Saucey

I would contact the director of hockey development at organizations to see if there are any openings or get on their radar when there are. Kids tend to leave or decline spots or get hurt, leaving a spot. I would contact bigger organizations rather than ones putting anyone on a team regardless of skill. That isn't good if you care anything about development.

8 hours ago, hattrick99 said:

Does anyone know of any 07 BY supplementals?

Not supplemental but NP tries out this weekend. They were last to go I think.

22 hours ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

100%, its a new age in youth hockey unfortunately. I think that people are starting to see if you are not in the top 25 to maybe 40-50 tier 1 teams, you are not elite and AA teams can play with and beat you. Its not worth the $$ if you are not in the elite category.

 

Western PA tier 2 may very well be close to as good as the CSDHL this year. There was not a single top 30 team last year for Western PA tier 2. This year in 23/24 we could very well see 3 or more. 

Yeah don't forget this is the squirt parents we were complaining about for insane behavior in the stands just a few years ago. They definitely have superstars.

11 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

Just out of curiosity… has there been any discussion with PAHL about BB and the possibility of organizations being “owned” by the rink/BB as a for-profit entity?  
 

I would think that would have been mentioned before tryouts and maybe it has for all I know.  
 

The fact that youth sports has pretty much  become a business is creating a potential negative direction and pricing some families right out of the game.  It’s sad. 

Youth sports is big business, and the lengths people will go to in parting families from their money is disgusting. They don't care. I belong to a discussion group and a parent posted asking if a mass email they received for a camp was a money grab, and of course it was. The amount of justification that the guys making money from these camps gave, and the offense they took over it being called a money grab, was mind boggling. All the parent wanted to know was whether it was a mass email or if they should believe what the email said.

Then advertise it only as a camp. Don't couch it in all that language designed to make that parent believe that a scout somehow saw their kid play. You know what kids and parents are thinking when you pepper the email with 'personal invite' and mention 'get noticed' and whatever. If someone is savvy enough to ask, they deserve an answer. They aren't targeting that email to the kids who already have an invite to the main camp.

Not everyone has the money to spend on 'getting the experience'.

You want to make money off other people's dreams and mislead them into parting with their money, too bad if someone lets the air out of the balloon. 

All this hand wringing over the bad behavior of parents in the stands.....they are responsible for their behavior. But the sport should take a look at their own part in helping to create this monster. People weren't always trying to live off youth sports. 

What those guys were really upset about was... don't kill my cash cow by confirming that their main interest in sending you that email was your checkbook, not your kid.

Did he create a free profile from NCSA through TeamSnap? Lot of fluff comes from that, too. We did get one legit that led to something.

I am sure that team disbanding was not because of the coach. When you lose key players and presumably there was nothing there to replace them, those chasing will go somewhere else. A goalie is really important. Or maybe it was the coach, didn't have someone lined up to replace them.

Parents and families also get a narrative going.... it's not that my kid is not AAA talent, it was this one coach or this one player, but for that we would have had a great season! So they go somewhere else the next year and rinse repeat. Pretty much the grass is greener. Our geography also just still plays into it, I think. It's not an easy sell to get from a different direction to play at YMCA. 

Particularly since, if you look at Esmark's rosters at the older levels, they have fewer and fewer local kids rostered every year. That's the same complaint for PPE. The young local kids funding the rest of the older out of state teams.

It's sad that even brand spanking new parents are playing the run the gauntlet game. It costs a lot of money to do this, and yes you risk losing commitment fees.  I don't know how organizations deal with this, gets worse every year.

2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

This. At midget esmark has always gone after ppe. If it’s midget, it’s out of the norm. 

It's midget

Why are they happening before Pens? I imagine that a lot of people will still walk if they get the nod from PPE and eat the commitment fee.

No the players are not being served. If the result is this mismatch of talent, someone isn't developing or playing at the right level.

I was attacked on this Board for suggesting that club programs were telling you to go play juniors. ?

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Maybe organizations should screen the parents before tryouts!  Or maybe have the parents tryout!  Or maybe the PAHL should not let the kids of crazy parents play. Or maybe ban spectators!  Just trying to solve the crazy parents problem for you all!

Soooo....sometimes children do get passed over for these reasons. If you develop a reputation, there are coaches and orgs who will choose to not deal with you. Then there are the organizations who do. 

14 minutes ago, Jkersman01 said:

Lol. I’m all seriousness, I think the solution is rather simple. If the organization cares about its reputation in this regard, the team manager is to be held accountable for the behavior of the parents on the team. I’ve been team manager for many years and I’ve had to settle down fellow parents before. 

There are certain organizations that attract the crazy parents. Those organizations aren't interested in controlling the parents.

My family (and kids) have never been interested in playing for an organization where a holey is tolerated either on the ice or off. The behavior IS a part of the game. Eventually you get penalized, etc. And it is embarrassing. Being associated with a team calling you to girls that they shouldn't play hockey? No. No. No. I don't care how skilled the team is.

That is an awful story. Madden reported that he was let go from his Arizona college team before going to Mercyhurst. He partied too much.

We hunting unicorns now on this Board? ? Ask a ref.

59 minutes ago, BeaverFalls said:

Not entirely true for PPE players. My understanding is they can’t play HS and miss PPE practices and games but can still play HS.  
 

Now whether or not they would want to us a different story.  I think some of these programs to include even some tier II programs are playing 60-90 games plus practices, with most weekends being 3-5 games in 2-3 days.  That’s an insane amount imho- but if that’s what people want to do, more power to them. I just don’t think for overall development it’s the best nor should people feel compelled to. The body and mind can only take so much. 

Yes and you have to have a HS program cool with that. Quite frankly, you aren't really supporting a high school team if you are missing games to go to a practice. 

On 3/17/2023 at 12:09 PM, pickle said:

Probably starting to verge from the topic - perhaps what different programs offer and costs should be a different thread like the tryout times one.  This comes up in discussion every year.  From what I have seen, a lot of programs do advertise what they offer and you typically pay accordingly whether it is for the ice costs for full ice, half-ice or some kind of mix.  Other teams programs have coaching costs, off-ice training costs, etc.  I personally believe it is pretty well explained by most associations.  If it is not or you can't figure it out, you probably shouldn't be pursuing it.

This is again why good to have variety.  Not all families/players are looking for the same thing.  Some want a good experience for cheapest cost possible.  Others want the most/best no matter what the cost is.  Others want to find some kind of value in between.  Again more reason to have more options.  

I don't think options are bad. We have too many. It results in the dilution of talent and hurts development. And...what you think you want after coming out of a tryout, what a kid needs, etc are often different. We cannot and should not protect our kids from every bad thing that can happen to them. How many times have I seen a family leave in the heat of the moment only to be like...oh, my kid isn't going to the show and maybe that faux AAA team was a not such a great idea....

I mean, we have a lot of coaches on this forum. Coaches are a little better at judging what is a good fit for their kids. Parents around here, without hockey backgrounds, trust no one who may just want to help their kid. They just hear, come play with us, your kid is fab at AA/AAA regardless of whether that is true. And they are gone.

A parent driven market hurts. But I think we may in a few years have a market driven by Black Beat. The other extreme is also not good.

15 hours ago, Puck01 said:

With the added exposure through the streaming added this year I think showcasing a game if the week is a great idea. I have noticed this year there is more people coming to the games. Would be great addition to what good things already added.

 

Pick one of the rare 7 PM games and people may cane out to watch. This is a good idea. Wouldn't it be nice to build high school hockey to Minnesota State levels. ?

I hate seeing programs disappear and feel for the Vipers, but continuing to hang on without a home is a huge problem imo, like Aviators. Give it up at some point. The kids will find a home. 

I feel that it should be a requirement that your program has an ADM program in order to compete at Nationals or PAHL playoffs. Having all these programs just take the work of what other organizations are doing just isn't right. It might curb the I am going to spring up my own team over here because I am butt hurt you didn't put my super star on team 1 problem, too.

24 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Completely missing my point, obviously you didn’t look to see how many pa kids are paying out of state tuition to play in an example such as the state of ohio (small example at that). 

I think you missed my point. The Pa schools are EXPENSIVE. Even factoring in our of state tuition, a lot of Ohio schools offer enough in aid to be comparable to or less expensive than Pa schools. Has nothing to do with hockey politics. Maybe you know one family that got shafted. I sincerely doubt it is the wide swath you want to paint.

7 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

It is a known fact Ohio schools are very aggressive in getting PA kids to enroll at their schools and there is tons of money available out there in the form of merit and other types of scholarships.  If your kid has good grades they can be an out of state student at some schools for less than it costs to go in-state to PItt or PSU.  Penn State?  Don’t get me started on them as everyone pays sticker price regardless of GPA and unless your kid is a 5* athlete, the school doesn’t give out merit scholarships to get students to enroll there “because they can.”  Private schools are higher in tuition yet they offer more in the form of scholarships due to the endowments.  Kent, BGU, Miami, OU, Dayton and Akron all have hockey programs at different levels for kids wanting to move away from home to get the “college experience” while still having the opportunity to play hockey at various levels.

This has been our experience exactly.

9 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Saucey, what level did your son play?  How many schools is he looking at? Is he still applying to schools?  Please let us know how this all is going?  Thanks for sharing!

He is a pretty good hockey player with good grades, decent SAT scores, and went to a high school in a good school district. Played both AA travel and AAA high school and was a leader on the teams. He got into most schools he applied to. Good enough hockey player that some of those better ACHA programs were receptive to his overtures.

The college search was a little difficult because I don't think he knew exactly what he wanted in a school. We visited a lot of schools. He applied to A LOT of them, both in and out of state. Colleges make it harder on themselves and the kids by offering free applications, I think. Those fees make you pause a little before applying. I did a lot of check ins with him because he was initially pretty excited to have a coach interested in him, and he wasn't thinking about cost or if the school was a good academic fit.

He committed to a good school. Club hockey may or may not be in his future. The school does have its own rink and intramural hockey, which I didn't even know was a thing, so he can still get hockey if he wants if he doesn't make one of the club teams. That made him happy.

It all just ends at some point. ?‍♂️ But truly, the beauty of hockey is that it doesn't have to end. It is a sport where you can still do it if you want, for as long as you want. It's not the same, but still lots of fun. Coaching, beer league, whatever. 

It's not the end of the world when it ends. Just sad. I am a little sad. ? 

17 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Oh no, they are. Take a look around. This issue is a compound between local politics & parents still wanting to live through their kids to some degree. Miami, Ohio U, Kent just in Ohio alone. There are kids going as far as Colorado. Families paying over 35k a year to go out of state just to play acha hockey. It’s crazy. 
 

I am not saying the coach at Duquesne is a bad guy (like the rmu guy). What I am saying is parent politics are creeping into local acha hockey. It’s happening at every western pa school to a degree, just much stronger at some. 

No offense Danner, but my family is doing this right now, and I still say, not being able to get into the school and the expense are more influential on Western Pa kids leaving the area than not getting on the local club hockey team. We parents compare notes. Pitt is a bigish school with one club team.  Hard to get into the school, hard to get on the team. Duquesne is crazy expensive. Pitt, PSU, RMU...they are expensive imho. RMU was most generous with merit offer for us, but wasn't a good fit for what my kid wanted to study.

To my knowledge, Miami University doesn't recruit for their club teams. Or maybe that was just my kid. ? Ohio, they want you to have some sort of hockey experience outside of youth/high school, even for their club teams, but who knows, maybe if you are good enough you could walk on during try outs. Kent tells you the same thing but they have kids rostered that came straight from high school. Depends on how good the kid is and who came out, I bet. The ACHA is all over the place. Bowling Green has a club team that is coached by the players. It really depends on the school. Adrian College loves their hockey and it is tough as hell to be rostered on their club three team. They recruit. But the school itself is....not so good academically. You have to research and be creative in your research, because it is hard to find information. Everyone's needs are going to be different.

My kid wants to play club. He reached out to coaches of schools he was interested in. Even at the club level, if you want to play, it's a good idea to get on their radar. It's hard to pick a team just based on a tryout, I think. The coaches are all over the place in how they respond. Everything from, cool, come out to a practice and skate with the team, to....here's the dates for our prospect skates...to...see you in August for tryouts. I don't know that this is politics or....life. Kind of like getting a job. Is it crazy to do this for club? Well, yeah. But it happens in youth travel hockey all the time, too.

For anyone interested, once my kid figured out what he wanted to study, we looked for schools known for those programs that have club hockey and went from there. Looked at rosters and Elite Prospects, whatever that website is, to try and see where kids played before getting on the team. It gives you a good idea if your kid has a chance and will fit with the program. Ohio University's rosters are littered with AAA kids and kids that played juniors, for instance. Then if it was a fit, he applied to the school and got in. Then reached out to coaches to gauge interest. And I keep telling my kid....you might not make the team. You might get hurt. You might decide playing is too much. Will you be happy at this school if hockey doesn't happen? Because at the end of the day, it's about getting a job after getting that degree. And no one is giving you money to play club hockey. You either qualify for merit money based on need or scholastics or you are paying.

If you want scholarship money....grades grades grades. High SAT or ACT. Rigorous courses if you want in a popular degree at PSU Main or Pitt. You need those things before even worrying about the club hockey team. 

Oh...and ask when practices are. It's beer league times or 6 am practices now with most club programs. When you try to balance that with studies...I know that was a deal breaker for some kids. 

3 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Since you felt the need to come on here to reply - proves my point even more. It’s like those montour board memebers that showed up here - guilty. I’m sure you are a nice person, im sure 90% of what you said is true but it doesn’t change anything about the politics creeping into the local acha hockey. That’s why many western pa kids are leaving the area and paying out of state tuition (stupid move imo - just don’t play) the players & parents see the same politics they watched go on during 10 years of youth hockey. It’s almost spring, ya better start putting that vengeance money grab together. 

Actually, Danner, I doubt the kids who would play ACHA club hockey are leaving the area specifically to go to another school to play club hockey somewhere else. Pitt, Duquesne and PSU are very expensive to go to and good out of state schools are frequently cheaper. Ohio has so many schools, for instance. Plus Pitt and PSU Main have become super hard to get into. It's actually pretty terrible that a good Pa student with decent SAT scores can expect that it will still be hard to get into the big Pa schools. I would submit that decisions are being made more based on those reasons than wanting to play club hockey at Pitt/Duquesne and not being able to based on politics. That doesn't really make sense, actually.