carroll81

2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I hate that system because it is never used around here until midams. I think the refs take a couple of games to get used to it and actually miss more than the two person system, and it just adds more bodies on the ice to get around.

Not used during the regular season at any youth level?  Not even T1 midgets?

3 hours ago, Icebucket said:

It actually was very good. I know the refs don't like doing the 4 man system, but it did lead to significantly better officiating 

What ref doesn't like the 4 man system?

The east does have a D2 league.  It is meant to be developmental - teams that are trying to build programs or keep programs alive.  Gives the kids a place to play for their school(s).  Some of the teams are mixed schools, some are not.  They are not eligible to play in the Flyers Cup.

https://www.icshl.org/page/show/8023730-d2

There are unpure teams playing in the "regular" leagues (ICSHL and SHSHL).  They play for their regular league championships, but if they want to play in the Flyers Cup, they have to play for the AAA divisions against the likes of Malvern, LaSalle, etc.  Perkiomen Valley did it this year and was beat in the first round by LaSalle.  If they were pure, they would have played AA I believe.

4 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

According to website, last year's costs were:

 

 

8U

8U - ADM: $995*

 

10U

10U Mixed Year: $2,150*

2012 - 2013 Hybrid: $3,400*

 

12U

12U Mixed Year: $2,350*

2012 Birth Year: $3,400*

2011 Birth Year: $3,400*

 

14U

14U Mixed Year 1: $2,800* - Includes 2 weeknight practices

14U Mixed Year: $2,400*

2010 Birth Year: $3,500*

2009 Birth Year: $3,600*

 

16U

16U Mixed Year: $2,550*

2008 Birth Year: $3,650*

16U National Bound: $3,400*

 

18U

18U Mixed Year: $2,550*

18U National Bound: $3,400*

 

So, I don't find it hard to believe prices will go up 500 or so across the board. Seems probably expected. Other orgs will probably go up as well, as things go.

And of course another whatever a set of uniforms cost these days since everyone won't be able to wear their old jerseys probably.

Seems to match up with teams in the AHF on in the East, just under $4000:

https://www.teamphl.org/structure

2 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

he didn't talk to his fellow officials that were closer to the play (he was  at blue line and backside official) and did not communicate with TJ bench. He went and directly threw the player out of  the game. Watch the Video again and assess how dangerous the intent was.....love tap at best after he was clubbed in the back by the Pennridge player (No Penalty)!

The back referee is the exact person to make that call.  That is why they are there.  There is no way the low official could have seen the spear through the crowd.

Again, doesn't matter what the intent was.  USA Hockey is very clear on it.  Any spearing motion is 5+GM at a minimum.

Not exactly sure who that official was, but I am familiar with the process for assigning those officials.  They are all very experienced.

2 hours ago, stickboy said:

If I was a TJ parent/fan/coach/player (which I’m not), I’d be disgruntled about the game misconduct call given to their leading scorer half way through the game.  Refs called it spearing and gave 5 and game for what looked like a love tap after being crosschecked.  Would be interesting to know where the ref is from. 

Just watched it on YouTube.  Absolutely a Spear after the whistle.  Penalty options are 5+GM or Match. 

Out of curiosity and for comparison, I looked at how the Atlantic District handles the dual-rostering:

"(3) Dual Rostering. Players may only appear on a USA Hockey roster with
one Association during the season (August 1 – end of USA Hockey
National Tournament) with the following exceptions:
(a) Junior team as allowed by USA Hockey Affiliated player rule
(b) AAHA recognized scholastic team
(c) AAHA recognized house league
(d) AAHA Affiliate sponsored teams
(e) Female players may appear on a youth and girls roster with the
same or different Associations.
 

(5) Girls Tier I Rostering.
(a) AAHA Tier I and Tier II 14U teams – No underaged players
permitted to play up to 14U.
(b) AAHA Tier I 16U teams – Maximum of two (2) second year 14U
players may play up at 16U. First year players are not permitted to
play up.
(c) AAHA Tier I 19U teams – Unlimited second year 16U players may
play up to 19U. First year players are not permitted to play up.
(d) Tier II USAH girls registered teams at 16U and 19U will not be
subject to restrictions on the number of players playing up in age
classification, however, it is recommended that they play within their
age group. Affiliate ADM policies, rules and regulations supersedes
this rule.
 

BB uses their Krach system to schedule the AHF.  I have worked a half dozen of their games in the last couple of weeks.  All but one was a running clock (5 goal differential).  In half of them the running clock started near the beginning of the second period.  So, not sure that system is any better at matching teams.

For any system to work, you need lots of data spread across the entirety of the group you are trying to rank.  That's why the MHR ranking gets better as the season goes on.  The points made about teams playing only within their area/pod definitely hurts the accuracy of the system.

On 8/3/2023 at 8:55 PM, dazedandconfused said:

Uggghhh, that means no other schools can even talk to him I think. So many of these early commits end up not coming to fruition. I hope that's not the case in this one.

No, that is not right.  Nothing is in stone until a letter of intent is signed and these days even those are dubious. 

If you verbal early, other schools may not want to talk to you.  IT is also not unusual for a student to make a verbal, hoping that will stir some interest.

4 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

Holy FFFFFFF!!!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiX_J-Z4cD_AhWYFVkFHbokD40QFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pihoref.com%2F&usg=AOvVaw2v2afHujVskw5af2Rg3P6y

They scrubbed their entire website. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist (not true, I live for it) but doesn't that seem to send up a bunch of red flags?

For all the organizations which have been left with their $%^& in their hand, wouldn't they be able to file a suit against them for breach of contract? Because they made sure that it was cost-prohibitive for the organizations to get out of the contract.

Could that be why they scrubbed it?

f you really want to access it (the beauty of the Internet archive):

https://web.archive.org/web/20230202020740/https://www.pihoref.com/

9 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

If you believe that this will get better in time....... here's one that will change that opinion.

 

I can confirm that 8U parents(nutjobs) are declining 8U placements. 8U....... declining placements

 

That's............................. 8U ............................... declining................................. their placement

Yeah, but PAHL and BB are the problems...  Nope, parents are the problem and BB is filling their needs.

6 hours ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Do any public schools play in AAA these days?
 

Actually, Perk Valley played in the AAA Flyers Cup this year because they were not pure but were strong enough to compete (i.e. they had 2  players from another school district that did not have a team).  I don't think they played any AAA teams during the regular season.

The other thing to note is that teams here in the East are not in leagues broken down by AAA/AA/A, at least in the Inter-County.  For the most part they are broken into conferences that are based on their PIAA leagues, regardless of school size.  For example, ChesMont is the West Chester schools, the Downingtown schools, Unionville and Avon Grove.  Some of those schools are A and some are AA.  They play each other, as well as non-conference games.  Then they get placed for Flyers Cup based on their AA or A size.

18 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

Shouldn’t the eastern part of the state be basically open class based on that?

Put another way...

AAA is open boundary schools (i.e. private and parochial schools where students do not have to live in a specific area to attend)

AA and A are public schools districts where you have to live in the school district and attend the public school.  The split between AA and A is based on male student enrollment, just like the PIAA uses. 

You can follow it directly at the following link:

https://www.flyers-cup.org/

On 2/21/2023 at 4:19 PM, PeterThePuck said:

If this was PIAA wouldn’t be allowed 

Don’t know the rules but kid coming in and billet for Hockey play your club not allowed to play High School.

In state of Minnesota where high school hockey is king they are strict about zip codes with jumping in and out to play.

 

 

Peter, took a quick look at PIAA.  If this kid was a freshman, it looks like he would be eligible.  It is a bit murky, because it doesn't specify that the middle/junior high needs to be within district, but doesn't rule that out.  It's considered a Natural Break Transfer:

"Promotion from a junior high/middle school to a senior high school is considered a Transfer between schools. A student, who has made a Natural Break Transfer and who has not previously participated on a different senior high school Team in any sport, is presumptively eligible immediately for interscholastic athletics."

I realize this is not a PIAA sport, but if this were to go before a judge I would think he/she would consider how the PIAA would look at this.

My wager:

Judge says, why didn't you catch this sooner.  You let him play 10 games and they thought he was eligible.  Those games are good. He's now ineligible, so he can no longer play.  Team move on without him.

Hypothetical:

Let's say that this did not get brought up now and Montour went all the way through to states.  When the East reviews the rosters and finds the kid ineligible, they bring it up, kid is ruled ineligible.  Would the team still be allowed to play?  I have a feeling they would.  Maybe PA Hockey can shed some light on what would happen here or what has happened in the past in this situation.

11 hours ago, ChiefKeef said:

I can only speak from memory.  Unfortunately the hornets info does not exist online anymore. If it ever did?  That’s pretty common knowledge, their successes,   I’m sure you know that.  Or you can use the Pens player advancement site,  where a lot of the names were players who were mostly developed by the hornets.  The pens just happened to take over in there last year or two. 
 

Not sure what your angle is.  I’ll tell you mine though.  PPE sucks at development and I posted all the resources you need in this thread. 
 

I know the old hornets convo always brings out the old heads who may have not liked them.  Tale as old as time on this board.  You can’t deny their results.  Undoubtedly they had bullshit going on within,  every program does.  There’s a lot of goofy shit that happens everywhere.  The program I’m alluding to is far beyond general hockey ‘bullshit’,   unfortunately. 

I have not been around enough to have any of that "common knowledge", that is why I asked.  Just looking for points of comparison.

12 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Junior hockey,  scholarships,  pro hockey , everything in between.  That was over a decade ago now,  and that pace of progress hasn’t been seen since. 

Any numbers to match up to the numbers you posted for PPE?

30 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

I think a lot of us care about that group exploiting and taking advantage of local families.  So we can run it back as often as we need to to inform the uneducated. Informing with data straight from their website.  Pittsburgh had a good thing with the hornets.  We would like that format back.  That format is responsible for all the posters on the wall of hometown stories at the UPMC rink.  Or the posters that PPE would like you to believe had a shred of anything to do with them. 

 

It’s wild how when the hornets were the program__Locals were getting opportunity after opportunity in masses.  PPE shows up and all the sudden there’s way less local kids making the jump.  Why were the hornets absurdly successful with kids moving on?  Then that pace just…. stopped…. when they were taken over?  What happened?  

What were the opportunity after opportunities that you are comparing to, so we have some frame of reference.

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Very interesting in 18U.  The lower the  division the less FPP .  AA 82% of games get FPP , A Major 73% and A Minor down to 64%.  So the higher the level of play the less penalties per game!  Are FPP unique to PAHL?  Does anyone know the history of the FPP?

Interesting, but it doesn't surprise me.   The skill level goes down at each level so their ability to make proper plays goes down.  Leads to more penalties.

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/standings/

So....... 12U B and 10U B are traveling from say Ashburn to Long Island on a Saturday for a 2 game set?

And we ridicule our local selves for our level of insanity?

How is this helping and who is it benefitting? Other than the obvious.

They play a "local" schedule (NOVA/Philly region) and also a few showcases.  There is travel for the showcases, which are 4 game weekend trips.

I find it silly, but that seems to be what the people want.

The feedback I am getting from some parents I know are that it is still a lot of travel and too many games.  The DVHL teams used to actually have less travel, even though they had to make an occasional trip to Wilkes-Barre or York.  But, those teams that supplemented DVHL with EJ showcases have about the same travel as they had before.

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Isn't there a relationship between Esmark and Black Bear now?  I couldn't find anything on their website. Came across this! 

Black Bear Sports Group, Inc., owns and/or manages 26 hockey clubs ranging from Tier II (B, A, AA) and Tier I (AAA) to Juniors.  

I guess they don't own or manage Esmark yet.  I would think their best bet to own and manage a Tier II program in SWPA might be out of Rostraver.  Maybe they will start their own. Does anyone know how they acquired or purchased the 26 they have now.

Pretty straight forward.  They are a hedge-fund backed organization that buys rinks.  Once they own the rink they will absorb the teams/organizations that play there.  Now that they have some critical mass, they started their own league.  The league started out as just supplemental showcases to the existing local leagues.  Now the league has a full regular season, in addition to the showcases.  They have also lured organizations from other rinks that they do not own to join the league.  The biggest difference between them and other leagues:  money and having paid personnel running things.

1 hour ago, Wes said:

If this is "100% true" I am hopeful that BB will make some BADLY needed short term repairs...

Nothing but best wishes for Jim.  He deserves a nice relaxing retirement.  He's worked so hard on this place for many years.

My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink.  Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season.  Maybe next year. 

21 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

3 Misconducts?? At the same time?

Is it possible that someone with a whistle got carried away?

As far as the conduct, it's never going to change. It's been consistent for 50 years.... handed down through generations.

It adds up really quickly now, just following the unsportsmanlike penalty ladder:

2 minute - roughing

2 minute - unsportsmanlike

10 minute - unsportsmanlike

Game Misconduct (10 minutes - unsportsmanlike)

Game Misconduct (10 minutes - 4 penalties in a game)

All from one instance of not being able to handle your mouth after a penalty.  But, the teenage adrenaline gets flowing, discipline goes out the window,  and this is what can happen.  Zero tolerance is a bitch.

On 8/27/2022 at 5:59 AM, Pa Hockey said:

Buy  the book and see the top 50 in Pennsylvania State History  www.pahockey.net

Here's the list

http://pahockey.pahockey.net/organizations/4098/pages/166996

Top 50 Players who left their mark in High School Hockey via the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships

    With 45 Years of History of the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships, as discussed there have been many great teams coached by very influential and terrific coaches. The championships have yielded some great performances and it’s the players who take the ice are the ones who decide the destiny of Champions.

      In our exclusive list of the Top 50 who left their mark on the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships, we have players who have won Multiple Titles and Players who have provided Overtime Heroics or Hat Tricks or had a dominant performance who have salted their legacy in the Finals. Then we have players, who continued the careers in NCAA Hockey or Professionally as a confirmation of greatness and our fortune to have been able to enjoy their continued development in High School Hockey.

       Please keep in mind that this list is exclusive to the Pennsylvania High School Championships and to be included the players team had to have participated in the Pennsylvania Finals. I want to be honest that I had plenty of help and this list will be debated as to who may be number 51 and was not included, but I will tell you that each and every player who made the cut deserved it and should be commended.

      So it did not matter the school size or what level ….this list is a special group of Pennsylvania Champions spanning 45 years and if you dream for a moment would it not be great to see a great from the 1970’s challenged by a player from 1990’s or a goaltending great from 1980’s play against a stud forward from the 2000’s. That’s what makes this list of the Top 50 Pennsylvania Player special as All of these players contributed to the lore of the Pennsylvania Championships and I would like to congratulate them all!

Multiple Year State Champions ~ Players that won several state championships and led their teams offensively or defensively to the State Title 

• Jerry DiStefano led Monsignor Bonner to 3 consecutive Pennsylvania Finals in 1991, 1992 and 1993 and a State Championship in 1991 before moving on to Merrimack
• Germantown Academy would reach the finals in 1991, 1993 and 1994 led by Rob Shaner who moved on to play at ACHA Power Penn State
• Meadville was a dominant team in the 1990’s and led by Scott Phillis and Ryan Smart, who won four and three consecutive Pennsylvania Titles, respectively. Smart moved on to play at Cornell and was drafted in the NHL. 
• Bishop McCort’s Brett Houston (3) and Kris Carlson (4) were the offensive leaders on the Crushers  run from 1994 through 1997 as the two players combined for multiple point games in ALL four State Finals.
• Bethel Park’s Justin Glock won three consecutive State Championships from 2000-2002 and registered a hat trick in 2000 and the Overtime game winner in 2002

Multiple Year State Champions ~ Players that won several state championships and led their teams offensively or defensively to the State Title 

• John Brennan led Radnor to the State Finals in 2002 and was a dominant player in the final scoring once and setting up two others and younger brother Chris Brennan led the Raiders to three consecutive Finals winning in 2003 and 2004.
• Bayard Rustin’s run of six straight Pennsylvania Titles produced three significant four time winners in Goaltender Jason Grande  and Matt Owens. Owens had a pair of hat tricks in 2016 and 2019 and an overtime game winner in 2017. Grande won all four years in between the pipes yielding just 4 goals in four years.
• Downingtown East’s Luca Pisani was a two time State Champion and 3-time Finalist led the Cougars to championships in 2017 and 2018 

Overtime Heroics ~ Players that won state championships in overtime

• Baldwin’s Jim Cox wins it in overtime in 1975 over Churchill
• Abington’s Captain Dennis Garvin provides GWG in OT over Gateway
• West Chester’s Doug Bowman scores with 4 seconds to defeat Baldwin
• Conwell Egan’s Brian Tetley scores in 3^rd overtime to defeat Meadville
• Bayard Rustin’s Matt Owens wins 4^th straight in overtime beating Franklin Regional

Brick walls are Defensive and Goaltending Standouts who won it with defense

• Converted Forward Wes Waldschmidt leads North Allegheny in a stellar defensive effort over LaSalle in 2007. The Explorers would go to win in 2008 and 2009
• Bayard Rustin stonewalls Mars in the 2009 Pennsylvania Final led by Eric Knodel
• Bayard Rustin’s Jason Grande won all four years from 2014 to 2017 yielding just 4 goals in four games.

Hat Tricks in the State Championship

• In the 1983 and 1984 Pennsylvania Finals, Canevin’s Greg Timmons registered Hat Tricks
• Chartiers Valley’s Tim Tracy notched four goals in the 1986 Final against Archbishop Wood
• Roman Bussetti scored the hat trick to help Council Rock in its first State Title in 1991 against Armstrong
• In the 1993 and 1994 Pennsylvania Finals, Greensburg CC’s Jeff Adams score four times to lead the Centaurians to State Titles
• Quaker Valley standout Furman South scored four times in the 2006 Final to unseat 2005 champs Penncrest before moving on to NCAA Robert Morris and the NHL as a Referee
• North Allegheny Senior Joe Griffin scored four times to help the Tigers defeat defending champs LaSalle in the 2013 State Final

The following are ~ Players that won the state championship and moved on to play Division 1 NCAA Hockey

• John Liprando led Gateway to the 1976 Pa State Final and registered a hat trick before moving on to Denver University
• After winning the Pa Title in 1980, USC Defensive Stalwart Bobby Kennedy went on to play at Bowling Green and in AHL before coaching Bethel Park in 1997 and Pine Richland in 2007 to Titles
• Scott Chamness  scored Four hat tricks in four games to lead Archbishop Carroll to the Flyers Cup in 1980 and Pennsylvania Title in 1981 for this St Lawrence University player
• Malvern Prep’s Keith Grimley led Malvern Prep to their 1st State Title with a hat trick in 1990 and moved on to play at the University of Connecticut
• Keith Stanich was a terrific Defenseman who led Bethel Park to their first state title in 1997 before moving on to NCAA Wayne State
• Seton LaSalle’s Lou Garritan was a 50 Goal Scorer who led Rebels to State Title in 1998 and forged an NCAA Career at Bemedji State University

• Malvern Prep’s Chris Lawrence was the leading scorer on the Flyers Cup Champion went on to play Michigan State and in a National Championship
• Matt Clackson would win the Pennsylvania Title twice in 2002 and 2003 and move on to play in the NCAA at Western Michigan
• The leading scorer for Holy Ghost Prep unfortunately ran into Peters Twp in the 2003 Final and Ryan Gunderson moved on to play at Vermont and represent USA in the Olympics
• Rob Madore led Peters to Penguins Cups in 2004 and 2005 and the State Title in 2005 before heading to NCAA Vermont
• Although Germantown Academy fell short of the State Finals in the 2006 Flyers Cup Final, Brian O'Neill was a dominant player who excelled at Yale and moved on to play in the Olympics
• 2006 capped an undefeated season for Mt Lebanon and State Championship for  future OHL Standout Tyler Murovich  
• As a Freshman, Colin South scored twice to lead Quaker Valley to the 2006 State Title before moving on to NCAA Robert Morris

•  

• Billy Latta scored the hat trick in the State Final to give West Chester Henderson a State Title in 2007 and would move on to play at the University of Connecticut
• Adam Berkle led a high powered LaSalle Explorer attack to a statement win over two time champions Pine Richland in 2008 and moved on to play at Bowling Green
• Brian Christie was the leading scorer on Bayard Rustin, who led the Knights to their first State Title and then move on to the Merrimack 
• Ricky DeRosa led the Cardinal O’Hara Lions to 2010 Final and was the key component in the overtime victory before moving on to play at Penn State
• Nick Master was  3-time State Finalist led the LaSalle Explorers to championships in 2012 and moved on to play at University of Massachusetts - Lowell  and Andrew Romano  was a 4-time State Finalist led the LaSalle Explorers to championships in 2012 and moved on to play at University of Massachusetts - Lowell  
• Dalton Hunter scored twice to lead Latrobe to their 4th Pennsylvania Title in 2013 and then moved on to NCAA Mercyhurst

The following are ~ Players that won the state championship and moved on to play in the National Hockey League 

• Germantown Academy would win their first state title in 1983 and Mike Ritcher would move on to University of Wisconsin and the New York Rangers and a Stanley Cup in 1994
• Hat Trick in the 2000 State Final would a precursor for this 3-Time State Champ and a future in the National Hockey League for John Zeiler
• 2002 would be the only State Title for this future Notre Dame and Toronto Maple Leafs standout  Christian Hanson 
• 2006 capped an undefeated season for Mt Lebanon and State Championship for future NHLer Matt Bartkowski with Boston and Calgary
• Brandon Saad did not have a memorable State Final in 2008 for Pine Richland as a Freshman but rebounded to play in the OHL and NHL with Chicago winning the Stanley Cup twice.

Scott Chamness graduated in 1980.   He was not on the State Championship team in 1981.