isn't. It's never talked about at the state or county level. Although I do hear the Allgy Cty health official mention positivity rates are too high. I do't know what she wants to see them at or how that dictates policy.

So I think everyone on the thread, with regards to the 25 person limit for hockey, has no idea what it will take as far as science, data, or a metric for when the PA governor will say " you know what guys. you did it. You put in the work. You wore masks. You socially distanced. Congrats. We're gonna bump you up a bit."  

No one saw a metric or goal? Much less a time table. Again I'm asking because I have not. I stare at cases, rates, breakdowns by county daily. At this point it is all numbers with no goal in mind.

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

But the "green phase" was an attempt to ease back into normalcy. People perceived it as an opportunity to go and have all the fun they want as if the virus was gone. That is why we are where we are.

@Quinlan2020 Then if that is the case the color code system was stupid. Like I said with setting goals. Society needs a goal to meet. If you give it to Americans they try. But we are still neanderthals and need simplicity. The green phase, anyone in their right mind would assume they are safe and free. You don't think anyone would go to the Gov website and read?  And here we are since June, in Green, easing in to normalcy. You blame society. I blame leadership.

1 minute ago, Danner27 said:

18 players vs 9 on bench more than likely has ZERO to do with the spread of covid. 9 other kids are sitting in a locker room together for an extended period of time. 
 

if a kid has covid, we are to believe the current science, sitting 9 kids in the locker room vs 9 kids constantly moving away from each other on the bench, you can clearly see which scenario has a greater rate of transmission. 

Amen

Just now, BeaverFalls said:

Lesson learned:  25 was never going to change. Hockey was never going to happen. 

To this day with regards to the 25, we have no goal or milestone where someone.....the science...the data will tell us when we can increase this. I mean that in all seriousness. Unless I missed it. When with PA for example say to its constituents, we want to see cases fall below X. Or deaths are too high. What is our metric for easing anything?  And I think that is the judges mind set when the Chief of Staff said we want Pennsylvanians to get used to the "new normal."  He was like HUH? 

2 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

And hospital capacity did not get overloaded so, perhaps, they worked.

Good point. So now that it worked. What is the plan? I ask that objectively. Not as a smart ass. I don't think anyone knows. We just float along. Checking stats and cases on a daily basis.

2 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Everyone is forgetting these mandates were put in place so the hospital capacity would not get overloaded. 

I remember LOL. And I think the judge's point was in PA, there never was or is a play to go back to normal. It is open ended. Seems open ended was OK for a bit. But now no other branches of our government are brought back in to the process of law and mandate setting. It rests with the governor and his panel. Whom remain unnamed. 

4 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

I understand why you asked this, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to keep playing with 9 players on a bench and halves instead of periods for an entire season when the option of playing normally is open. 

If what you were hinting at is the question of how the games played under the weird rules will be counted with respect to team record and player statistics, that's a very interesting question, and I agree that there will be arguments aplenty on that one should the situation present itself.

What about rinks that do not comply with 25 rule?  I could argue as a coach we went to rinks that let us play the game the right way and wont 12 games. Team B had strict requirements at their arena and got smoked all year because they couldn't play the game the right way. Lots of opportunities to say "but hey they didn't have to do it...."

Just now, aaaahockey said:

Here is another question - if we start the season with some weird format is everyone ok if we were to be able to switch halfway through to a different format?  Could make for some interesting arguments. 

I don't want to be picky. Part of me says play the game the right way or not at all. The other part of me wants to be appreciative for what we have if it is just something. I guess a third party of me says is this stuff all getting arbitrary in an effort to be able to just say "we're doing something"  or "it's in our plan."  I've heard, as you all have too, things that just don't make sense.  Trick treat might have candy sitting out. So you get it yourself versus handing it out. Does that make sense when kids will be running around the neighborhoods anyways reaching in to bowls with snotty hands? Or schools shut down on Wed for a cleanse of the whole building and then Thurs a new group of kids come in. But the teacher is still the common denominator day to day. And does the virus live beyond 24 hours on surfaces that schools even need to deep clean? I'm rambling.

I guess MidAm is content on sitting back with no guidance on how to pay hockey. Although I'm not a fan of the mask wearing during play in MI, at least it is clear guidance to resume playing.  We're stalled out at 25 for indoors which is still bizarre and arbitrary.

2 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Suicides are up.

Drug use and overdose deaths are up.

Mental health issues are up. Way up.

You know why? Because Americans DO NOT want to live the way the f@#$ing liberals want us to.

Quinlan, move to Cuba or Venezuela now. You are not going to like what happens in the next few weeks/months

 

I remember watching Trump step on his tongue. Saying he had "total control" over the states. Turns out constitutionally he was wrong. All he could do was offer support to the states. And in dem states they said "no thanks."  He could only sit back and watch. And the reality of it all it actually worked out better for him. He never had to determine who was essential and who wasn't. Never evoked marshall law by keeping people locked up. The governors did that.

2 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Just stay home. Forever. Shrivel up and.......... well, you know.

Hey don't get me wrong. I think early on we needed to take some steps to get our arms wrapped around this thing. But you can't declare a pandemic for years. And control who is open and who isn't.  The business owners listed have a case for why is a big box store more essential than them.

My biggest take away from this is as follows:

-A governor, or anyone for that matter, cannot simply go on in perpetuity not involving other branches of government. At some point the other branches needed to be involved. And the lack of effort involving them is clearly demonstrated in the steady veto of bills by the governor.

-It was not a good look to set up a task force to make decisions on behalf of the governor that have no experience medicine. Not to mention to go on to be quoted you did not know that the indoor limit was 25 people.  It demonstrates you are not involved in these decisions that affect people's lives.

-The ruling shows there was never a plan to "open up" or go "green." It was mostly arbitrary.  From the get go essential vs non essential should have been defined. And it clearly shows an over reach by most governors to keep people home.  I don't think CDC ever said "stay home." But yet governors were following the expert opinions and the science. 

There are some other disturbing findings in the document. Forget the opinion because he is an appointed trump judge. Just read the facts. They are scary.

Just now, Quinlan2020 said:

My point is to hold off on the parade. It's not over and it's going to go on a lot longer if attitudes let it. I'm not even saying that it should be fear & panic all over the place. Too many many people are trying to prove that this pandemic just isn't a big deal. I don't exactly know what we we should be doing/not doing, but have faced the fact that we'll be stuck in this rut if attitudes don't change. I agree that common sense social distancing solutions without closures of things is probably the best way to move on. I just hear all this stuff that is the opposite of common sense. People just keep trying to post links/charts to convince everyone to act like Covid is just a cold or flu. That will just cause more cases and more reason for people to panic. Then we'll just tell people not to panic, but they will.

Understood. But everyone has a different tolerance of fear. Can't poo poo someone that thinks this is no big deal or doesn't want to wear a mask. That's on them. I think you're just beating a dead horse by forcing them to "see the light." Isn't gonna happen. 

35 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

Nice charts. As I was saying.... It's highly unlikely that you will die. So far in the United States, we are at over 180.000 and climbing about 1,000 per day. Don't worry about it. You probably don't know any of those people and many of them are retirees that you probably see as unproductive. Their families care about them, but you don't even know their families so you are not affected. Yes, there will be a small number of young people that die or have long-term health effects but these numbers will be small enough to keep the odds low that it will happen here. It will be other peoples' kids and you are free to send them some thoughts and prayers. 

Bro you're at it again. Why are you always pissing on everyone's parade with your passive aggressive tactics?  If as you say the elderly are the ones dying then why are we as a society not implementing measures to protect them?  Is the only mitigation tactic to make everyone in the country wear a mask? Social distance? I don't even have any family in the area much less than someone elderly. The deaths mostly occur in nursing homes. Maybe start there with protection instead of sending Covid police to inspect restaurants or bars.

Less than 24 hours before the House votes on the bill.

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

But none of the things that you have listed have been banned by state mandates/restrictions. It's Wolf this and Wolf that. What is the state preventing you from doing? Keep in mind that PIAA has mandated no spectators.

My thread says nothing about Wolf. Nothing banned by the state. I simply mean bans/mandates regardless of who issues them. But if you are bringing up state / Wolf mandates, he is issuing the 25 person capacity for indoors. But you knew that.

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

That's the best you can do? You think there is a mandate against shaking hands?

And all the professional sports teams are on board with the no fans policy. Do you really think that is just a Pennsylvania thing? School?

State government is allowing schools to make their own decision and some are going full five days.

So there are no night clubs & comedy clubs open in PA? Excuse me. That is quite a hardship then. Can you maybe take a little drive to a neighboring state for such an essential activity?

I can now see clearly why no one likes you.  You have all the answers don't ya? Why can't you listen instead of marginalizing what somebody feels or says? You asked me for what we cannot do that we did before. I told you. No reason to belittle and consider my remarks minor.  And you didn't ask for hardship. You asked, 

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

Therefor I responded. The advice of medical professionals is to not shake hands and to social distance.  That is great sports teams are on board with no fans. Again, you asked what was different under covid.

State government is allowing schools to make a decision. Not all are going full time in person.

And lastly I'll keep in mind to take a quick trek over to Ohio next time for my essential activity.

You must be so blessed and fortunate that life hasn't changed. That is so awesome and amazing for you. However, what has transpired since March has been different for everyone. You should practice a little humility and listen to others pain regardless of how trivial it might be to you.

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

OK. There is nothing here that I didn't mention. Personally...What would you like to do now that you are not allowed to?

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

Live life daily without a mask. Have the kids go back to school full time not on a pc. Go to a night club or comedy club with friends. Have the entire family watch HS football or any sport for that matter. Go to a Penguins game, pirates game, tailgate at a Steeler game. Play regular hockey. Shake hands vs a wave. I could keep going on and on.  

Allegheny county just released more info that the recovery rate is 96%.  Most and I mean most deaths are 60+ with the majority being 70+ and in long term care facilities.  Society continues to mask up and modify life for a select few. We knew from day one and know now the disease spreads fast and can hurt the vulnerable. With all this data and precautions we still can not protect seniors in long term care facilities. These are facts in all states. So the remedy is everyone mask up and modify life.

22 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I guess I am not aware of the restrictions other than closed bars, limited restaurant capacity, 250 limit for outdoor gatherings, 25 for indoor gatherings & certain businesses are limited to 50% capacity.  Am I missing something. Could someone please enlighten me on what I am missing?

I think PA is most restrictive because of the steadfast and stringent requirements. For example, some states say no more than 25 indoors if you can't social distance.  That is a lot looser than 25 indoors period.  Some other requirements are outlined in greater detail in other states making clear direction or more wiggle room on their guidelines. PA guidelines are hard lines on caps. No wiggle room no additional guidance. 

This article is pretty good at showing what each state does. I find it fascinating actually. Some have really gotten creative and thought some of our everyday life activities through. We seem to offer a 1 size fits all for everything we do in PA.

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html