carroll81

30 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

I think a lot of us care about that group exploiting and taking advantage of local families.  So we can run it back as often as we need to to inform the uneducated. Informing with data straight from their website.  Pittsburgh had a good thing with the hornets.  We would like that format back.  That format is responsible for all the posters on the wall of hometown stories at the UPMC rink.  Or the posters that PPE would like you to believe had a shred of anything to do with them. 

 

It’s wild how when the hornets were the program__Locals were getting opportunity after opportunity in masses.  PPE shows up and all the sudden there’s way less local kids making the jump.  Why were the hornets absurdly successful with kids moving on?  Then that pace just…. stopped…. when they were taken over?  What happened?  

What were the opportunity after opportunities that you are comparing to, so we have some frame of reference.

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Very interesting in 18U.  The lower the  division the less FPP .  AA 82% of games get FPP , A Major 73% and A Minor down to 64%.  So the higher the level of play the less penalties per game!  Are FPP unique to PAHL?  Does anyone know the history of the FPP?

Interesting, but it doesn't surprise me.   The skill level goes down at each level so their ability to make proper plays goes down.  Leads to more penalties.

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/standings/

So....... 12U B and 10U B are traveling from say Ashburn to Long Island on a Saturday for a 2 game set?

And we ridicule our local selves for our level of insanity?

How is this helping and who is it benefitting? Other than the obvious.

They play a "local" schedule (NOVA/Philly region) and also a few showcases.  There is travel for the showcases, which are 4 game weekend trips.

I find it silly, but that seems to be what the people want.

The feedback I am getting from some parents I know are that it is still a lot of travel and too many games.  The DVHL teams used to actually have less travel, even though they had to make an occasional trip to Wilkes-Barre or York.  But, those teams that supplemented DVHL with EJ showcases have about the same travel as they had before.

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Isn't there a relationship between Esmark and Black Bear now?  I couldn't find anything on their website. Came across this! 

Black Bear Sports Group, Inc., owns and/or manages 26 hockey clubs ranging from Tier II (B, A, AA) and Tier I (AAA) to Juniors.  

I guess they don't own or manage Esmark yet.  I would think their best bet to own and manage a Tier II program in SWPA might be out of Rostraver.  Maybe they will start their own. Does anyone know how they acquired or purchased the 26 they have now.

Pretty straight forward.  They are a hedge-fund backed organization that buys rinks.  Once they own the rink they will absorb the teams/organizations that play there.  Now that they have some critical mass, they started their own league.  The league started out as just supplemental showcases to the existing local leagues.  Now the league has a full regular season, in addition to the showcases.  They have also lured organizations from other rinks that they do not own to join the league.  The biggest difference between them and other leagues:  money and having paid personnel running things.

1 hour ago, Wes said:

If this is "100% true" I am hopeful that BB will make some BADLY needed short term repairs...

Nothing but best wishes for Jim.  He deserves a nice relaxing retirement.  He's worked so hard on this place for many years.

My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink.  Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season.  Maybe next year. 

21 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

3 Misconducts?? At the same time?

Is it possible that someone with a whistle got carried away?

As far as the conduct, it's never going to change. It's been consistent for 50 years.... handed down through generations.

It adds up really quickly now, just following the unsportsmanlike penalty ladder:

2 minute - roughing

2 minute - unsportsmanlike

10 minute - unsportsmanlike

Game Misconduct (10 minutes - unsportsmanlike)

Game Misconduct (10 minutes - 4 penalties in a game)

All from one instance of not being able to handle your mouth after a penalty.  But, the teenage adrenaline gets flowing, discipline goes out the window,  and this is what can happen.  Zero tolerance is a bitch.

On 8/27/2022 at 5:59 AM, Pa Hockey said:

Buy  the book and see the top 50 in Pennsylvania State History  www.pahockey.net

Here's the list

http://pahockey.pahockey.net/organizations/4098/pages/166996

Top 50 Players who left their mark in High School Hockey via the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships

    With 45 Years of History of the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships, as discussed there have been many great teams coached by very influential and terrific coaches. The championships have yielded some great performances and it’s the players who take the ice are the ones who decide the destiny of Champions.

      In our exclusive list of the Top 50 who left their mark on the Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships, we have players who have won Multiple Titles and Players who have provided Overtime Heroics or Hat Tricks or had a dominant performance who have salted their legacy in the Finals. Then we have players, who continued the careers in NCAA Hockey or Professionally as a confirmation of greatness and our fortune to have been able to enjoy their continued development in High School Hockey.

       Please keep in mind that this list is exclusive to the Pennsylvania High School Championships and to be included the players team had to have participated in the Pennsylvania Finals. I want to be honest that I had plenty of help and this list will be debated as to who may be number 51 and was not included, but I will tell you that each and every player who made the cut deserved it and should be commended.

      So it did not matter the school size or what level ….this list is a special group of Pennsylvania Champions spanning 45 years and if you dream for a moment would it not be great to see a great from the 1970’s challenged by a player from 1990’s or a goaltending great from 1980’s play against a stud forward from the 2000’s. That’s what makes this list of the Top 50 Pennsylvania Player special as All of these players contributed to the lore of the Pennsylvania Championships and I would like to congratulate them all!

Multiple Year State Champions ~ Players that won several state championships and led their teams offensively or defensively to the State Title 

• Jerry DiStefano led Monsignor Bonner to 3 consecutive Pennsylvania Finals in 1991, 1992 and 1993 and a State Championship in 1991 before moving on to Merrimack
• Germantown Academy would reach the finals in 1991, 1993 and 1994 led by Rob Shaner who moved on to play at ACHA Power Penn State
• Meadville was a dominant team in the 1990’s and led by Scott Phillis and Ryan Smart, who won four and three consecutive Pennsylvania Titles, respectively. Smart moved on to play at Cornell and was drafted in the NHL. 
• Bishop McCort’s Brett Houston (3) and Kris Carlson (4) were the offensive leaders on the Crushers  run from 1994 through 1997 as the two players combined for multiple point games in ALL four State Finals.
• Bethel Park’s Justin Glock won three consecutive State Championships from 2000-2002 and registered a hat trick in 2000 and the Overtime game winner in 2002

Multiple Year State Champions ~ Players that won several state championships and led their teams offensively or defensively to the State Title 

• John Brennan led Radnor to the State Finals in 2002 and was a dominant player in the final scoring once and setting up two others and younger brother Chris Brennan led the Raiders to three consecutive Finals winning in 2003 and 2004.
• Bayard Rustin’s run of six straight Pennsylvania Titles produced three significant four time winners in Goaltender Jason Grande  and Matt Owens. Owens had a pair of hat tricks in 2016 and 2019 and an overtime game winner in 2017. Grande won all four years in between the pipes yielding just 4 goals in four years.
• Downingtown East’s Luca Pisani was a two time State Champion and 3-time Finalist led the Cougars to championships in 2017 and 2018 

Overtime Heroics ~ Players that won state championships in overtime

• Baldwin’s Jim Cox wins it in overtime in 1975 over Churchill
• Abington’s Captain Dennis Garvin provides GWG in OT over Gateway
• West Chester’s Doug Bowman scores with 4 seconds to defeat Baldwin
• Conwell Egan’s Brian Tetley scores in 3^rd overtime to defeat Meadville
• Bayard Rustin’s Matt Owens wins 4^th straight in overtime beating Franklin Regional

Brick walls are Defensive and Goaltending Standouts who won it with defense

• Converted Forward Wes Waldschmidt leads North Allegheny in a stellar defensive effort over LaSalle in 2007. The Explorers would go to win in 2008 and 2009
• Bayard Rustin stonewalls Mars in the 2009 Pennsylvania Final led by Eric Knodel
• Bayard Rustin’s Jason Grande won all four years from 2014 to 2017 yielding just 4 goals in four games.

Hat Tricks in the State Championship

• In the 1983 and 1984 Pennsylvania Finals, Canevin’s Greg Timmons registered Hat Tricks
• Chartiers Valley’s Tim Tracy notched four goals in the 1986 Final against Archbishop Wood
• Roman Bussetti scored the hat trick to help Council Rock in its first State Title in 1991 against Armstrong
• In the 1993 and 1994 Pennsylvania Finals, Greensburg CC’s Jeff Adams score four times to lead the Centaurians to State Titles
• Quaker Valley standout Furman South scored four times in the 2006 Final to unseat 2005 champs Penncrest before moving on to NCAA Robert Morris and the NHL as a Referee
• North Allegheny Senior Joe Griffin scored four times to help the Tigers defeat defending champs LaSalle in the 2013 State Final

The following are ~ Players that won the state championship and moved on to play Division 1 NCAA Hockey

• John Liprando led Gateway to the 1976 Pa State Final and registered a hat trick before moving on to Denver University
• After winning the Pa Title in 1980, USC Defensive Stalwart Bobby Kennedy went on to play at Bowling Green and in AHL before coaching Bethel Park in 1997 and Pine Richland in 2007 to Titles
• Scott Chamness  scored Four hat tricks in four games to lead Archbishop Carroll to the Flyers Cup in 1980 and Pennsylvania Title in 1981 for this St Lawrence University player
• Malvern Prep’s Keith Grimley led Malvern Prep to their 1st State Title with a hat trick in 1990 and moved on to play at the University of Connecticut
• Keith Stanich was a terrific Defenseman who led Bethel Park to their first state title in 1997 before moving on to NCAA Wayne State
• Seton LaSalle’s Lou Garritan was a 50 Goal Scorer who led Rebels to State Title in 1998 and forged an NCAA Career at Bemedji State University

• Malvern Prep’s Chris Lawrence was the leading scorer on the Flyers Cup Champion went on to play Michigan State and in a National Championship
• Matt Clackson would win the Pennsylvania Title twice in 2002 and 2003 and move on to play in the NCAA at Western Michigan
• The leading scorer for Holy Ghost Prep unfortunately ran into Peters Twp in the 2003 Final and Ryan Gunderson moved on to play at Vermont and represent USA in the Olympics
• Rob Madore led Peters to Penguins Cups in 2004 and 2005 and the State Title in 2005 before heading to NCAA Vermont
• Although Germantown Academy fell short of the State Finals in the 2006 Flyers Cup Final, Brian O'Neill was a dominant player who excelled at Yale and moved on to play in the Olympics
• 2006 capped an undefeated season for Mt Lebanon and State Championship for  future OHL Standout Tyler Murovich  
• As a Freshman, Colin South scored twice to lead Quaker Valley to the 2006 State Title before moving on to NCAA Robert Morris

•  

• Billy Latta scored the hat trick in the State Final to give West Chester Henderson a State Title in 2007 and would move on to play at the University of Connecticut
• Adam Berkle led a high powered LaSalle Explorer attack to a statement win over two time champions Pine Richland in 2008 and moved on to play at Bowling Green
• Brian Christie was the leading scorer on Bayard Rustin, who led the Knights to their first State Title and then move on to the Merrimack 
• Ricky DeRosa led the Cardinal O’Hara Lions to 2010 Final and was the key component in the overtime victory before moving on to play at Penn State
• Nick Master was  3-time State Finalist led the LaSalle Explorers to championships in 2012 and moved on to play at University of Massachusetts - Lowell  and Andrew Romano  was a 4-time State Finalist led the LaSalle Explorers to championships in 2012 and moved on to play at University of Massachusetts - Lowell  
• Dalton Hunter scored twice to lead Latrobe to their 4th Pennsylvania Title in 2013 and then moved on to NCAA Mercyhurst

The following are ~ Players that won the state championship and moved on to play in the National Hockey League 

• Germantown Academy would win their first state title in 1983 and Mike Ritcher would move on to University of Wisconsin and the New York Rangers and a Stanley Cup in 1994
• Hat Trick in the 2000 State Final would a precursor for this 3-Time State Champ and a future in the National Hockey League for John Zeiler
• 2002 would be the only State Title for this future Notre Dame and Toronto Maple Leafs standout  Christian Hanson 
• 2006 capped an undefeated season for Mt Lebanon and State Championship for future NHLer Matt Bartkowski with Boston and Calgary
• Brandon Saad did not have a memorable State Final in 2008 for Pine Richland as a Freshman but rebounded to play in the OHL and NHL with Chicago winning the Stanley Cup twice.

Scott Chamness graduated in 1980.   He was not on the State Championship team in 1981.

2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

I'm with you then.  Nobody used to recruit squirts.  There were no "elite" 10 year olds.  Most of the time you played for the organization at whatever rink was closest.  If there were several rinks close by, you played with the team with mostly kids from your school.  Funny... probably had just about the same percentage of kids moving on to "higher" levels of hockey back then too.

20 minutes ago, miked said:

which begs the question, how do these out of state rinks run tournaments with NO EMTs on site? even if they can legally squirm out of responsibility, as a rink owner, I wouldn't want anyone dying.

There are no EMT's on site at any hockey games in Eastern PA.  JR's, high schools and some older T1 club teams have Athletic Trainers.

All the rinks have multiple AEDs available.  They are designed to be used by anyone.

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

That's brutal. Did the departures happen all at once or a little over time?

It was not all at once, more like dominoes.  I think that most of those teams played AHF last year.  Last year AHF acted as a supplemental league, as a replacement to the teams also playing in the EJ.  So, they all played regular season DVHL and some showcase+ games in the AHF.

The full season league was announced and a few teams were part of the announcement or announced shortly after.  I think Team Philly was one of the first.  The league then made presentations to the clubs they were targeting and those clubs slowly announced their decision.  The "smaller" clubs were a surprise to me - Haverford and Wissahickon.

Should be an interesting season.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

@carroll81 what if any impact has there been to DVHL?

Pretty significant hit, about half the organizations:

Delaware Ducks
Grundy Senators
Haverford Hawks
Lancaster Firebirds
LV Phantoms
Philadelphia BLazers
Palmyra Black Knights
Team Philadelphia
Valley Forge Colonials
WBS Jr Knights
Wissahickon Skating Club
York Devils

Maybe it will rejuvenate the DVHL.  Maybe all the teams will be back in the DVHL is a year or two.  Who knows.

3 hours ago, forbin said:

I have said this before but I don’t see how BB being in the area is a bad thing at all. With the AHF offering a half season option, I could see many PAHL teams taking advantage of this. Say you take a 10U AA PAHL team and get your 6 preseason games, 14 regular season, 4 ODSET, add in AHF half season and that’s another 16 games spread out over 4 weekend trips to Philly/NJ, throw in a local tournament and a travel one somewhere else for another 8-10 games, maybe 4-6 independently scheduled games and you’ve got yourself a good season of around 50-55 total games with a good variety if opponents and decent amount of travel. 
 

I don’t see BB offering an AHF West division until they get more clubs on board here and that can’t be done without buying more rinks because that’s the whole thing about the AHF is that they make their own rules and schedules and it’s all done so by one group of centralized people, not by the rink. I have heard strong rumors that BB is looking at Alpha, which would make total sense as BB are now partners with the USPHL. 
 

Just wait a few more years until Black Bear buys UPMC and everyone’s head will explode. 

I don't know enough about rink owners in the West.  But there are quite a few teams in the AHF that are not owned by BB or play in a BB rink.  Team Philadelphia and VF Minutemen are privately owned by rink owners.  Haverford Hawks plays in a municipal rink.  Wissahickon's rink is owned by a skating club I believe. 

I could be sooner than you think.

Here in the East, AHF will be in their first full season of league play.  There is still a bunch of stuff not released yet, most important is the path to Nationals.  But, they did their seeding already, their schedules are out, their website is up to date, they have a plan to rebalance divisions during the season if really needed.  All the things that "the parents" seem to perennially complain about.

Funny thing though, it is still the same players as were playing in the DVHL and NJYHL. 

Will keep you updated on how it is going!

My guess is Commotio Cordis.   I am more familiar with it from Lacrosse and Baseball than hockey.  The impact from the puck causes an irregular heartbeat.  The only intervention is immediate defibrillation with an AED.

Agree with Nemesis... make sure you are using current hockey gear.  The latest shoulder pads have an added guard over the heart area to prevent such an injury.

Also, can't hurt to notice where AED's are in rinks that you go to.

This is old news.

On 6/10/2022 at 10:40 PM, nemesis8679 said:

Hockey is way more convoluted than any other major sport. 

It really isn't.  It just follows a path unlike other traditional sports.  It has evolved recently to include more prep and NCAA vs. junior, but if you know the path it is pretty straight forward. 

1 minute ago, Saucey said:

I can classify, too. The problem is feeling forced into paying more in time and money AND having to spend time with crazy parents for the same level of hockey we were just playing. Because many are not aware like you are that they are playing a certain level. They bought the salespitch. 

I get it.  Serenity now!

46 minutes ago, Saucey said:

You are very confusing hence why someone said you are trolling.

It's getting harder to advise people because the hockey landscape is changing very quickly. The level of play is decreasing in PAHL every year as people play these other things. For me, I too turn down the faux AAA option because there is no way that my family needs more. But my kids are older. When they were coming up, playing A major their first year in a level was perfectly fine for their development. But now...that has changed just in the last few years as even A Major and lower go to play independent.

If I had a young child... maybe we wouldn't play at all, quite frankly. I think at the younger levels it is still good hockey and so your choice right now is likely fine. Just keep an eye on his fun level, the crazy level of the parents and whether he gets better. Don't worry about having him evaluated and blah blah. Just those things and you will be fine. 

I am burnt out on the crazy in youth sports. I am tired of even basically good people getting so wound up in it that they lose sight of the kids. So my comments come from negativity because I am tired of experiencing negativity. Tired of the crazy. Try really hard to remember this is just a game and they are just kids.

I should change my handle to letsjustplaypuck.

Here's how I manage the insanity now:  Who cares what division or league it is.  It is still the same kids and still the same level of talent.  It just gets moved around and called something different (for whatever reason). 

But, if you pay attention, you can figure out which teams should be at whatever you want to call the levels in your head.  I like classifying them as AAA (with birthyear), AA (typically second year at the age group), and A (typically first year at an age group or athletic kids that are new to hockey).  Everything else is in-house in my mind.  I can usually place a team in my matrix in my mind after watching a period or so. 

Then, when I watch, I can set my expectations accordingly going forward.  No need to worry what they call themselves or how much they are paying.  Walking into the rink with the proper expectation makes it much more enjoyable.

17 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Fortunately the NHL is more popular than ever.

I like the no icing. Less slapping, more passing.

I also like pushing the automatic offsides up to the very oldest age groups. It's fun watching a bantam or midget team that is really good with regroups and puck possession. I don't think it slows down the game and I do think it makes it less choppy, unless it's a very low level team that can't figure it out.

I'm guessing that those who are adamantly opposed to the automatic offsides may also still rock a Joffa helmet and Koho stick. They were also probably against the removal of the two line passing rule in the early 2000s.

Agreed!

I'll add that it's fun to watch high school and prep teams that regroup and possess rather than just fire it back in, even though then can.

31 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Good on him for getting out. I'm all for increasing numbers and I guess I'm still uncertain what is the correct age to introduce hitting. All that being said, The $$$ amount that is spent on the top 10% players should not be 90% and the amount spent on "the other 90%" should not be 10%.

Agreed.  I wonder how they compare to all the other NGO's in the US.  Maybe something I will research while watching golf this weekend.

37 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Thus, the reason he quit years back. He’s far from a hypocrite. He knew what was going on, moved on with life. This is the guy that told me when checking was moved to Bantam it was a pure money decision. Usa hockey enrollments drop when the hitting starts.   

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

4 hours ago, RegDunlop7 said:

I'm curious about the CHF as well. MYHockey dropped the ACHA rankings from its site and replaced them with CHF rankings. Not sure why. Probably some sort of paid partnership between MYHockey and the CHF.

I heard last year that the CHF was formed by some of the ACHA D2 and D3 teams because they felt those levels were not properly represented or respected by the ACHA leadership (mostly D1 teams?).  I saw some of the CHF playoffs at Iceline.  Some pretty good hockey.

15 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

And Montour, 297. How do you justify that? Your argument holds no water. There are NINE schools with higher enrollment numbers than Montour playing below them. Some of them have almost twice the enrollment of Montour. The system is jacked up no matter how you look at it. At the very least both sides of the state should be using the exact same criteria for placement. 

 you didn’t address the fact that if you win two state championships in the west, you are absolutely getting moved up in classification. But you can win seven in a row in the East and you can  still remain in the smallest classification. If you can’t see that, you are ignoring simple facts. 
 

nothing you have said can explain that what happens in the East and West are totally different. 
 

please explain to me how this is fair. With examples, like I provided to show how unfair the current system is. 

I don't know why the West does it the way they do.  They do it different than any other sport in the state. 

You will never get moved in the East, unless your enrollment changes.  It is very subjective. 

For teams that struggle to compete at their level or need to combine program to be able to field a team, there is a D2 division (at least in the ICSHL).  Those teams are not eligible for Flyers Cup.

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

They also do not move teams up and down like we do in the west. If you go undefeated in the west chances are you are going to get moved up in class. That doesn’t happen in the East. Look at the 7 straight state championships by Bayard Rustin. They would have been moved up after their second championship in the west. It is a real shame that the East and West do things so differently. 
 

And Bayard Rustin is not a small school by anyones standards, so I don’t know how they were ever a single A team. 

Using the PIAA Lacrosse classifications as reference (closest I could find for 2 divisions).  The have AA and AAA.  The cutoff between the divisions seemed to be 490.

West Chester Rustin: 469

West Chester East: 453

For reference:

Moon Area: 458

Peters Township: 452

https://phillylacrosse.com/2022/piaa-releases-boys-classification-enrollments-by-division-for-2023-2024-seasons/

31 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, how good is this West Chester East team?  Could they beat Peters Twp?  Why are they playing A?

PA Hockey has been telling everyone for weeks that they can beat anyone and are perhaps the best team in the state this year.  I believe the beat Malvern during the regular season.

They are playing A because that is the size of their school.  Hockey in the East is done like all other sports in the state.  You are placed in divisions for Flyers Cup based on school size.  A is small schools.  AA is large schools.  AAA is schools with no-boundary.  During the season you play in your league, which may include a mix of A,AA and AAA.  For Flyers Cup you play only teams in your size.