Ihearthockey

4 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

NP has always been one of the more transparent organizations with regards to their program / details.  

https://www.wildcatshockey.net/page/show/6437168-frequently-asked-questions

The question is, do they actually follow through?  I don't know, just asking the question.  I do know that's been a problem at other organizations that publish similar documents.  

8 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

I agree with this. But Preds and SHAHA have rinks that are 10 minutes from each other so they are competing with each other for the same kids and they STILL are outperforming Esmark. It's wild.

Lebo too correct?  Aren't they all within spitting distance?

6 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Sounds like you are the spokes person for Esmark.  Not too sure about how well they develope kids at the younger ages.  They started praying on the Pens black kids when Pens decided to do away with their older #2 teams.  Those teams were good for a year or so and seem to fade.  The older birth years at Esmark (Midget)  tend to be better as they get the older players that are tired of Pens (not the Pens #2 players) plus the imports.  

 

SHAHA and Preds have an advantage as I believe there are a lot more ice hockey players in that area.  Esmark, SHAHA, Preds AAA teams look better in the rankings because they play higher ranked teams.  If they all played in PAHL they would most likely drop in the ranking and hey, isn't the ranking the most important thing about youth hockey!! ( That's sarcasm).   Gotta work the system.  Just play really high ranked teams and hang in there so you go up the ladder!!

Think what you want big guy, I did a little bit of homework to support the subject of the thread and I had value to add to the thread since I'm good friends with a parent of a kid in the PW program.  That's how these message board things work if you didn't know.  

Just for the heck of it, I wanted to see trending on MHR for the Esmark PW teams.  Esmark 11s certainly has a packed schedule and it looks like they played some high level teams this year (Mercer, Illinois, Regals SCTA, Little Caps) and have not performed very well against them.  They have some solid wins but also perhaps some bad losses.  Looks like they were in Detroit this past weekend and had a pretty respectable showing against teams well above them in MHR and then beat up a weak Compuware team, which you should if you want to be in the discussion.  They only lost to the eventual bracket champion from Canada by 2 goals.   Another thing to note is that this team is 20 games in and have yet to play a home game.  That's a lot of travel that I'm guessing impacts the ability to play well at that age, especially early in the year and especially for what I'm guessing are mostly first year "AAA" players.  But maybe not.  They have a 10 game homestand starting this weekend so we'll see if travel matters.  

The Esmark 10s with a similar story, and they actually won their bracket this past weekend.  It's not the Elite bracket but the AA/AAA bracket but still a solid result nonetheless.  

Again, I'd say let's see how these teams stack up after a couple more months to see if the development story holds up.  

18 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Parents will drive their kids an extra 15-20 minutes for a better coaching / development experience if that is what other programs are offering.  

I think it's this.  A buddy of mine's kid plays in the PW program at Esmark and he acknowledges that even though the team isn't even in the same zip code as the Pens, that his kid is getting tons of ice time and off ice work and education and they added another 20 minutes to their commute this year.  And the team has steadily improved since game 1 which is really what I think it's about at this level.  Looking at the coaching staff at the PW level, you have a couple really established and well respected names there it seems (at least from what I know).  I'm sure somebody will have something to complain about them though.  I know that some of those other programs listed above get one of maybe two ice slots per week and limited off ice workouts and education and even though they're better (now), they aren't developing according to what I've heard from parents in those organizations.  

So I guess to sum up my observations so far at least at the PW level, Esmark underperforming but families are happy with development.  Others are performing slightly better but parents are not happy with the value they are getting for their money.  I'll be interested to see how these stack up on Jan 1.  I think we'll see then if my observations are correct as they may be completely way off base. 

Edit to add that I also believe that the location has a major impact here.  That drive does suck for anybody that isn't East of the city.  I'm not sure what the tryout turnouts were like but if they were sparse, that tells me location is a major factor.  

I can't believe there's even a discussion about these rankings after the first release.  Let's revisit these in about 8 weeks.  

Crosby Malkin

Rebellion 07s are already listed as part of AHF on MHR I believe. As well as with PAHL.

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Are the tryouts over now?  How much more player movement happens before the season starts?

 

Alot

51 minutes ago, Wes said:

I'd be VERY interested in it, but not at $3m...  that rink probably needs $500k of renovations immediately to try and get it to relatively decent standards.

1) new locker rooms

2) new bathrooms.  ** bathrooms on both sides**

3) actual stands or seats, not wooden benches

3a) heaters over the stands

4) proper ventilation system (so that you don't choke each time the zamboni runs) and so that there isn't fog in there.  Or perhaps a battery powered zamboni and improved de-humidifiers...

5) overhaul of both ends of the building

6) free wifi

7) livebarn

 

8. A new zamboni driver

3 hours ago, muckerandgrinder said:

Is there any truth to the rumor that Esmark ‘11 is cold calling people who did not make Vengeance and Preds 2011 teams to fill out their roster and added a bunch of AA players?
 

Aren't most kids on these "AAA" teams AA players at one point? PW minor is still young enough where it's not crazy to think that some AA PAHL kids can make these teams.  Just my opinion.

Wasn't PPE basically telling all kids/parents in the program that they are going to start importing players and "thanks for playing"?

This doesn't surprise me.  

Seems like the BY11 group is getting alot of attention?  Is there something I don't know about this group?

Icemen have created a AA/AAA Indep BY11 team now, as well as Esmark.  Vengeance has been going a couple years in that program.

Preds have an Independent team. 

Now breaking the mold, NP is putting together its first BY team ever in this age group.

Is this a big group with enough talent to spread around?

7 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

More importantly why would 2011s want an invite?  

Touche

How the heck do 2011s get an invite only?  I suspect PPE black and PV kids all got invites?  That's pretty much all that's out there no?  Small list I suppose.  

1 hour ago, Carl Racki said:

The problem is the parents.  Some want to brag about their kid on his AAA team. Others just don't know any better and  think it is AAA team  as that is what the coaches or organization try to sell them on.   They think it is a higher level.  Again, these teams may even have some AAA players but not enough for a team.  It is ego driven.  PAHL takes the remaining best 8 teams.  When you have 7 independent teams the remaining teams in that  PAHL AA division will be crap.  They are actually an A major black division.

  Look at the 2010 Aviators as an example.  I believe a lot of them played on the North Pitt AA squirt team last year.  A few people on that team told me how they dominated PAHL and we're a AAA team.  I thought wow that's pretty good let me check MHR.  I believe they finished 3rd in that PAHL division and did not win the championship in squirt AA.  This year they are the 2010 Aviators and went independent.  They played peewee AA and got beat up.  I also believe SHAHA and the Preds are already independent at the 2010 BY.  Same ridiculous trend different birth year.  

I have tried to explain it over the years to people/parents with young players.  Usually I am just wasting my breath.  I have already beat this to death.  Sorry

Wasn't the Aviators team created to keep the team together?  Meaning, if NP would have committed to keeping those BY10s together, would they still be at NP playing in PAHL?  Or am I being naive?

What would be the recommendation for a team that truly wants to stay together (as much as possible) but the organization just doesn't believe in BY teams?

On 10/30/2021 at 10:38 PM, aaaahockey said:

You should keep this up and do everything 2012 and up to u18 for those of us not lucky enough to have one (or more) "AAA" players who care about PAHL

10 - Aviators

11 - North Pittsburgh

12 - Predators

If I'm reading MHR correctly

10 minutes ago, 3 Boys said:

Agree, Ohio Prospects are not strong at all.  The 07 Vengeance team would have been better playing Tier 2 this year.  The kids would probably have had a much better time and a chance at Tier II Nationals.  They will never qualify for Tier I Mid-Am playoffs this year.

No disagreement there.  I think I said in another thread that these are all new kids on this team playing with each other for the first time, getting their first taste to this level of hockey.  Their goal should be to improve throughout the year and end the year as a better team than when they started, but expectations should be tempered.  

Two shutouts for the Vengeance this weekend.  Granted against a low tier AAA team.  But maybe that poach has value.   More likely...too early to tell.  

5 hours ago, Corsi said:

Does anyone know the last time a team successfully appealed and was moved up a division?  Also, is there any history with teams appealing to move down?

A 10u team in A minor protested up successfully to A major last year.  They finished in the upper half of their division.  

Agreed, offsides is ridiculous. 

Just now, Pucks11 said:

That came off a little aggressive,  didn't mean for it to. 

That's what AAA threads do.  I like the banter as long as people don't get all butt hurt and take it personally.  

35 minutes ago, Big_Clapper21 said:

Does anyone else besides me think that the AAA scene is a money grab?

PPE is the only true AAA Team in my opinion. 
 

imagine if these teams ( icemen, vengeance, Esmark) competed more locally. There would be some great hockey games. Teams are driving 5+ hours away to be AAA. Just parents chasing status in my opinion. PPE isn’t getting kids to the next level, so I can’t imagine a chain smoking guy who barely speaks English out of New Ken is going to do it either.  Just trying to get the conversation rolling again.

Those other three should list themselves as AA/AAA programs.  They will play teams from both pots.  And some of the AAA teams they play will be low tier AAA from other states.  And some of the AA teams they play could probably beat a good bit of AAA in the country.  While the money grab and status thing is real, I'd also say that if an A major kid gets an invite to one of these programs, like a poster earlier in this thread pointed out, I'd say it's less about status and more about taking advantage of what was probably considered a low probability opportunity (with a little status sprinkled on top).

IMO

46 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Spoken like a parent of of the families that left and went to Esmark. Let's see how they enjoy it when the Igor and Sergei are getting all the PT and Johnny and Joey get to watch.

I can see why you would say that.  But no, not a parent.  I couldn't care less if that team didn't win a game.  Just my observation.  But go on, continue the accusations.  

2 hours ago, Duster19 said:

That 07 vengeance team will be interesting to watch.  The best players from last season left and went to Esmark.  So the vengeance added some A Major kids from foxes and NP instead.

Not to mention that it looks like they are under-rostered, if you look at the website.  4 D?  That's going to make it tough to win.  Unless you convert a forward.  But then you're still a player short with only 14 skaters.