HereWithPopcorn

36 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Saw 18u Esmark defeat 18u Pens Elite.  Twice.  Was that expected?

Yep.  Look at the rankings.

Another banner 0-5 weekend for the Preds! 

And now it appears that rumors are surfacing that there are some players moving up to the U16 team and the U15 team is trying to bring in other kids from PAHL teams and high schools to backfill.  Any truth to this?

I think the only correction here is that it is the Icemen (#113 out of 123) that will probably take the title of biggest money grab.  But the Preds being #83 and getting drubbed again this weekend by Carolina is getting them back into the title hunt.

Saw this one last week.

Goalie freezes the puck and referee in the corner blows the whistle and starts skating toward the net along the goal line.  After whistle starts, opposing team pokes goalie and the puck goes in the net.  While in stride along the goal line, and still blowing the whistle, the referee then points goal seeing this all happen after he already blew the play dead.

15 minutes ago, Ynot02 said:

Yes! And many others. 

Why does everyone care how others choose to spend their money? What one person views as a money grab, others see as an opportunity. To each their own. All of these AAA teams are likely not AAA talent, but there is no point in degrading anyone or their choices. 

Because at the end of the day it is not how others spend their money that is the issue, it is the lack of guidance and education on said product that has a trickle down impact at all levels.  Honestly I don't care who puts their money where, but when you create these faux AAA teams (Icemen, Preds and apparently Hornets since they split with Palmyra) that now takes 50-60 players out of the AA pool for PAHL.  Then because of this, you get 50-60 A level players, and parents, that now move up to a watered down AA and it continues down to A+, etc.  

So now the few money grabber teams basically allow entire subsets of people to move up higher than they should be per their skill/talent, and then that provides the misguided optics the following season when they then think their kid is AAA material.

So for the tide to eventually turn back to normal, and since MidAm allows these teams to form, it is up to the general public to try and provide a voice and educate people on these issues or it will continue to spiral out of control.  Just look at how many AAA organizations came into existence or expanded in the last 10 years.  And this includes places like SHAHA, Preds and others creating Squirt and PeeWee independent teams as well eluding playing PAHL that early, and the Vengeance/Renegades having dual independent/PAHL teams at these young levels.  The Pens already corrupted the 2011's with their Super Mites, so it is a big ship to turn around at this point.

21 minutes ago, Unknown3493 said:

@Jack Handey 

I actually am not a parent of either of those teams matter of fact I am not a parent and I don’t play for any of those teams but I do know people who do play I think they are a strong team someone told me to check this website out Because there was this guy(@whome87) who was just going on and on about this while @jmmartinprov1 is just simply trying to justify what his son and their team are doing they obviously aren’t the Ppe but I think they could give esmark a run for a game I think the preds would win like 4-2 I’ve seen the one goalie play multiple times he is a strong goalie never saw the other one but I bet he is strong too because  the preds have a pretty solid team and I think they could be a top 110 team in the country  I just don’t understand why this turned into him being an ass to have the team and those kids. And again I have no relation to these teams but I feel like the preds will be a strong team this season and more to come.

That is one long run-on sentence.

And being one of the top 110 teams is a very low bar considering there are about 123 teams listed at 15U Tier 1.

1 hour ago, Just.a.normal.guy said:

Just saw u15 preds beat the iceman 7-3. The preds dominated the game and the iceman didnt score a even strength goal. This team is legit.

Let's be honest as I saw most of that game as well.  The Icemen at best appear to be a AA level squad.  The goalie alone today for them came from a .500 Foxes team in A+ Black last season.  So this game really tells us nothing in terms of comparisons to AAA.

Well there is one easy way to solve this.  Looks like the Preds play the Icemen this Saturday at 9am so everyone can see this team first-hand

3 hours ago, Buz72 said:

Sounds like whome87 is another delusional hockey parent who has an ax to grind. Why else would he bother complaining about a team he has no connection to?  Predators have a solid reputation as a hockey organization. I don’t have any horse in this race, but let the kids play where they will and get over yourself. I’m guessing his version of his sons successful Acha team isn’t what it seems either. Probably one of those parents who drive their kids to Cleveland or Detroit but are afraid to try out for PPE. 

Let's clarify one thing from this statement, the Predators have a solid reputation as a FINANCIAL organization.  The proof is in the pudding by maxing out every roster at all levels at most years.

8 hours ago, jmmartinprov1 said:

This is quite the thread to read.

As a parent of player on this team there are so many ways I could respond to this thread. However, I have just a few questions and comments.

whome87 since you started this topic could you provide your qualifications for judging the the talent level of the team, skill level and skating ability you witnessed?

Secondly since I have stated I am a parent of this team could you provide the team your son or daughter plays for and at what level they play? AAA, AA or A? I’m just curious as this goes towards any bias you may or may not have.

Moving on to the main reason for the thread which was called biggest money grab in PGH. I’m curious as to why PPE wasn’t mentioned in your initial post? Was it ever questioned as to why PPE would field 2 Tier 1 teams at every birth year up to U15? Using an average fee of $3K that was additional $60 per birth year. Not to mention the excela academy fee of $5K which is basically mandatory to be on the Team.

As for the Predators fees, from what I understand this is how most AAA teams with Non-Parent coaches are run. The fees they pay include a coaches fee that pays for the coaches. So here is the breakdown of the fees:

Season Fees: 2400

Coaches Fee: 850

Training Fee: 250

Total : $3500

If all AAA teams have Paid coaches then I’m not seeing where there is a money grab. As for the training fee let me ask a question to all those here. How many have gym memberships, CrossFit classes etc. How much do you pay for all those? $250 pays for my player to train and do strength conditioning for the next 8 months. In my opinion a little over $30 a month is not a bad deal. 
 

As for the talent on this team, there 8 Kids that played in 14u AA Championship last season. There are also former PPE players on this team. The rest of team from other AA programs around the city. The vast majority of these players are also playing Varsity Hockey as Freshman and Sophomores. So saying they couldn’t beat a U12 AA team is a bit of a stretch and laughable. Which is the response you were probably looking for.

So is this a Top 50 Tier 1 team, probably not. Top 100, I think so. This team does have talent and will be competitive. 

The thing that makes me a little uneasy is as I read back over the thread and listen to you (whome87) talk about how these kids have no talent and couldn’t make the xyz team and have to wonder did your son or daughter not make this team or another AA or AAA team that has you so angry? 
 

Again these are just my opinions as are yours.

 

Let's be clear.  Just because kids played in a PAHL AA championship game does not automatically graduate them to AAA the next season.

For a direct comparison, look at the National Champion from two seasons ago at 14U AA.  They combined most of their best players with the Preds and some other Pens Elite kids and still finished middle of the pack in AAA that season in MidAm.  And that team had way more talent on it, and didn't have to dip down to A level players to fill out the roster.

Finally using kids playing Varsity as a comparison is not one at all.  More times than not, that dictates the size of the school and their talent pool rather than the talent of the player.  In larger programs, only kids who truly deserve it as freshman and sophmores make it, but for smaller programs, it happens pretty regularly out of necessity.

I have also heard the horror stories about the fees that seem to be increasing at every turn.  And there is some truth to what everyone has said about this roster.  There are a few quality AAA kids on there, but the vast majority would be on a 16U A level team this coming year.  I just don't see how a roster that is about 60% comprised of kids at mid AA level teams, and some A level teams can join forces and all of a sudden be AAA?

Actually, maybe that was it.  They took the AA players, and by throwing in the few A level players that got them the extra 'A' they were looking for!

6 hours ago, sample39 said:

Eddie, I think removing body checking at 12U has amplified the parent paranoia, and in some areas hindered the kids development.  I understand the thought process behind removing it 8 or so years ago, but respectfully disagree with it.  It's better for players to learn and acclimate themselves to body-checking at a younger age, where both first and second year players are still relatively small.  At bantam, the size discrepancy is much larger.  You can have a first year player at 4'11 and 85lbs go up against a second year player who is 5'10 and 160lbs.  That's the nature of bantam hockey.  When you factor in the first year player having no experience with checking, specifically lacking good habits to properly protect themselves, then things can get dangerous.  They should consider reintroducing body-checking back into 12U, however, I fear they're more likely to remove it from 14U.  

And now thanks to USA Hockey, we can't bang the boards to let the 4'11" kid know that the hit is coming

14 hours ago, The King said:

Try reading the informed and experienced post I made. Try real hard to understand it. Then ask around to some people that have actually experienced the game at a level other than watching their kids play and critiquing the decision makers from a distance. You don’t see anything other than an insult because you don’t have the experience to understand the depth of the post. Be grateful I brought some interest to your otherwise bland and sad thread. Understand, cutting and pasting USA Hockey propaganda will never impress me or anyone that fights for the dying art of developing amateur athletes. You feed the beast by emptying your pockets to rink owners, celebrity camp administrators and friends of your favorite pro athletes. Lots of folks in this area still use the sport as a vehicle to participate in the lost art of human development in the form of amateur coaching. They don’t make a living off fools and they certainly don’t encourage this gross and obscene abuse of human nature that’s become the culture that supports sportsmanship initiatives and sensitivity training. The same people that love hearing a trainer tell them their kid is the next big thing is the same one that crumbles when he’s the butt of a quoted 3 Stooges joke. Again, stay in your lane and learn something.

King is definitely right here.  USA Hockey is a propaganda machine and spews out this kind of stuff all of the time.  Explain to be too how the ADM, which is geared primarily  toward the development at the Mite level, but has practice plan ideas for Squirt and above helped Turcotte after his 12U season?  Also, the direct quote says that after he was "taken into the program" he fell in love again.  Well of course he did since he was in the National Program.  Its not like he had a coach he didn't like and went to another amateur organization and found ADM.

Each year is making it harder and harder for even regular everyday dads to be a coach.  Just look at the fact that now SafeSport trainings have to be done yearly as opposed to every other year.  What does that solve?  Is someone going to forget in the off-year from watching those hours of videos?  And as we all know, just because you watched videos, it doesn't make you a good person or prevent you from a future crime.

Add too all of these rules now being forced on officials, and the way they want them to call them (banging the boards) and you are going to see fewer officials not wanting to jump through the hoops.

And lets not forget limiting players with an example of MidAm placing the 2007 player rule for Middle School limiting the number of kids that can participate there.

We all complain about those that chase the extra 'A' and what it is doing to AA hockey and further down to the house level.  In my opinion, USA Hockey is doing the exact same thing where these rules and regulations just further limit those that can play and volunteer.

55 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I have heard the same.  One parent I spoke to whose son was cut by PPE said in not so many words that PAHL AA was beneath them and their son would only play for his school.  Pretty pompous if you ask me.  

Hell, the Black team is equivalent to PAHL AA.

6 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I had heard of at least two orgs were short on 05 talent and in lieu of having an 05 BY team they went with an 05/06 mixed team..........anyone know if this is true or not?  

South Hills for one is set up that way and would have to assume that as well with the Predators with the 05 team in place.

At the end of the day, the 05 birth year is weak in terms of numbers and too many teams, especially with the third 'A' to populate quality through to the AA level.

9 minutes ago, discodan said:

Preds  Update

18U- Will struggle to score goals. Most of their talent aged out from last year and the kids moving up from 16AAA last year were one of the worst teams in the country. 3 of those players will be lucky to make the team and 2 play D. A player from AA Foxes last year was the best offensive talent at tryouts and I don't know if he will stay. Team will be average at best.

16U- This is a good team. Not sure what they will do on a national level but there is talent here. Their top end guys are players.

15U- As someone mentioned previously this team wouldn't win AA PAHL. A few of these players may decline also. Don't want to get bashed all season long.

And what about the 14U update???  I have heard the same about the 15U team being generally a mix of AA players from several PAHL orgs last year.

Not getting the rationale by MLHA having 04 and 05 tryouts over MidAm Select Camp weekend, and then selecting a full 2005 roster while there could be cast-offs from the 05 AAA Preds going on right now.  Could leave a few quality players out there looking for a home by the end of this week.

11 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

It makes you wonder how often, if at all teams get full ice practices.

Early on there is full ice on weekends before games begins, then during gaps in games in the regular season schedule and when teams they partner practice with are out of town.  So generally about 5-10 a season per team.

38 minutes ago, Paul Baxter said:

I stand corrected.  Thank you.

To correct it even further, there were 8 ADM teams and 20 full ice teams (Girls U12, 5 Squirts, 6 PeeWees, 5 Bantams and 3 Midgets.

Also, they are starting season 4 of a 10 year agreement for the single sheet

Apparently there must have been a lot of action in the bedroom after the Pens won the Sidney lottery in 2005 to have all of these 2006's out there.

Basically now too, we have jumped everyone up by a letter to get the extra "A".  You have an influx of AAA teams with the Predators, SHAHA, Vengenance and Esmark to go with the Pens, and then will have countless birth year teams to fill the PAHL faux AA Minor division.

Doing the math at 15 skaters and 2 goalies per team, that is basically saying that Western PA has 204 AAA/AA players (6 AAA and 6 AA teams)

I guess the only question now is when does AAAA get created???

19 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

I have not heard of other organizations shutting down registration, however I am not surprised when it comes to NP.  RMU / Foxes has always had strong numbers for Squirt level teams as they have always had a large in-house Mite program, and NP has done a great job in building their own.  

Additionally they probably have a team forecast to support only 'x' number of teams at each level based on their ownership of ice slots.  If that reaches maximum capacity, it is better to shut registration off at that age than take all comers and have to make cuts leaving kids stranded.  

At least at Bantam/Midget players have JV/V to fall back on in most cases.

Good on North Pittsburgh to stay within their means and do it the right way as well.

50 minutes ago, What the.. said:

In defense of baleout21...This is what it says on the Renegades website so I’m thoroughly confused also. 

Reading this is like an ice cream parlor saying that we potentially will have vanilla, or have chocolate, or have both.  It just depends on what the delivery driver brings to us.

Good luck to the Renegades/Vengeance when the results turn out to be a chocolate/vanilla twist and a mash up of everything!

Talk about "no days off", after winning the National Championship in the morning, some of the 16U players were at UPMC last night for Excel Academy

Never a fan of Steve Emmett's work.  He was at SHAHA years ago and while he set up good drills, he just had kids go through the motions and not make individual critiques or corrections with skaters.  Even in groups, Marianne and Barb take kids aside and personally instruct them in group settings to give it that personal touch.

It's not dealing with Nationals, but PIHL seems to pick and choose spots to enforce specific rules.  For example, you get some organizations that can't field a team because they don't have a goalie in their district, or are permitted to play them up from Middle School to JV/V, but then you have instances like South Park winning JV with TJ kids on their roster.