BeaverFalls

This is a hockey board. People are upset that they can’t play regular hockey games, while many of us have seen or actively participated in other events, of near similar “risk” each way go on without problems. 
 

So when people voice these complaints, the justification shifts to, what can’t you do in your life crybaby etc. 

Let’s start with hockey, where some of us spend a great deal of our time whether it be in an official or unofficial capacity, as a hobby, as a player, as a spectator, as an opportunity to teach and grow the game, etc:

1. Numerous summer camps cancelled

2.  Current practices limited numerical participation. 

3. Vast uncertainty whether there will even be a season at any level. 

4.  The stress of trying to prepare for that as an organization, coach, player, parent etc.

5.  Being offered a weak solution to comply with mandates. 

6.  Cancellation of numerous tournaments that were solid family time. 

7.  Incongruity between what’s allowed and not allowed eg Walmart with 100s of people inside vs an ice arena based on arbitrary numbers. 
 

8.  The potential serious impacts financially of arenas, organizations and instructors. 

9.  The lack of all involved to be able to participate in what they enjoy at whatever level they play at. 
 

10.  Another lost season for players getting close to the end of their playing days. 
 

11.  The lack of foresight, double-standards, and cavalier attitude by those who established these policies. 
 

Just a few things to mention. Not everything is quantifiable by what can you do and can’t you do in two columns.  Personally I could care less if I ever set foot in a barroom again less interact with the general public. 
 

Just because hockey isn’t an important part of your life, doesn’t mean it isn’t for others. 

59 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

So true. That's probably why the restaurants got dinged with the harsher restrictions a couple months ago. Most were complying, but the few rebels ruined it for everyone.

 

 

That’s the thing I don’t agree with. Mass punishment. If you have a rebellious rink or restaurant, shut them down. Don’t hammer the ones doing the right thing. 

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Does anyone know if Alpha is still having their Tournament this weekend? 08 to 11 AAA teams. If they are it would be interesting to see what format they are using for play.

No live Barn at Alpha so no parents or spectators would be a real bummer.

From their website they are requesting only one parent per player for their general rules. 
 

I had thought I had seen on a flyer they were going to be full roster games but can’t find that right now. Was not USA hockey sanctioned from my understanding but must’ve gotten insurance elsewhere. 

49 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

What was the ratio I specified?

I know that there are too many of your type that are sweating the small stuff because you haven't had true hardship. I enjoy hearing about how to solve these hockey problems, but I have things in perspective enough to realize that there is not some conspiracy in place to oppress people involved in sports.

True hardship?  Don’t try to lecture me on true hardship. Just because you’ve never gotten out of your bubble doesn’t mean some of us haven’t done things that would only make you piss and shit yourself in fear. I’m sorry covid is your breaking point, you weak pathetic soul. 

1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said:

My world isn't shut down. Almost everything is open. Life is just a little different now. There is really nothing that I can't do now that I could do before. It's just a matter of being a little careful for the good of all civilization. What Covid-related hardships are you having right now? The people that are out of work or have a failing business are suffering. Others are just being big babies about making some minor adjustments to their lives.

Your ratio of big babies to people suffering is way way off, which i would expect nothing less coming from you. 
 

4 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I would say we should just remind them that people are just leaving the state to play hockey, which seemingly is more dangerous than just playing it here, but who knows Wolf might try to ban that as well.

The only thing these people care about is staying in office. Remind them you’re a voter who has a lot of friends and family that you’ll make sure will not vote for them. 

11 minutes ago, Seejay784 said:

I still haven't seen an official statement on MidAms website. I get so many conflicting stories I can't keep them straight. Is the 25 thing just in Allegheny or statewide?  We've been playing indoor sports all summer outside of ice hockey, and there have been wayyyy more than a few hundred people attending, including a big tournament coming up this weekend. Everyone follows CDC guidelines regarding masks and social distancing so nobody thought anything of it. 

I did call and speak to my State Rep who originally was against changing the indoor limit, but when I explained that his beloved high school alma mater may lose their hockey program over this, he is changing his tune. He didn't realize the economic impact to the rinks and to the organizations themselves.

Mid-Am updates their website once every couple years, whether it needs it or not. Really pathetic imho. 

23 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

A lot will depend on how well the virus is controlled thru Football and Soccer seasons. Although I think the best shot is the passage of the proposed bill by 2/3rds vote.

It’s going to be too late by then I’m afraid. It takes a lot to get the wheels churning for a season. I hope not. 

5 minutes ago, PowerPlay said:

Timing is interesting here......  There are some magic dates?   

Today is 8/26...

• 8/31/2020   ---  All Player and Coaching 2019-20 USAH memberships expire.  ( I have been asked multiple times from the multiple orgs I am in, to update my USAH # in the last week)  I assume these registrars are being pressured by USAH.  My thinking is that they want everyone to pay their USAH fees so USAH can continue to operate at current profit / revenue levels.
• 9/1    ---  PIHL wants response from all teams 9/1.   No time for teams to have board/parent meetings.   Then they need rosters by 9/15.  
• 9/1    ---  Pennsylvania House Bill 2787 is scheduled to be voted on September 1, 2020.  This Bill has the potential to alleviate the 25 person restriction for indoor sports by putting the power of determination within the school districts (“School Entity”).  In addition – with the current bipartisan support – it has the potential to pass with a 2/3rds vote that would invalidate a Veto by the Governor.  As it stands right now with current sponsors of the Bill, there would only need to be another eighteen (18) members of the House needed to reach the 2/3rds majority needed (136 out of 203).  The PA Senate will need 34 out of 50 to vote for it to be VETO PROOF.
• 11/3    --- Presidential Election  (regardless of result.... new term doesn't start until mid - January 2021
• 1/1/2021   --- This is when most restrictions and guidelines are set to expire  ???  Does the Virus go away??  

Basically, I don't envy the position of the PIHL or PAHL or the decisions they make, but they are making these decisions for the betterment of their leagues' board members?  not their members (Teams & SChools).  We will all continue to pay our players' tuition and continue to pay rinks to practice for games that may never happen and games that aren't real hockey.  The PIHL and PAHL are supposed to work for its members, the orgs, not the rinks....   PIHL /  PAHL are just trying to protect themselves from litigation.

IF all varsity is suspended until Jan.  All PIHL teams should immediately stop practicing and buying ice until Dec.   Rink owners would be forced to close or ask for govt assistance and may have a better voice in allowing restrictions to be lifted.  If we all keep paying,,,, they can keep dictating what we do.

 

Most of us will because we know there is a kid on a lower team or underclassman that will take our kids' spot in heartbeat and we will then be forced to tell our kids that they can't play because Mom and Dad took a stand.

I’m not taking a stand. I’d rather him play drop in and take lessons for $2k than travel 3 hours to play a few shifts.

28 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

That's totally false. I contend that the majority of kids will be happy playing with restrictions (4 vs 4, 9 skaters, etc...) if we stay positive and not try to convince them that their government refuses to let them have fun. I am not saying we shouldn't strive to reach another, more fun, solution that health officials/government will permit. I am just tired of the minimizing of this crisis and whining about sacrifices. Then the political, talk radio BS gets thrown in so everyone can feast on the red meat. 

I can tolerate the 4v4.  It’s playing one 16 minute half that is ridiculous.  Even if ice time was perfectly divided and no penalty kill, you’re looking at maybe 6-8 minutes per game playing time. 
 

That might be ok if your driving to your local rink to play a game or a 4th liner clinging to a spot on a tier I or tier II team. But for the rest of people who’s kids aren’t playing on those levels, it’s a tough to justify going from Erie to Altoona or Morgantown to State College etc. 

Kids aren’t going to want to do that. Parents certainly aren’t going to want to do that. 

Just now, Quinlan2020 said:

Just the opposite. I have been saying that it can work, but the freedom fighters will get in the way of any resolution unless they get close to 100% of what they want.

How Comrade?  I’ve seen a lot of your posts and you’ve come up with very little substantive ideas as to how it will work.  Almost all of it has been ridiculing other people’s ideas, desires and frustrations with a policy developed with arbitrary numbers that won’t be shared with the public. 

5 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I don't whine about any fears. I just make the case that you're simplified view of the situation is not reality. Everyone has different levels of fear and the decisions were talking about affect the masses. People need to work toward a solution for a problem that hasn't been seen by any living generations.

Interesting comments from someone who has a reason for why everything won’t work. 

1 hour ago, forbin said:

It still doesn't make sense as to why its 25 indoor and 250 outdoor. Those numbers just seem completely arbitrary to me. Let's just throw some shit at the wall and see what sticks. When you have a neighboring state like Ohio where the number of cases and deaths are very close to the numbers here, and yet their indoor limit is 300 it just makes you really think...

Change it to 50, or better yet 100 and we all shut up and get back to hockey talk. Some will be happy (the majority of this board) and some will complain and want to stay home and that's completely their choice to do so.

The problem, much like the 6’ rule, is these are arbitrary numbers.  If someone could publish a legitimate study on why 25 if the tipping point, then I’d be more willing to accept it. Unfortunately, when pressed, the decision makers refuse to share “granular” data on any of these decisions.  What else are people left to do other than speculate there is something being hidden. 

58 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

The Wolf bashing is red meat for this forum but it won't actually get anything done. I want a fair solution to this. People like you that get out there with the King Wolf/dictator stuff will only hurt the cause. It just creates more division and makes you sound like a big baby.

Is it really bashing if it’s deserved?

4 minutes ago, miked said:

what nobody is mentioning is that this limited roster turns the ice surface into a significantly more dangerous place. you expect the kids to make sure they close the penalty box door properly when their time is up? that one coach on the bench is going to remember to remind the kids to check the latch after every line change? hey Johnny just broke his neck when he got knocked through the Penalty Box door, but at least he didn't get COVID-19!!!!!

and let's not forget that it tells half the team to stay in an enclosed space for at least 30 minutes waiting to to take the ice. isn't the entire thing we're trying to avoid to slow the spread of ANY virus is enclosed spaces for long periods of time? 

it's all optics and not safety. but hey, we;re too dumb to know what's best for our kids and ourselves so we're clearly too dumb to see through this master stroke of planning, don't thing, don't question, we made a plan, you are safe. shhh!!!

 

eff it, let's just give the kids chainsaws and have exploding pucks and land mines on the ice!!!

lol

Mutant League Hockey

1 hour ago, forbin said:

I guess I am struggling to understand where the arbitrary 25 person limit even came from? Isn't it 300 indoor and 1500 outdoor in Ohio?

Just step back and think about this for a second. If the limit for indoor sports in PA was even 40 people none of us would have anything to bitch about because it would essentially be business as "usual". 

https://youtu.be/4H-6HTKNgV0

What’s the basis for this question? 

33 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

PIHL - varsity postponed, there may be clarity tomorrow. I suspect they will wait to see what PIAA does about basketball. (  I am taking a guess with this, will they ride on the back of PIAA) When does varsity basketball start ?  They could be postponing hoping the 25 limit gets lifted soon. Regardless current word is postponed. 

I think they were shaken by the pahl talk of limited rosters for games. They’ll wait it out but unless something changes in the next two months I’m betting they will fold tents on this season. 

27 minutes ago, Cowbell said:

Organizations have random drug testing policies in place for all coaches/ assistant coaches, right?

Or does that fall under the USA Hockey umbrella?  I recall seeing something on SafeSport when I was poking around about testing of athletes suspected of drug use, but my question is more along the lines of random testing for coaches, like a pre-employment drug test or random testing from time to time for some professions involved with public safety.  

Just curious.  

Ive never heard of it on the local level happening. 

2 hours ago, 4thlinerefugee said:

We are an Arctic Foxes family and what you are saying about aligning with more restrictive plans of some the rinks/ PAHL teams does not align with what I have heard from leadership in the org.  Additionally someone suggest that Foxes would toe the line. Let me tell you, there is no line to toe. Just like every other rink owned by a large organization, RMU and Dave Hanson make the decisions based on risk and their risk mitigation strategy. As such every other org at the at rink must abide by them. That goes for Foxes, PIHL, In house adult leagues, inline everyone.  Don't believe me look at what has been happening up at Penn State and Pegula very similar if not even more restrictive. Rinks that belong to a larger entity must protect the larger entity. Unlike smaller private rinks they can withstand the financial losses.

Pegula is as aggressively restrictive as I’ve seen in all of the local landscape. 

1 hour ago, Lifelongbender said:

You know, as silly as this restriction is... If we could have 27 people per sheet of ice, we'd have enough space for ten skaters and a goalie, or two full lines of offence and two full lines of defense.

Or we could just do what literally everyone wants to do and play hockey normally.

As for letting parents into the rink - I hate to tell some of you this, but many, or even most, players are much better when you aren't there yelling at them and the refs all the time. It's better for most players NOT to have the parents in there. That's to the extent that they players are even aware that people are in the arena. For the most part they aren't paying any mind to the stands.

In case of many psycho parents living vicariously through their kids, yes. 

1 minute ago, hockeyisgreat said:

It does absolutely nothing.   And when did NP decide to enforce this 25 rule?  I watched summer games for 12U with more than 25 kids and parents in the stands.  

Plus the logistics/planning and execution nightmare for families and organizations.  And add in 1/3 of the roster wants released for a variety of reasons. 
 

Not my idea but I know of people already working on heading elsewhere from PAHL. 

19 minutes ago, forbin said:

I would absolutely think the risk of exposure would be MUCH higher for basketball. Tons of skin to skin contact, all touching the same ball with their bare hands etc...

Skin on skin. Hawaiian style!