carroll81

2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

I'm with you then.  Nobody used to recruit squirts.  There were no "elite" 10 year olds.  Most of the time you played for the organization at whatever rink was closest.  If there were several rinks close by, you played with the team with mostly kids from your school.  Funny... probably had just about the same percentage of kids moving on to "higher" levels of hockey back then too.

20 minutes ago, miked said:

which begs the question, how do these out of state rinks run tournaments with NO EMTs on site? even if they can legally squirm out of responsibility, as a rink owner, I wouldn't want anyone dying.

There are no EMT's on site at any hockey games in Eastern PA.  JR's, high schools and some older T1 club teams have Athletic Trainers.

All the rinks have multiple AEDs available.  They are designed to be used by anyone.

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

That's brutal. Did the departures happen all at once or a little over time?

It was not all at once, more like dominoes.  I think that most of those teams played AHF last year.  Last year AHF acted as a supplemental league, as a replacement to the teams also playing in the EJ.  So, they all played regular season DVHL and some showcase+ games in the AHF.

The full season league was announced and a few teams were part of the announcement or announced shortly after.  I think Team Philly was one of the first.  The league then made presentations to the clubs they were targeting and those clubs slowly announced their decision.  The "smaller" clubs were a surprise to me - Haverford and Wissahickon.

Should be an interesting season.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

@carroll81 what if any impact has there been to DVHL?

Pretty significant hit, about half the organizations:

Delaware Ducks
Grundy Senators
Haverford Hawks
Lancaster Firebirds
LV Phantoms
Philadelphia BLazers
Palmyra Black Knights
Team Philadelphia
Valley Forge Colonials
WBS Jr Knights
Wissahickon Skating Club
York Devils

Maybe it will rejuvenate the DVHL.  Maybe all the teams will be back in the DVHL is a year or two.  Who knows.

3 hours ago, forbin said:

I have said this before but I don’t see how BB being in the area is a bad thing at all. With the AHF offering a half season option, I could see many PAHL teams taking advantage of this. Say you take a 10U AA PAHL team and get your 6 preseason games, 14 regular season, 4 ODSET, add in AHF half season and that’s another 16 games spread out over 4 weekend trips to Philly/NJ, throw in a local tournament and a travel one somewhere else for another 8-10 games, maybe 4-6 independently scheduled games and you’ve got yourself a good season of around 50-55 total games with a good variety if opponents and decent amount of travel. 
 

I don’t see BB offering an AHF West division until they get more clubs on board here and that can’t be done without buying more rinks because that’s the whole thing about the AHF is that they make their own rules and schedules and it’s all done so by one group of centralized people, not by the rink. I have heard strong rumors that BB is looking at Alpha, which would make total sense as BB are now partners with the USPHL. 
 

Just wait a few more years until Black Bear buys UPMC and everyone’s head will explode. 

I don't know enough about rink owners in the West.  But there are quite a few teams in the AHF that are not owned by BB or play in a BB rink.  Team Philadelphia and VF Minutemen are privately owned by rink owners.  Haverford Hawks plays in a municipal rink.  Wissahickon's rink is owned by a skating club I believe. 

I could be sooner than you think.

Here in the East, AHF will be in their first full season of league play.  There is still a bunch of stuff not released yet, most important is the path to Nationals.  But, they did their seeding already, their schedules are out, their website is up to date, they have a plan to rebalance divisions during the season if really needed.  All the things that "the parents" seem to perennially complain about.

Funny thing though, it is still the same players as were playing in the DVHL and NJYHL. 

Will keep you updated on how it is going!

My guess is Commotio Cordis.   I am more familiar with it from Lacrosse and Baseball than hockey.  The impact from the puck causes an irregular heartbeat.  The only intervention is immediate defibrillation with an AED.

Agree with Nemesis... make sure you are using current hockey gear.  The latest shoulder pads have an added guard over the heart area to prevent such an injury.

Also, can't hurt to notice where AED's are in rinks that you go to.

This is old news.

On 6/10/2022 at 10:40 PM, nemesis8679 said:

Hockey is way more convoluted than any other major sport. 

It really isn't.  It just follows a path unlike other traditional sports.  It has evolved recently to include more prep and NCAA vs. junior, but if you know the path it is pretty straight forward. 

1 minute ago, Saucey said:

I can classify, too. The problem is feeling forced into paying more in time and money AND having to spend time with crazy parents for the same level of hockey we were just playing. Because many are not aware like you are that they are playing a certain level. They bought the salespitch. 

I get it.  Serenity now!

46 minutes ago, Saucey said:

You are very confusing hence why someone said you are trolling.

It's getting harder to advise people because the hockey landscape is changing very quickly. The level of play is decreasing in PAHL every year as people play these other things. For me, I too turn down the faux AAA option because there is no way that my family needs more. But my kids are older. When they were coming up, playing A major their first year in a level was perfectly fine for their development. But now...that has changed just in the last few years as even A Major and lower go to play independent.

If I had a young child... maybe we wouldn't play at all, quite frankly. I think at the younger levels it is still good hockey and so your choice right now is likely fine. Just keep an eye on his fun level, the crazy level of the parents and whether he gets better. Don't worry about having him evaluated and blah blah. Just those things and you will be fine. 

I am burnt out on the crazy in youth sports. I am tired of even basically good people getting so wound up in it that they lose sight of the kids. So my comments come from negativity because I am tired of experiencing negativity. Tired of the crazy. Try really hard to remember this is just a game and they are just kids.

I should change my handle to letsjustplaypuck.

Here's how I manage the insanity now:  Who cares what division or league it is.  It is still the same kids and still the same level of talent.  It just gets moved around and called something different (for whatever reason). 

But, if you pay attention, you can figure out which teams should be at whatever you want to call the levels in your head.  I like classifying them as AAA (with birthyear), AA (typically second year at the age group), and A (typically first year at an age group or athletic kids that are new to hockey).  Everything else is in-house in my mind.  I can usually place a team in my matrix in my mind after watching a period or so. 

Then, when I watch, I can set my expectations accordingly going forward.  No need to worry what they call themselves or how much they are paying.  Walking into the rink with the proper expectation makes it much more enjoyable.

17 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Fortunately the NHL is more popular than ever.

I like the no icing. Less slapping, more passing.

I also like pushing the automatic offsides up to the very oldest age groups. It's fun watching a bantam or midget team that is really good with regroups and puck possession. I don't think it slows down the game and I do think it makes it less choppy, unless it's a very low level team that can't figure it out.

I'm guessing that those who are adamantly opposed to the automatic offsides may also still rock a Joffa helmet and Koho stick. They were also probably against the removal of the two line passing rule in the early 2000s.

Agreed!

I'll add that it's fun to watch high school and prep teams that regroup and possess rather than just fire it back in, even though then can.

31 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Good on him for getting out. I'm all for increasing numbers and I guess I'm still uncertain what is the correct age to introduce hitting. All that being said, The $$$ amount that is spent on the top 10% players should not be 90% and the amount spent on "the other 90%" should not be 10%.

Agreed.  I wonder how they compare to all the other NGO's in the US.  Maybe something I will research while watching golf this weekend.

37 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Thus, the reason he quit years back. He’s far from a hypocrite. He knew what was going on, moved on with life. This is the guy that told me when checking was moved to Bantam it was a pure money decision. Usa hockey enrollments drop when the hitting starts.   

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

4 hours ago, RegDunlop7 said:

I'm curious about the CHF as well. MYHockey dropped the ACHA rankings from its site and replaced them with CHF rankings. Not sure why. Probably some sort of paid partnership between MYHockey and the CHF.

I heard last year that the CHF was formed by some of the ACHA D2 and D3 teams because they felt those levels were not properly represented or respected by the ACHA leadership (mostly D1 teams?).  I saw some of the CHF playoffs at Iceline.  Some pretty good hockey.

15 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

And Montour, 297. How do you justify that? Your argument holds no water. There are NINE schools with higher enrollment numbers than Montour playing below them. Some of them have almost twice the enrollment of Montour. The system is jacked up no matter how you look at it. At the very least both sides of the state should be using the exact same criteria for placement. 

 you didn’t address the fact that if you win two state championships in the west, you are absolutely getting moved up in classification. But you can win seven in a row in the East and you can  still remain in the smallest classification. If you can’t see that, you are ignoring simple facts. 
 

nothing you have said can explain that what happens in the East and West are totally different. 
 

please explain to me how this is fair. With examples, like I provided to show how unfair the current system is. 

I don't know why the West does it the way they do.  They do it different than any other sport in the state. 

You will never get moved in the East, unless your enrollment changes.  It is very subjective. 

For teams that struggle to compete at their level or need to combine program to be able to field a team, there is a D2 division (at least in the ICSHL).  Those teams are not eligible for Flyers Cup.

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

They also do not move teams up and down like we do in the west. If you go undefeated in the west chances are you are going to get moved up in class. That doesn’t happen in the East. Look at the 7 straight state championships by Bayard Rustin. They would have been moved up after their second championship in the west. It is a real shame that the East and West do things so differently. 
 

And Bayard Rustin is not a small school by anyones standards, so I don’t know how they were ever a single A team. 

Using the PIAA Lacrosse classifications as reference (closest I could find for 2 divisions).  The have AA and AAA.  The cutoff between the divisions seemed to be 490.

West Chester Rustin: 469

West Chester East: 453

For reference:

Moon Area: 458

Peters Township: 452

https://phillylacrosse.com/2022/piaa-releases-boys-classification-enrollments-by-division-for-2023-2024-seasons/

31 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, how good is this West Chester East team?  Could they beat Peters Twp?  Why are they playing A?

PA Hockey has been telling everyone for weeks that they can beat anyone and are perhaps the best team in the state this year.  I believe the beat Malvern during the regular season.

They are playing A because that is the size of their school.  Hockey in the East is done like all other sports in the state.  You are placed in divisions for Flyers Cup based on school size.  A is small schools.  AA is large schools.  AAA is schools with no-boundary.  During the season you play in your league, which may include a mix of A,AA and AAA.  For Flyers Cup you play only teams in your size.

If you are planning on coming to the games, buy our tickets online NOW!  All the Flyers Cup games sold out quickly. 

https://www.flyers-cup.org/boxoffice

All games will also be streamed on YouTube for free

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_aKxra9hZbYJ0_2bIdmviA

18 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

This is common sense and why would that matter? Great Post !!

It's pretty simple

            Schools with Multiple JV and MS Programs (60 + Players ) AAA - These programs are loaded with numbers and should be AAA

            Schools with JV + MS (40 - 60 Players) AA - 

            Schools with 40 Players or Less VAR - MS A - Usuallly lots of 9 and 10th graders forced to play Varsity due to NO JV

            Co Op for multiple school programs B

This is just the base factor and IS close to where we are now through the competitive formula. It is working well so far and Norwin  and McDowell should be in A until they build up numbers. 

All of these are fine programs at different stages of development and should be celebrated regardless as these students achieve a lifetime goal - Congrats to all!

 

No other PA High School sport does it like this.  They are all done by student population.  They do not try to "balance" the competition at the league level.  The teams can use their non-league games to play easier or harder competition.  During the regular season, teams play outside their level, even in league play.  Come playoff time, they play schools that are the same size.

13 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Interesting. Lots of games in the regular season schedule.

Is it just a matter of time before South Pgh, North Hills, and Allegheny are in this league? Doesn't Black Bear own Printscape, Pittsburgh Ice, and Palmer?

Looking at their 12U AA division on MHR, it's definitely larger and more competitive than PAHL 12U AA.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/division_info.php?y=2021&d=23

Also interesting that they specifically mention that they have an unbalanced schedule to maximize competition and minimize driving times.

I would think that they will build something similar out in your area.  They have some rinks in Ohio also:

https://www.blackbearsportsgroup.com/arenas.html

3 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

I apologize and need to make something right. 

Earlier I suggested that the team will play most of its games in Detroit and Buffalo. 

I am mistaken. 

When you sign up for Black Bear, you will play most of your games in New Jersey.

https://tier1hockeyfederation.com/usphl-collab/

You should probably get an EZ Pass @27adams , you're about to get to know the PA turnpike very well!

Here is the Black Bear plan for next season.  Lots of teams leaving the DVHL to play in the league

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/ahf-2022-2023/

Why?

1. They promise to balance the schedules

2. They promise more ice time and better ice slots

3. They have full time staff, so web/stats/standings are updated

4. No stay to play

If they can perform those things, they hit a lot of the items that parents complain about, from the Dads who want only competitive games to the goalie Moms who want the SOG and GA to be updated in real time.  It will be an interesting year.

2 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Yes, MS and JV have an end of season single-elimination tournament that is regarded as a season ending playoff. 

Yes, there is a playoff system in other sports.  Most schools in Southwest PA roll up into a league called WPIAL (https://www.wpial.org/).  There are WPIAL playoffs which then feed into PIAA district playoffs.

Jack, does WPIAL have JV and/or MS playoffs?  It doesn't look like it from the website.  There is no JV playoffs in District 1 (Central, ChesMont, PAC10).  Hockey seems to be the outlier.

8 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

I took it as rolling lines.

I'll caveat and qualify my original opinion: in PIHL MS and JV, winning starts to matter, based on my observations of my school district's teams and competing school districts' teams over the last decade as both a PIHL coach and PIHL parent. 

I guess my school has never played your school but school hockey is taken very seriously where I'm from.

Curious, are there playoffs for JV and MS in the West?  What about other (PIAA) sports?

In the East, there are JV and MS playoffs in hockey, though they call them "Showcases".  No other scholastic sport has playoffs at any level other than Varsity.

10 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

This is the absolute truth in the whole situation.  You would think after the bad publicity from the Armstrong incident people would stop and think before acting stupid!