Saucey

Where do you live? When do you want to play?  Check out the options at the rink nearest you first, then find out the answers to those questions from whoever runs the adult league program at those rinks. RMU, Bairel and Lemieux have B leagues. C would probably be fine for you, too.

Couple Facebook groups to join. Pittsburgh Adult Hockey and Bairel Adult Hockey. Search the Facebook pages, people ask this type of question all the time and people post looking for goalies. Center Ice also seems to have people active on Facebook.

17 hours ago, JohnnyBenderlegs said:

Wasn't trying to troll or bait. I really wanted to know what options were out there I might have overlooked. 

After a discussion we are going to try out at one or two but if it doesn't work out who cares.

Usually the people stirring up trouble...stir up trouble. In this post, it was other members doing the stirring. Hope you got something from this silly place, and good luck to your child.

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Great post, but this mainly applies to the older ages. You’re going to get a range of emotions and mixed signals from a young kid, none of which mean you should throw in the towel on hockey, or AAA hockey. Nor do I think you (in general) can judge a Pens kid, or any kid, who doesn’t want to be at the rink at 5am. I guarantee 10 year old Sidney Crosby probably didn’t want to get up at 4:30 in the AM to go practice, then go to school. 

There are people who can’t wait to get to their jobs, but getting out of bed to get there is a project. 

 

Good points. I guess that depends on if you think kids that young should be be getting into elite programs/labeled elite in the first place. (I don't.)

28 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I get tired of reading the insult threads, too. Someone had a legit question, then any people trying to respond get lost once the insults start. I have participated in the threads, too, and regret it. Let's just ignore the trolls, if no one responds, then the thread will remain pretty clean.

Amidst the insults, though, there is a point made, johnnybender legs, as I said originally, most of these programs trying to be AAA don't really have true higher level options. They aspire, but if they do not have the level of talent that they are looking for try out, the higher level will not get off the ground. Tryouts will make that apparent. My Hockey Rankings can help you sort that out, as well.

Does your kid dominate at the AA level? If not, AA is still a good choice.

Also, if the desire is to improve skills, dollar for dollar, the best money spent is on private lessons with someone good over the summer. And that is tricky, because the ones who are good are some times picky about who they will work with. They want a kid with natural athletic ability who wants to be there and will work. If Mom and Dad are driving the bus, there won't be gains for the time and money spent.

I work with a woman who has a high schooler who will be division one for baseball. He has had the same private coach his whole life. Other parents ask this coach to make their kid like my friend's child. The coach tells them he can't do that. He then describes what the kid has done on his own his whole life to get better, and it involves lots of reps and training on his own time. There are few kids willing to put in that kind of work on their own.

I see the miserable kids in the early am  before school at the rink waiting for their privates, obviously not wanting to be there. Some of them are wearing Pens Elite stuff. I think, what a waste. 

The elite programs don't want you to know this. They are happy to take your money while telling you they will make your child better. It's a two way street, though. Your kid has also be an athlete, and have the passion.

Take a hard look at your child. Be honest with yourself before getting on the 'elite' bus. Who is driving that bus? If it is you, both you, your child and your pocket book are going to be so much happier in the long run if you do not get on.

I get tired of reading the insult threads, too. Someone had a legit question, then any people trying to respond get lost once the insults start. I have participated in the threads, too, and regret it. Let's just ignore the trolls, if no one responds, then the thread will remain pretty clean.

Amidst the insults, though, there is a point made, johnnybender legs, as I said originally, most of these programs trying to be AAA don't really have true higher level options. They aspire, but if they do not have the level of talent that they are looking for try out, the higher level will not get off the ground. Tryouts will make that apparent. My Hockey Rankings can help you sort that out, as well.

Does your kid dominate at the AA level? If not, AA is still a good choice.

Any head contact also became a 2 and a 10 this year, and any discretion taken away from the ref on that one. I have no problem with that rule, wish the NHL did it, just to emphasize stay away from the head. BUT as other people said, even if the contract was minimal or incidental, it's crappy to then lose your FPP. FPP is meant to minimize bad behavior. Unintentional behavior is penalized.

I think it kind of depends on your kids' birth year. Some of the programs really only have one legitish AAA team at a certain birthyear. And the kids move around each year. You need to talk to some parents with kids playing in those programs to figure out where rumor has them trying out this year.

Look for coaching, if you are going to spend that $$, my two cents. 

20 hours ago, Moj said:

I guess when I said limited travel I should have clarified that we did not have that many travel dates scheduled at the beginning of the season. We decided as a group of parents to add a few during the season when our team received invites from top 5 teams in the country. As a group we chose to travel to play against these teams and nobody in the Vengeance organization told us we had to travel. Since you seem pretty good with technology take a picture of last years schedule, if my memory is correct didn't that other team go to Boston for 4 games against 2 different opponents. I wander how many families gave the thumbs up for that trip. The thing I like about the Vengeance is we have some input on the schedule and where and who we choose to play. If you are a high level team you have to travel to play competition. Example, not sure if it is to the minute but I believe the 11th ranked team and he 7th ranked team are about 25 minutes down the turnpike. As a parent on the Vengeance I know for a fact the large majority of the families would like to play the other team as often as possible and even speaking to several families on the other team they seem to feel the same. I wonder Why the AAA Detroit teams play each other and Chicago AAA teams play one another. Come to think of it for the life of me I just can't seem to wrap my head around this. Can you shed some insight on this in a 3-1 game with shots on goal pretty even everybody I talked to seem to agree it was a good game.

Is that the 3-1 game that happened way back in November discussed on the thread where the two dads were getting into a play by play over who was the better team? I really have to go and Livebarn that one, I missed the squirt game of the decade, apparently.

You could definitely use that in Vengeance promotional materials. We only lost to the Pens Elite by two!

I don't blame Pens Elite if they don't want to play local teams, with that kind of reaction. The level of obsession with that game STILL is extraordinarily obnoxious.

13 minutes ago, Ref33 said:

Not true. The play is clear as day on LB.  It was a hit/non hit by the Vipers. I can pull it later. Was it a penalty? From the ref's (who called it) angle it looked like a penalty. From the other refs angle it wasn't. Regardless the coaches reaction to that call had nothing to do with protecting his players.

I don't think it matters what happened leading up to it. You don't need to know anything else about the game to know that the behavior was out of line.  All the rest is an explanation for  feeling angry, whether he was right or not to feel it, who cares. As a parent, I expect a coach to control their anger and behave accordingly.

The kids...ya, 14 year olds struggle to control their emotions and reactions. The games I see, there is frequently bad behavior on both sides of the puck. All the more reason to demand that their coaches be good role models.

It's just not defendable. Good that he owned up to it, but I would worry he'd do something similar again. If it was isolated, then maybe not.

16 hours ago, Ref33 said:

Control starts at home. You listen to the voices from the stands during these games and it's pretty apparent that isn't happening. My favorite was the dad arguing with the rink staff that is was his 1st amendment right to yell at the refs. Yep. That's what he said.

Then we move on to the coach. His behavior during the first period of the game shows that he ins't really worried about control either.

Yes lastly the refs have some work to do. But when it appears the first two groups aren't doing the job its going to be pretty difficult for the refs.

I"ve had a parent tell me that they have the right to say whatever they want, too. ? First amendment rights only come into play when it is a government actor suppressing speech, people. You absolutely do not have a right to be verbally abusive from the stands. Violates most organization, rink and USA hockey policies.

Basic civics lesson. The public needs one.

On 2/15/2019 at 10:27 PM, lferg said:

 

Go for it. And it will help him make a better team at NP next year.

How do you figure? He has the skills that he is going to have right now, a try out isn't going to help him get on a better team between now and the next tryout. If you really want to spend $$, spend the tryout fee on a lesson. Dollar for dollar, if you are looking to improve a skill, private lessons with a good instructor are the best bang for your buck over anything, really. But to expect anything now to help much for this year's try out is a bit much. He is where he is at this point, anyone who tells you something different is most likely trying to get in your wallet.

Lessons over the summer are the best time for those gains. Cut costs by sharing the lesson with a similarly skilled bud or two.

That being said, keep him moving on the ice before tryouts so he doesn't lose his skate legs and he doesn't get rusty. However you do it, through a private, a tune up, a public skate, stick time, any of that works. A try out is not good for that purpose.

What is at NP's rink between now and tryouts? Do you know families on the travel teams you can talk to? NP director of hockey ops? Most rinks and programs offer things to keep the rust off before tryouts. Probably get better info there on what you need to make a team then from here where people post anonymously.

43 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Officiating is difficult and thankless in all sports but you can't play without them.  Can anyone post a link for how to go about becoming a Hockey Referee?  Any idea how much they get paid per game in the PAHL? PIHL? College games?

I see a lot of younger Officials. Any idea of the age limit to become an official?  From what I have seen for the most part they are trying out there.  That's good enough for me.

https://www.usahockey.com/officials

It's time consuming and a little expensive upfront to become an official. USA hockey allows a minimum age of 12 but every state has different child labor laws. Every year they have a bunch of kids go to the seminar and never complete the training. If they complete it, they quit in the first few years, a lot of them citing parents. We have a shortage now, and each year it gets worse. 

It pays pretty good, depends on the program. About $30 an hour.

The comment about ice views is dead on. I read somewhere that there are actually six different views of the ice. This was driven home for me recently, I watched on Livebarn a pass I was particularly proud of because I made it through a ton of traffic and it wasn't easy to see my teammate. The Livebarn view made it look completely unexceptional, to my supreme disappointment. What you see from above is not what you see on ice.

My child did not make a travel team first time out of the gate as a squirt. There is a lot of movement as players decline spots, so even if he doesn't get an invite at first, there is still a chance. Now he plays fairly high level hockey and works his butt off. And there is no shame in making a lower team. Kids are better served playing with like skill. They develop so much better that way. It is not a bad thing to experience a little disappointment, but to try out at Pens Elite 'just to see'....that is expensive and a bit time consuming. I would use that money to take him to a Pens game. You are still handing money over to the Pens, but it may be more enjoyable.

22 hours ago, Rico said:

Points are used in placements for kids? Elaborate? What does an individual child’s point total have to do with rankings? 

 

Goal totals, etc are kept by PAHL to help with division placements. Nothing to do with individual rankings the way you are thinking. They look at a team...what division the players were in the year before...some algorithm is used. It's why squirts gets extra placement games -- aside from the adjustment to full ice, there isn't much data on them.

My boy did PSU last year and loved it. Not much sleep happens and the dorm was very hot. 

Precision Edges by Rich, near RMU. 4122999122. 

This isn't just PAHL, it's USA Hockey, isn't it? I thought I would hate it but the kids adjusted pretty quick and now I like it. Not sure that you need a system in place, just some players who can stick handle and skate. Icing the puck is pretty mindless, I like that the rule requires the kids to think a bit to get the puck out. Automatic offsides does stink, I think Peewees can play tag up and leave that to the Squirts.

2 hours ago, Big Earn said:

Again, you suggest parents being hard/critical of their kids, refs, and staff.  The stands I sit in, I don’t see this.  Like I said, your experiences are different from everyone on this board, at least most.  My response comes because I sit here reading advice from you and a few others who are suggesting you have all the answers, and the rest of us know nothing.  Call it arrogant, condescending, or whatever you’d like.  Again, it appears we can go at this for years, I’m just suggesting that you and the other geniuses on this board don’t have all the answers, and your experiences are not going to be the same as others, much like life, which it appears some may need to look to obtain one.  ✌️

? I don't have all the answers, youth hockey, youth sports in general are a mess. Glad my kids age out soon.

Get a life? I'm not the one taking the time to dissect a youth sports game on a public forum to try and convince someone from the other team that my kid's team is better than their kid's team. 

Look, you want to do it, you found a soulmate. PM him. No one is stopping you from having the discussion. You want to do it on a public forum, well...someone might make fun of you.

13 hours ago, Big Earn said:

I don’t see anyone on this thread stating their kid is making any show, do you?  If you don’t like the squirt talk and you’ve lived it, maybe it’s time to move on and let these folks gain their own experiences.  No one is asking you to read or respond to any of this.  Happy posting.....

Such a rude response when I was answering a question posed by someone else. If you don't like my response, you can also choose to disregard. Also, I didn't talk about people feeling like their kid is going to the show, so you must have meant to direct that comment to someone else. 

I commented and care because I see what is happening in the stands with over involved parents and I want to see the sport grow. Watch people scream at refs and taunt kids. Pick fights with other parents. It's ridiculous. 

Listen, I am not saying anything different than what USA Hockey says. Let your kid play the game. Let your coach do the coaching. 

Maybe what you really meant Big Earn is that I shouldn't waste my time because people won't quit what they are doing. Let them learn the hard way. I guess I hope that someone might be interested in skipping the hard way and not dismiss what I have seen out of hand. Pause and look at what they are doing, how it might look to others or the kids. I am not trying to be holier than thou as others have intimated. I want families to stay in the sport. I have seen if a parent is too involved, that back fires with the kid.

Perhaps because the discourse on this board is frequently condescending and offensive, that is another reason this type of advice is ignored. I probably have been guilty of being condescending. My hard eyeroll comes through I am sure. I will work on that.

On 12/28/2018 at 12:46 PM, Big Earn said:

Isn’t this post board created to discuss hockey?  People seem pretty annoyed by the current discussion, but can’t hold back from responding to the “squirt” talk.  Parents with older kids seem to forget their kids were once squirts, and this conversation took place then as well.  This isn’t new......  

I get annoyed with the 'Squirt' talk because parents who are this into their kids' games before the child is done with Santa are on the road to killing the sport for their kids. I don't see parents of older kids doing this, I don't remember seeing this level of obsession when my kids were younger and the advice I see posted here from those who have been around is, sit back, enjoy the ride, let the kids enjoy it. The only people who should be dissecting any youth game the way this post was doing it is a coach, and God bless if they have the time.

I have witnessed an inordinate amount of crazy coming from the stands of Squirt games this season, no matter who is playing. Really horrible behavior. Happens at every level, but seems most egregious with the newbies. I am glad you are into it, hockey is so much fun, but be careful you don't suck the fun right out for your kid or you will see your kid exit quick. This behavior isn't healthy for the kids or the sport.

Talk about the sport all you want, but don't obsess. Don't dissect one game like it was an NHL game because you want your kids' team to be the best in the area. Why does that matter? At nine and ten, you have a lot of hockey ahead of you, assuming your kid continues to want to play.

I have seen first hand what happens to the kids of the parents who treat their games like they are going on a talk radio show. Passion dies, and the child moves on. 

Maybe you guys should PM each other for your enlightening play by play argument over which Squirt team was better for this now, what, month and a half old game? I've been on this board for a while, and I've not seen anything like this.

Let me solve it for you...you are not going to convince the other that your team is better. What did you do, watch game tape or Livebarn to write these posts? Let it go. Sounds like there is talent on both teams and that it was a fun game, with both teams getting something out of the experience.

It is really weird to obsess so much over a kid's game. Drink some beers and move on guys. These poor kids. Must be fun riding in the back seat of your cars.

Congrats on your win, hope you enjoyed our city!

As to your question, there are a lot of aggressive teams out this way, more so as you go north into Canada and New York, and particularly after they hit Bantam and the testosterone kicks in. If you continue to travel to play, you need to prepare your players, there is still a lot of old school hockey being taught and played, although the shift to skill is happening. Sounds like they did just fine, putting the puck into the net instead of retaliating. 

22 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

https://www.lcahl.org/

https://www.wnyahl.net/page/show/105310-home

It's done that way in both of these leagues. When the numbers begin to dictate that it's feasible, why not do it

But that has been my point, this BY does not have the number of 2005s to make it feasible. Historically, Western PA has not had the numbers to do the BY model right. People look at states like Michigan and Canada, who have a very different hockey landscape than ours and say, we should do it like that. 

To make a minor division this year, they had to have some mixed BY teams in the division. Makes no sense to have done this in this BY, and only this BY.

And should it be just BY, or  BY and similar skill as well? Age over skill?

It was just dumb. The 04s playing in this division, is it good for their development? Or is it better for small organizations to say they have a AA team?

Maybe the numbers are changing to make BY a viable model. But there are few 05s around here, and that is not changing. When the PE black team is recruiting from local AA programs just to fill roster spots, there is not enough local talent in that year.

4 hours ago, Hky05 said:

Westmoreland is a mixed 04/05 team. Aren’t the other teams in the AA minor all 2005 birth year teams? 

I think there are others. There are not enough 05s to make a whole division, so you could field a team so long as you were majority 05s. Made lots of sense.

2 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Looking at the AA Minor standings, it appears the death knell of the SCIR team were a bit premature. It's also interesting to see Westmoreland quietly sitting there was just one loss. Still a lot of season left to play but the standings thus far are intriguing to say the least.

Also interesting to see Allegheny with one win. Wasn't the push to create this bracket so that they could have a AA team? PAHL seems to be moving away from proper placements to just placing teams where they request. I don't understand the huge divisions in lower levels, either, no way you can make even competition with 16, 17 teams. No wonder teams would rather schedule independently.